(L) Sword Art Online - Light Novel Discussion

[Javiersansano]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

We have a thread for such theories, and I'd recommend reading the whole thing if you have any questions/theories.

That crossover didn't involve time travel, but the changing of universes, or something along those lines.

She could be, but..

Spoilers

Spoiler for Accel World V12

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Originally Posted by Darkonus

Does anyone else think that, after I was reading the Accel World cross over that Kirito is behind the Brain Burst program, since Accel World is about 20 years in the future from SAO its possible. Also Kuroyukihime I think is his daughter since she looks so much like him and Asuna.

I seriously can't imagine Kirito and Asuna failing as parents, and raising their girls to be like they are

[Ray]

Originally Posted by Javiersansano

I seriously can't imagine Kirito and Asuna failing as parents, and raising their girls to be like they are

That's because they don't, and KYH isn't their child. Yui is their child. ;p

[johan8989]

Originally Posted by Ygard

cradle of the moon being in-between the end of alicization and the post-prologue : it happens at the start of the 200 years thingy
A period of time where he can put as many side-stories as he want ...

Kirito is there 200 years (UW)? is would be months in the real world: S not see asuna again?

If so, where have you read that? not even out volume 11 and you can tell me if there are spoilers, where I can read?

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by Gearhead

Spoiler for Alicization Stuff:

Underworld isn't a utopia where nobody ever hurts anyone else. If anything, it seems to have spawned an upper class/caste of lawyers.

"isn't" is different from "was supposed to".

[Divini]

I was wondering, is the UW also a 'death game' for those that dived through the STL from the outside world?

[sky black swordman]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

That's because they don't, and KYH isn't their child. Yui is their child. ;p

Yeah she is and the only one. For now.

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by tomtkp

And about my opinion of some of the responses of web Chapter 5:

Spoiler for Personal opinion:

I see that some not really fond of Kawahara using rape or NTR scenes "to advance the plot". Whether you hate rape/NTR scenes or not, it's up to you. But what is the purpose of Kawahara setting up rape scenes? In the case of Alicization Chapter 5, I don't think he merely set up the rape scene just for plot device to provoke the readers. I admit that it might be one of his purposes but I don't think it's his sole purpose. Whether you want to admit or not, this incident somehow reflects our real world a bit. No matter how much we hate someone rapes another, raping still happens anywhere in our world and it doesn't seem that the law is protecting the rape victims and the whistleblowers, at least in my country. In my country, someone (now a political figure) was jailed for standing up for a rape victim by a political leader in the late 90s. And recently two bastards were released by the court, not need to serve any sentence for their crimes. If that happened in my country, why not in Underworld? I believe what Kawahara wanted to show us was that the law in Understand really has serious flaws.

Spoiler for response - also personal opinion:

Reflecting the real world is one thing, but surely for a 'normal' Japanese person (ie, Kirito) they aren't be involved in rape-related cases a lot of the time unless they're a counselor or something. SAO have Asuna attempted rape by Sugou, GGO with Sinon, and now Alicization with these two squires. Or the world/Japan really do suck that bad and I'm one of the lucky/ignorant ones that doesn't know that. It's not a matter of whether it happens, but how often this plot device is used. It's supposed to be a powerful tool that brings emotion, but over-using it is like it cheapens suffering and make it seem like this is all what the author knows to pull out. If this case in Alicization was the first case of rape in SAO plotline then I'd be more tolerant of it being used for plot, but after the depiction or possibility of it in multiple arcs in this series I'm not as tolerant of this anymore. Murder, torture and death is one thing, but rape in stories is just not cool. (Then again, I could just be blinded by tropes...)

Alternatively, I don't like reading about rape: we get enough of that $h1t in real life, I'd prefer it if it does not show up in stories I read in my off-time. Just personal preference here, I'm not saying rape occurring in stories automatically makes it bad, it's just not my taste.

[Chaos2Frozen]

^
erm yeah... about that... don't you find it abit weird that you're okay with murder and torture when they are all equally horrific things?

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

^
erm yeah... about that... don't you find it abit weird that you're okay with murder and torture when they are all equally horrific things?

In terms of fiction, I should add for my opinion. (not that I'd do any of those stuff I mentioned IRL)

Spoiler for discussion:

maybe it's about the violation part. If someone dies then that's it. Torture, which I used as a synonym for pain, is pretty much standard Shounen plot that can be overcome if given enough GAR/awesome. Both death and pain is something that's mostly only physical, but rape can impact the mind more given the Western context/setting (that I was brought up in). I've had this anthropology class once where a case study of a group of women in the Philippines and one of them had a intruder at night, was found out and he escaped. When these woman was talking about the possibility of rape they laughed it off, saying it was just a p**is. They cared about compensation for breaking and entering, but sexual assault wasn't something they saw as horrific as someone in the US might see it as.

tl;dr - probably a different set of cultural values.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by Flere821

...but surely for a 'normal' Japanese person (ie, Kirito) they aren't be involved in rape-related cases a lot of the time unless they're a counselor or something...
Or the world/Japan really do suck that bad and I'm one of the lucky/ignorant ones that doesn't know that.

You(and many people tbh) greatly underestimate the rate of sexual assaults in the world. For example, one in four, that's 25% of women in the US are victims of sexual assaults or attempted sexual assaults by the time they're in college.

This is not even taking into account of how many cases goes unreported, which is significant, especially in cases of rape.

Now take Japan, which on the surface appear to have a much lower reported rate, but it's just a sham as the social stigma and unsympathetic criminal justice system, and a culture that's still predominately patriarchal, means that even fewer victims bothers to report due to the futility and fear of reprisal.

Now it's not as bad as some middle eastern countries where the rape victims actually get executed for being raped, but there's still very much a blame-the-victim mentality there.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

^
erm yeah... about that... don't you find it abit weird that you're okay with murder and torture when they are all equally horrific things?

No kidding

Originally Posted by Flere821

Both death and pain is something that's mostly only physical, but rape can impact the mind more given the Western context/setting (that I was brought up in).

All I can say for that is that it just means you haven't really seen death and suffering.

[Andrewthelord]

Originally Posted by Ygard

Spoiler for After the end of alicization:

I don't think the story will continue after alicization. mainly because the real world after the end will be too ... strange to write about.

The only story left to write at the end on alicization would have to be about the fluctlights coming to the real world, and that does not really follow Kawahara's style of stories.
Also because, in the UW, it would be a story about starships and not about swords

If you want more stories, however, I think he will continue and finish "cradle of the moon" in book version after the end of alicization.

Spoiler for after the end of alicization:

cradle of the moon being in-between the end of alicization and the post-prologue : it happens at the start of the 200 years thingy
A period of time where he can put as many side-stories as he want ...

I only read the novels, so i don't know anything about the webstories. That was only my supposition.

It's obvious that the techology in Aliciziation arc is the same that will make possible of Burst Linkers to accelerate.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Flere821

In terms of fiction, I should add for my opinion. (not that I'd do any of those stuff I mentioned IRL)

Spoiler for discussion:

maybe it's about the violation part. If someone dies then that's it. Torture, which I used as a synonym for pain, is pretty much standard Shounen plot that can be overcome if given enough GAR/awesome. Both death and pain is something that's mostly only physical, but rape can impact the mind more given the Western context/setting (that I was brought up in). I've had this anthropology class once where a case study of a group of women in the Philippines and one of them had a intruder at night, was found out and he escaped. When these woman was talking about the possibility of rape they laughed it off, saying it was just a p**is. They cared about compensation for breaking and entering, but sexual assault wasn't something they saw as horrific as someone in the US might see it as.

tl;dr - probably a different set of cultural values.

Sure, In terms of fiction of course.

Spoiler:

Let me ask you this though, when you see/read a character dies do you go "well at least he wasn't raped..."? Likewise if the character was tortured with whips and sharp knives I'm sure you wouldn't think "well at least they didn't touch his ass..."

In the end when it comes to fiction it's all about exposure; the line between what is acceptable individually simply comes down to 'getting used to it'... And believe me, people can get used to things very quickly. I'm sure there are arguments for why rape is preferred over death or even drug addiction by those that are conditioned by it.... I mean through stories of course.

(Also, all of these things can inflict mental trauma just as effective as rape.... )

Anyway my point isn't that rape is nothing to fuss about, quite the opposite actually, it's that let's not pretend it's any different or 'cheaper' from all the other horrors that could have been inflicted on a character.

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Sure, In terms of fiction of course.

Spoiler:

Let me ask you this though, when you see/read a character dies do you go "well at least he wasn't raped..."? Likewise if the character was tortured with whips and sharp knives I'm sure you wouldn't think "well at least they didn't touch his ass..."

In the end when it comes to fiction it's all about exposure; the line between what is acceptable individually simply comes down to 'getting used to it'... And believe me, people can get used to things very quickly. I'm sure there are arguments for why rape is preferred over death or even drug addiction by those that are conditioned by it.... I mean through stories of course.

(Also, all of these things can inflict mental trauma just as effective as rape.... )

Anyway my point isn't that rape is nothing to fuss about, quite the opposite actually, it's that let's not pretend it's any different or 'cheaper' from all the other horrors that could have been inflicted on a character.

Spoiler:

Death is the Lesser of Two Evil, and I wouldn't wish death or rape on any character. So you're right, I wouldn't go "well at least he wasn't >insert action here<". I stand by my point of of rape being different to death though, even if it's not cheaper. different =/= better or worse.

While you brought up the topic of drugs, I'd class that under the same as rape too. My view is that "(physical + psychological/emotional torment) > only physical or psychological/emotional torment". Rape would fall in the former while death/pain would fall in the latter.

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Flere821

In terms of fiction, I should add for my opinion. (not that I'd do any of those stuff I mentioned IRL)

Spoiler for discussion:

maybe it's about the violation part. If someone dies then that's it. Torture, which I used as a synonym for pain, is pretty much standard Shounen plot that can be overcome if given enough GAR/awesome. Both death and pain is something that's mostly only physical, but rape can impact the mind more given the Western context/setting (that I was brought up in). I've had this anthropology class once where a case study of a group of women in the Philippines and one of them had a intruder at night, was found out and he escaped. When these woman was talking about the possibility of rape they laughed it off, saying it was just a p**is. They cared about compensation for breaking and entering, but sexual assault wasn't something they saw as horrific as someone in the US might see it as.

tl;dr - probably a different set of cultural values.

I find your post a bit scary in a way.

Spoiler for reply:

I see this as a bit of an extension of the entire falacy of sex being more dangerous to children then violence and death in media. Just because you have been desensitized by seeing death and torture so doesn't that mean that they are minor things. The entire idea behind torture is to break someones mind. Even a normal accident that causes permanent physical damage will often cause mental trauma.

How the side effects of violence and torture are downplayed in anime (or other media) is as bad as many hentai anime showing rape as something the victim actually enjoys. Both reduce the 'evil' of the acts and thus makes it easier for people to commit them.

[Kazu-kun]

Well, as Flere821 said in a post above, the issue isn't so much the use of this trope but the abuse of it.

Spoiler:

There's no doubt people's emotional respond to this particular trope is very strong, and that makes for a pretty effective plot device. All that is true.

On the other hand, if you use it repeatedly, it makes it seem like you're being lazy and/or lacking on creativity to think alternative ways to get strong reactions from your audience. This abuse also cheapens your plot device to the point your audience might not take it seriously anymore.

Overall, I think moderation is key when dealing with strong (emotionally speaking) plot devices.

The argument is moot though. We'll see what happens in volume 11.

[Freya]

Omg just finished up to where Kirito saves Asuna in ALO and etc. Such amazing story.

[Jmac]

So I decided to start reading the novels a couple of days ago; I was debating weather to read the vol 2 side stories or skip them because I've already seen the anime. Good thing I decided to read them regardless because there was a lot of monologue left out and the ending to Liz's story was awe inspiring. So I've read two volumes in days and I'm really enjoying the story. On to vol 3!

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Jmac

So I decided to start reading the novels a couple of days ago; I was debating weather to read the vol 2 side stories or skip them because I've already seen the anime. Good thing I decided to read them regardless because there was a lot of monologue left out and the ending to Liz's story was awe inspiring. So I've read two volumes in days and I'm really enjoying the story. On to vol 3!

It's true for most novels made into anime, but for sure in this case so is there alot more to the story if you read the novels then just from watching the anime.

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by Znail

It's true for most novels made into anime, but for sure in this case so is there alot more to the story if you read the novels then just from watching the anime.

A good habit for me is to actually read the LN as I watch anime.

Keeps the details between both the anime ver and LN ver quite fresh for me.

[Ghanw]

Usually reading the LN first is better due to the detail, but animes are always good in its own way, either way is fine but LN first is better. So vol 11 is coming out in December, cant wait.