Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Any news related to the CE movie as of yet? Or is that the 3rd series??

According to Celiss Galvea of the Gamefaqs boards (Code Geass spoilers lady), the movie was stuck in development hell with a (guess it) stalled script for long time. No clue if they've rectify it since then...

I guess Fukuda & Morosawa are indeed done as can be after this mess...

[Eidolon Sniper]

Oh crap. They better not pull a Destiny again or else...

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Um, did I say anything to that effect...?

That was precisely what you were implying. Whether Shinn had similar experiences to Kira is irrelevant since they responded to them in completely different ways. In fact, this entire comparison between Shinn and Kira is a bit of a red herring since they're so dissimilar to begin with.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Your tirade about liking or hating the character does not depend on how he ends up with or something. But still you provided Shinn and Kira comparison right after it by means of Shinn's "inability" to follow orders. Shinn's "inability" to follow orders makes him an unlikeable character, because he's such an ass, and so therefore it makes him unlikeable because that was the way he turned out at the end of Destiny. However, can you give an exact incident in Destiny where Shinn deliberately disobeyed an order? Except for the Stellar incident. Unless you're saying, of course, that Shinn's side comments to his superiors are meant to be that "inability" to follow orders.

My issue with Shinn has less to do with his ability to follow orders as it does with his insubordination. As for orders, Shinn exceeded his authority twice to my recollection: the first was to bust up the EA base against Athrun's order to return to Minerva, and the second was to attack Strike Rouge while Cagalli was making her speech.

I'm still not sure what you're trying to point to as a contradiction. Do you have any direct quotes?

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

What are we arguing about here anyway? How Kira and Shinn are different?

Nope. That argument was just about Shinn; it had nothing to do with Kira at all.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

How, exactly, is Shinn's ideals of trying to save other people from the war different from Kira or the entire Clyne Faction itself?

You're still missing the point; it isn't so much that their ideals are different, it's that Shinn acts without any significant introspection. Hence their actions are completely different.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Then, pray tell, can you tell me how cutting off the arm of an enemy soldier or anybody actually threatening your life makes it any different from killing that person to stop him from doing that to others?

You really can't tell the difference between damaging a machine and killing someone on purpose?

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

We actually tried giving our all, 4Tran, but it simply wasn't enough. We also have our own extremist woes here. And boy oh boy they weren't pleased when our President sent the medical team to Iraq. You could imagine the tension we had during that time. we simply do not have enough troops to deploy for the Iraq war, can't you understand that?

Tried giving it your all? Hah, try pulling the other one. It's extremely obvious to any observer that the Philippines sent their troops as a token gesture.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

The causes which they believed in. Also, buying peace with weapons really isn't a solution to the misunderstanding generated because of the very same methods. It is a quickie solution, which could erupt to war any time, because of the distrust that the winning side could have also fostered, maybe in some of their exploits, or whatever. Bringing it down with weapons could only aggravate the situation even more, and so another war ensues. They are just sending the people into a breaking point that could lead to a very devastating war that could not be solved anymore by scaring them to follow the ideals they have won the war with.

Bzzt. That's completely wrong. What you're describing is the way wars have ended from time immemorial. It's actually a realist's approach to warfare. While it may mean that further wars may break out in the future, that has always been a possibility, and only dreamers would believe otherwise.

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

The CE just made one side very good, in spite of lots of things which paint it as somehow like the bad guys themselves, and made all the bad people BAD.

The UC Gundam shows have always been like this as well.

[Neku]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

I wasn't adding that to Ledgem's statement. .______. It was MY Addition, arrogant = Ledgem statement. I mean, if Shinn was arrogant like he is right now in Destiny, he could have some awful "I am emo" personality quirks before Destiny happened, because people do not necessarily become that arrogant just because they want to. There is always a reason for that.

Originally Posted by Snipy in previous post

What made you think Shinn had an awful, arrogant personality before the war?

Right. I do not deny that you're definitely adding to Ledgem's words.
Snipy, I need to tell you that it is advisable to re-read what you have wrote, or a much better advice is that, it is always better to admit that you're wrong once in a while. You gain a little more respect from that.

Oh wow, when did people suddenly become thoughtless thinking of other people's safety first before their own needs...? It became complicated because Shinn was in the military at that time...

Ah. So that's what you meant.
But that doesn't move my view on how Shinn is thoughtless.
So, he thought of Stellar's safety. Yep. Only hers. He didn't bothered to think of the consequences. What consequences, I believe you know; it's in the series.

Yes, thanks to almighty Morosawa.

Mm, let's not bring in plot devices. The involvement of that can only mean that you win, yes. But not exactly through debating, is it?

Anyway, why are you ascribing everything I said to Ledgem's remarks? I am saying Shinn is an ass and Shinn is awful. So there. That Lunamaria bit was a tad bit overboard into making sure he gets on the CE hate list for all eternity. Can you connect how Shinn was at the beginning of Destiny into the way he turned out at its end? Ep 34 Shinn was the beginning of his end.

1. Well, because you were replying to Ledgem, were you not?
2. Ah, so it was you yourself who is the one who stated that Shinn is awful, and is an ass. I was confused because you were highlighting that of Ledgem's statement, and replacing his words with "ass".
3. I didn't think Fukuda wanted Shinn to have more anti-fans.
4. To answer your question, yes, I can. Shinn did not change from the beginning of Destiny, until towards the end; the final phase that he achieved a realization of things. Before that, we see the same old Shinn, only getting more and more arrogant.. and thoughtless, or should I say; thinking at his very own point of view.

Seriously though, Shinn didn't try to protect his friends cause he just "felt" like it, Shinn hurt those soldiers intentionally because he knew he had to save Stellar and that really called for drastic measures (they were determined to bring Stellar back to the PLANTs or some random research facility where she is going to be dissected or God knows what in order to find out how she "works"; Shinn was the only one who thought of Stellar as a human being aboard that ship who actually did something that was VERY wrong to save her), and Shinn's WTF Lunamaria moment was just something that the scriptwriter needed to do because really, the story became really fast paced at the end, and if they are going to paint Shinn as the loser that he really is, his "mind rape" by Dully and Rey should now show its true colors...

Mm, true in the case that he was protecting Stellar.
But I thought I was talking about how he intentionally hurt the ZAFT infantry, and how wanted to hurt Rey as well. Aren't ZAFT soldiers his comrades? Isn't Rey his friend? If his friend, in this case, Rey did not support him, then the statement about wanting to protect his friend is entirely gone, because we all know that Shinn was protecting his lover.

Ah, if you bring in the scriptwriter, I can say I gladly admit defeat, because there's no way I can debate over a scriptwriter's needs.

Thanks to Morosawa's magical pen yes that was WHAT actually happened.

Thank you. So you do not deny that Shinn indeed went out of his mind and whatever I said after that. That is sufficient.

Then, pray tell, can you tell me how cutting off the arm of an enemy soldier or anybody actually threatening your life makes it any different from killing that person to stop him from doing that to others? Cutting off a limb, disabling him by severing nerve connections or whatever = maybe right because he was really threatening you and you defended yourself. But how about that person? You forcibly push that person to depend on others for his livelihood. He wouldn't be able to feed his family, or attend to the needs of his children, depending on the maim that he received. It's even worse than death. Because his body parts suddenly lost one or two or three, his entire future is already jeopardized. And how can you explain to children who depend on him, or are also still getting maimed by mines all around the world that? You are not the one who lost a limb. You are not the one who now has to depend on others for your livelihood. There are people who actually saw the light at the end of that hellish tunnel and lived contentedly in spite of what happened, but still, there are people who just stayed in the darkness forever. The point is, both methods are either right or wrong in some aspects, and war certainly is the place for them. But in a war, morality is shot, what other people believe on one side is right to them, as what other people on the opposite side also believe. War simply is stating the obvious: the one who wins the war usually feel that they are the right people in the war, and so their ideals prevail. But of course, you really cannot prevent other people from thinking otherwise, because that is their right.

You didn't have to type so long.
All you have to say is, you agree with winter45 except you are twisting it a little and adding a lot more.
Mm, this point of yours would be useful if Kira is really disabling someone by cutting off his arm. But he isn't, is he? Instead, it is a mobile suit's arm he chopped off. Please differentiate between mecha and human.

*coughMWUcough*

Ah. That is why I stated "after the airing of Destiny".
At times you need to read what you've stated, what you are replying to and what that person is replying to.

[lubczyk]

I believe it'd be best to let sleeping dogs lie in regards to the Cosmic Ear.

In other words, they shouldn't pursue in making any more adaptations of the series.

I don't think its ideas can be salvaged after Destiny.

The first was good but it and Destiny seemed to follow too many cliches from the original CCA Gundam (Colony Drop, Destroy like robot in the CCA timeline, RX-78 tributes, Zaku tributes, et cetera).

I'm hoping that Gundam 00 treads its own path in regards to stroytelling and plot.

I don't want to continuously be reminded of CCA Gundam when watching the AU shows.

[hhahaha2]

What would be the most random send-off for the CE Kira & Athrun generation?


[Kira and his "Enduring Freedom" grabs Athrun's crippled MS and watch helplessly as all PLANTs fall to Earth]

Athrun:Behold Kira, soon everyone in the CE universe will be dead, Mitsuo will be forced to quit the Gundam Franchise and let the AD universe pave over every trace of this crap series that has stained Tomino's sacred work

Kira: Are you out of your mind? those Celestial Beings characters look even more.. sexually ambiguous than us! their Gundams leave fairy dust FOR GOD'S SAKE 'FAIRY DUST'!

Athrun: At least their new protagonist doesn't cry every 2nd episode, the test of manhood comes from the heart, it doesn't matter if they are drawn by Yun Koga's design. I thought you are more broad minded than that Kira

[Kira enters SEED mode]

Kira: Manhood huh? what's that, not laying a hand on your sexy former fiancee, you call yourself a man?!

[Athrun enters SEED mode]

Athrun: Lacus was a woman who may have very well become a mother to me, so don't you dare judge me!

Kira: Lacus..your mother?? [Kira explode]

Kira turns into a gigantic tree like entity that takes root on Earth, it's branches swallow up the PLANTs

[Closing Credits]
Beyond the Time: The Endless Moebius

Shinn: I DIDN'T GET A PART IN THIS FILM! aHHHHHHAHHHH!

Lunamaria: There there Shinn..

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by hhahaha2

What would be the most random send-off for the CE Kira & Athrun generation?


[Kira and his "Enduring Freedom" grabs Athrun's crippled MS and watch helplessly as all PLANTs fall to Earth]

Athrun:Behold Kira, soon everyone in the CE universe will be dead, Mitsuo will be forced to quit the Gundam Franchise and let the AD universe pave over every trace of this crap series that has stained Tomino's sacred work

Kira: Are you out of your mind? those Celestial Beings characters look even more.. sexually ambiguous than us! their Gundams leave fairy dust FOR GOD'S SAKE 'FAIRY DUST'!

Athrun: At least their new protagonist doesn't cry every 2nd episode, the test of manhood comes from the heart, it doesn't matter if they are drawn by Yun Koga's design. I thought you are more broad minded than that Kira

[Kira enters SEED mode]

Kira: Manhood huh? what's that, not laying a hand on your sexy former fiancee, you call yourself a man?!

[Athrun enters SEED mode]

Athrun: Lacus was a woman who may have very well become a mother to me, so don't you dare judge me!

Kira: Lacus..your mother?? [Kira explode]

Kira turns into a gigantic tree like entity that takes root on Earth, it's branches swallow up the PLANTs

[Closing Credits]
Beyond the Time: The Endless Moebius

Shinn: I DIDN'T GET A PART IN THIS FILM! aHHHHHHAHHHH!

Lunamaria: There there Shinn..

are you kidding me?

over my corpse body besides there could be GS spinoffs or mini GS the series or else a new generation of GS with new characters & guess appearance of the old GS.

[RavenHawk]

Originally Posted by hhahaha2

What would be the most random send-off for the CE Kira & Athrun generation?


[Kira and his "Enduring Freedom" grabs Athrun's crippled MS and watch helplessly as all PLANTs fall to Earth]

Athrun:Behold Kira, soon everyone in the CE universe will be dead, Mitsuo will be forced to quit the Gundam Franchise and let the AD universe pave over every trace of this crap series that has stained Tomino's sacred work

Kira: Are you out of your mind? those Celestial Beings characters look even more.. sexually ambiguous than us! their Gundams leave fairy dust FOR GOD'S SAKE 'FAIRY DUST'!

Athrun: At least their new protagonist doesn't cry every 2nd episode, the test of manhood comes from the heart, it doesn't matter if they are drawn by Yun Koga's design. I thought you are more broad minded than that Kira

[Kira enters SEED mode]

Kira: Manhood huh? what's that, not laying a hand on your sexy former fiancee, you call yourself a man?!

[Athrun enters SEED mode]

Athrun: Lacus was a woman who may have very well become a mother to me, so don't you dare judge me!

Kira: Lacus..your mother?? [Kira explode]

Kira turns into a gigantic tree like entity that takes root on Earth, it's branches swallow up the PLANTs

[Closing Credits]
Beyond the Time: The Endless Moebius

Shinn: I DIDN'T GET A PART IN THIS FILM! aHHHHHHAHHHH!

Lunamaria: There there Shinn..

Holy... I guess they couldn't handle it eh?

[D-KLAC]

maybe GS fans should do something to help GS by either going to japan for request of season or any GS ideas cause the GS still got something to show.

[cyoti]

Originally Posted by brightman

According to Celiss Galvea of the Gamefaqs boards (Code Geass spoilers lady), the movie was stuck in development hell with a (guess it) stalled script for long time.

Wasn't the delays in scripts, one of the primary reasons we had so many clip shows in GSD?

[brightman]

Originally Posted by cyoti

Wasn't the delays in scripts, one of the primary reasons we had so many clip shows in GSD?

Yes, thats why its really no surprise that Morosawa's doing it again...

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by brightman

According to Celiss Galvea of the Gamefaqs boards (Code Geass spoilers lady), the movie was stuck in development hell with a (guess it) stalled script for long time. No clue if they've rectify it since then...

I guess Fukuda & Morosawa are indeed done as can be after this mess...

When was that anyway? (( the script problem ))

~~~

Speaking of them, are Fukuda/Morosawa even involved in the production of the GPX Cyber Formula : Road to Infinity series? Or are those games strictly Sunrise Interactive without any creative input from the original creators?

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

When was that anyway? (( the script problem ))

"A while ago", or so she said...

Speaking of them, are Fukuda/Morosawa even involved in the production of the GPX Cyber Formula : Road to Infinity series? Or are those games strictly Sunrise Interactive without any creative input from the original creators?

They're developed by HitMaker, actually. No clue about your questions though.

[kiramuro]

Originally Posted by brightman

Yes, thats why its really no surprise that Morosawa's doing it again...

Raise middle finger to Morosawa.

While petitions are always useless I feel in this case it's necessary as the Seed or rather the Yamato Trilogy needs to completed. We had The Yamato Identify and The Yamato Supremacy. Now all we need is The Yamato Ultimatum.

[Spitfire]

In all honesty, I hope the seed movie gets canned. I really don't want to see more of the seed cast. They had their time to shine, and it was wasted on horrible plot and character development. I don't see the movie being any better than the series. In fact, I see it being worse.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

In all honesty, I hope the seed movie gets canned. I really don't want to see more of the seed cast. They had their time to shine, and it was wasted on horrible plot and character development. I don't see the movie being any better than the series. In fact, I see it being worse.

Well it's not like the CE can do anything to save the legacy of this work creatively anyways...So when this retarded script comes to frution, the lovers will love and the critics will tear it to shreds and we'll all watch like when a pick-up truck turns over on the bridge...

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

In all honesty, I hope the seed movie gets canned. I really don't want to see more of the seed cast. They had their time to shine, and it was wasted on horrible plot and character development. I don't see the movie being any better than the series. In fact, I see it being worse.

over my corpse body!!!

besides it will come in 08 then i'll play my "cards" for GS's next chapter era cause i will take over GS.

[Pride]

Originally Posted by hhahaha2

Shinn: I DIDN'T GET A PART IN THIS FILM! aHHHHHHAHHHH!

Lol, didn't I hear this from Ryutaros in one of the Kamen Rider Den-O before?

[tetsuo69]

i just hope the movie comes out soon, 00 is worst than destiny XD

[Eidolon Sniper]

I just seriously hope that if ever the movie came along, the CE would be closed and done well. Also, saying a series is crap after just a few episodes is just so....