Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Frostfire

Is it fate when I do it on purpose?

You act like you had any choice in the matter Oedipus

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by yvj

You act like you had any choice in the matter Oedipus

Touche. Touche.

(Un)Fairly speaking, though, I think it was a fairly accurate example, just replace Conan with raving-war-lunatic A.

[konart]

can anyone tell me wtf is this?

Spoiler for pic:

and, no, I don't believe it's somehow connected to any official information.

[Levy]

Mh... gotta check back all R2 episodes soon to see with my eyes how much evilness Gino show and how (if) it's counterbalanced with some human compassion. I kinda remember him calming down Anya about unnecessary use of force, but it could easily been a fake memory.

anyway, I agree with the fact that no matter how Gino might be ruthless in the battelfield, he's not the same as that pshycopath of Luciano, and I find the latter way more disturbing.

On a general level, I feel there's a bit of confusion between 'racism' and 'nationalism'. It's not the same thing. Some Britannians might come off as racist because the only nation they are shown to deal with are from a different ethnic group - and the majority of them actually are - but this is not the case for everyone.
Nina is racist; the random nobleman Lelouch pwns at chess are, the students Suzaku kicks are....Villeta was, but facts proved her wrong =P
Leving aside the rest of the student council and Euphie, Lloyd and Cécile are not, altough being nationalists. Guilford is not, too, he praised the value of japanese fighters in the battle of Narita against JLF.
S1 Cornelia is a mix of the two, I guess, but Schneizel isn't strictly racist, he approved of Euphie's ideas and organized a marriage between his brother and the chinese empress. He had his politicall convenience, but this is not something that a racist fanatic will bring up.


Also, Frosty-dear, you have not given me your opininon on Jeremiah yet, and I'm waiting for it... =)

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by Levy

Mh... gotta check back all R2 episodes soon to see with my eyes how much evilness Gino show and how (if) it's counterbalanced with some human compassion. I kinda remember him calming down Anya about unnecessary use of force, but it could easily been a fake memory.

I remember him making an off comment like "woo" when Anya blows up one of the Britannian ships to keep it from sinking Nunally's main ship. Beyond that though, I don't remember much else from him that is passive.

Originally Posted by Levy

On a general level, I feel there's a bit of confusion between 'racism' and 'nationalism'.

I think we covered this a while ago, because its not nationalism that Britannians (Gino, Cornelia, etc) show off, its fascist nationalism. Its an extreme where any and all opposition to the government is "removed". Fascist nationalism and racism are not that far apart, fascism just isn't specificly targetting any group other than people who don't agree with you.

Originally Posted by Levy

Also, Frosty-dear, you have not given me your opininon on Jeremiah yet, and I'm waiting for it... =)

Good call. Jeremiah is a mixed bag, his actions are all based on his sense of loyalty which makes him quite the loon as all his actions would be arbitrary. He is also someone who is close to being an ideal soldier but he's also off his rocker with how his legiances are formed. He's not nearly as bad as Luciano, I'd also actually say that he's a better person/robot than Gino. Even in his darker days back in S1 when he was a purist he didn't look for excuses to kill Elevens, at least not hundreds of thousands of them. His history as a purist and soldier is also more pitiable (as in there is one) unlike the other two knights in blood stained armor.

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by konart

can anyone tell me wtf is this?

Spoiler for pic:

and, no, I don't believe it's somehow connected to any official information.

It's just a doujin anthology...

[bladeofdarkness]

Orenge was just as bad as any other britannian in season 1
he viewed killing them as fun (to the point of turning down a chance to pilot the lancelot for a chance to have some "fun")
and after clovis died he wanted to use it as an excuse to crack down on the elevens in the army and make it so that only britaninas can be part of it (which is why he sets suzaku up to take the fall)
he only LATER got some background history becouse he proved so popular
at first he was just a racist ass-hole
most britannians have been shown in such a way during the first stages of the show
thats why suzaku is shown as such a contradictory character in season 1
he is much more "heroic" then lelouch
but since the side he is fighting on is shown to be the more "evil" one (a racist occupation army that has no problem killing men women and children)
he is basiclly the "hero" of the evil team

[Levy]

Originally Posted by Frostfire

I remember him making an off comment like "woo" when Anya blows up one of the Britannian ships to keep it from sinking Nunally's main ship. Beyond that though, I don't remember much else from him that is passive.

...the sorta-flashbacks I have are from the episode in wich they enter the Governor Palace in Tokyo and from the episode in wich Suzaku is shown fighting in AEU, but I don't have the episodes at hand now - gotta check it back later.

I think we covered this a while ago, because its not nationalism that Britannians (Gino, Cornelia, etc) show off, its fascist nationalism. Its an extreme where any and all opposition to the government is "removed". Fascist nationalism and racism are not that far apart, fascism just isn't specificly targetting any group other than people who don't agree with you.

Of course, they are not that far apart, and I, as an italian, know that sadly well. But they are not necessary the same thing, so, claiming that a character that has shown to support the nationalism of his country is also a racist is not that correct, in my opinion, moreover when we have character in the show like the aforementioned that contraddict this equation.

Good call. Jeremiah is a mixed bag, his actions are all based on his sense of loyalty which makes him quite the loon as all his actions would be arbitrary. He is also someone who is close to being an ideal soldier but he's also off his rocker with how his legiances are formed. He's not nearly as bad as Luciano, I'd also actually say that he's a better person/robot than Gino. Even in his darker days back in S1 when he was a purist he didn't look for excuses to kill Elevens, at least not hundreds of thousands of them. His history as a purist and soldier is also more pitiable (as in there is one) unlike the other two knights in blood stained armor.

Mh... so your appreciation of Jeremiah roots in the fact that his loyalty is embodied by people rather than a vague idea of nation...?
Is it the path of knighthood that makes Jeremiah better than Gino?
I don't know, I fail to see the real difference between them, if anything, Jeremiah is also a declared racist and greedy for power in s1.
Gino's unawareness doesn't make him less guilty, but, at least for me, not even Jeremiah's loyalty makes his faults less.

another question, to everybody now... do you think that Jeremiah deserved to pay/die in the end?

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by Levy

...the sorta-flashbacks I have are from the episode in wich they enter the Governor Palace in Tokyo and from the episode in wich Suzaku is shown fighting in AEU, but I don't have the episodes at hand now - gotta check it back later.

All I remember from that episode was that Gino was about to kill some Glaston Knights had Suzaku not told him to stop.

Originally Posted by Levy

Of course, they are not that far apart, and I, as an italian, know that sadly well. But they are not necessary the same thing, so, claiming that a character that has shown to support the nationalism of his country is also a racist is not that correct, in my opinion, moreover when we have character in the show like the aforementioned that contraddict this equation.

Gino certainly doesn't contradict the equation, and I never said fascism = racism, but that they are very close to one another. Gino, quite easily, fits the bill for both. He dismisses the Japanese (Elevens) as inferior to the Britannians to Kallen's face. He also dismisses the Chinese people for stopping his fun, though this latter one I may be mixing up.

His extreme fascism is well enough evidant in his ideas for how to quell an uprising, his racism is underlined in his speach and mannerisms.

Originally Posted by Levy

Mh... so your appreciation of Jeremiah roots in the fact that his loyalty is embodied by people rather than a vague idea of nation...?
Is it the path of knighthood that makes Jeremiah better than Gino?
I don't know, I fail to see the real difference between them, if anything, Jeremiah is also a declared racist and greedy for power in s1.
Gino's unawareness doesn't make him less guilty, but, at least for me, not even Jeremiah's loyalty makes his faults less.

another question, to everybody now... do you think that Jeremiah deserved to pay/die in the end?

Actually, I don't like Jeremiah all that much, I think he's just as insane as the rest of the lot. He's just got a background that explains his lunacy, not that it excuses it. Jeremiah is 'better' than Gino because Jeremiah doesn't suggest killing hundreds of thousands, though he is shown to enjoy killing the Elevens but we know that this is out of hatred for the death of Lelouch and Nunally, not nationalism or racism. It is both worse and better at the same time. It is a personal ambition on personal reasons.

Gino has no shown desire of power because he is a KoR but to have reached that position he would have needed to have a desire for it. You are not just promoted without choice, people desire to rise in the ranks and those at the top are the most fueled by their ambitions.

I would say at best they are comparable trash, both being 'evil' men. They aren't really that different in their loyalties but Gino I can argue is easily much more on the extreme.

I wouldn't say Jeremiah got a happy ending, despite the wtfery of Anya being with him and at the wedding, he seems to be living in exile.

[Charred Knight]

I have just thought up a theory, and I want your opinion on it

Code Geass R2 is secretly a gag series. After the Time slot change forced them to restart everything the pissed off staff rewrote the entire thing as a comedy, with every dramatic moment being ruined by someone making a comedic face.

Look at the scene where C.C gets her code, in a straight dramatic series, the Nun would make a sad face, and C.C's clothes would be covered in blood.

In this series the Nun is making a hilariously stupid face http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/ima...ssR2_15_07.jpg, and C.C is naked for no apparent reason.

As a dramatic series Code Geass R2 is a huge drop in quality with frequent scenes of unintentional comedy constantly getting in the way of what could be sad scenes. As a comedy, R2 is the equal to South Park, and is probably one of the greatest comedies in anime history.

[bladeofdarkness]

the nun screwed C.C over
so she was mocking her
and C.C was naked BEFORE the code exchange

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

the nun screwed C.C over
so she was mocking her
and C.C was naked BEFORE the code exchange

The question is why was C.C naked in the first place.

I mean look this thing is almost a constant in R2, where characters make stupid faces, the tv series version of Lelouch after the FLEIJA destroys most of Tokyo is one as well.

[Nobodyman9]

So R2 was just one big sick joke?

Hmm, yeah I can see that.

[SonOfHeaven]

In terms of characters just being there mostly for no reason. Gino, Anya and Kannon take the cake. I guess the point for Gino was to say to an unconscious Kallen that she won the fight(He could said something more meaningful btw). Anya in my opinion was boring for the entire show(Only purpose for her character came in regards to Marianne). Kannon.......no comment.

Seemed like the only existed to satisfy certain fandoms(nothing but fanservice characters). They probably should have developed Gino and Anya together. Since they seemed close but that didn't happened.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

In terms of characters just being there mostly for no reason. Gino, Anya and Kannon take the cake. I guess the point for Gino was to say to an unconscious Kallen that she won the fight(He could said something more meaningful btw). Anya in my opinion was boring for the entire show(Only purpose for her character came in regards to Marianne). Kannon.......no comment.

Seemed like the only existed to satisfy certain fandoms(nothing but fanservice characters). They probably should have developed Gino and Anya together. Since they seemed close but that didn't happened.

Actually, to catch her, to be more accurate. {and did you really expect him to say something meaningful? there would be a mess now. lol}
Anya, was the Marinanne-device, so i suppose she had a certain role while Kannon, god, NO COMMENT there, srsly. {squeeee Nina totally out of the alien blue}

[SonOfHeaven]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Actually, to catch her, to be more accurate. {and did you really expect him to say something meaningful? there would be a mess now. lol}
Anya, was the Marinanne-device, so i suppose she had a certain role while Kannon, god, NO COMMENT there, srsly. {squeeee Nina totally out of the alien blue}

About Gino, not really. I just thought him saying that she won the fight was pointless to mention. Maybe something about Suzaku for example.

Speaking of which, does anyone actually like Kannon as an character? Just wondering.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

About Gino, not really. I just thought him saying that she won the fight was pointless to mention. Maybe something about Suzaku for example.

Speaking of which, does anyone actually like Kannon as an character? Just wondering.

I meant it, both ways actually. 8D

What character? Was there a chara developed? I just saw a pretty-face-man, with a name "Kannon" Epitome of the fanservice, you have no idea. lol

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by SonOfHeaven

About Gino, not really. I just thought him saying that she won the fight was pointless to mention. Maybe something about Suzaku for example.

Speaking of which, does anyone actually like Kannon as an character? Just wondering.

Gino's purpose in the show was simple. To be a pretty faced conundrun of inconsistencies and pointlessness. If you compare him, and any of the KoR, to historical representations, they are Hitler's Schutzstaffel. Charles' Knights of the Round = Hitler's Schutzstaffel. They are thematically identical and are used for the exact same purposes. They are an elite, fanatically loyal force used to oppress and control those who do not fit within the accepted of the Empire. No level of ignorance or "lack of experience with the outside world" (retarded character endings not withstanding) can clear these people's records of the crimes they commited.

I think, if anything, they were originally intended to be evil villains to be beaten by Lelouch, and for the majority of the show that is exactly what they were. Gino is initially bortrayed as nothing short of a warmonger who smiles for genocide, Anya is a cold blooded, emotionless killer, Luciano is a loon, Bismark is a warmachine, and the others had no character depth at all. But, somewhere around Turn 20 that went out the window. Anya and Gino's characters seem to be completely new characters, who's crimes everyone completely ignores. The most ironic of them all is Gino's, though, since by Turn 25 he is back to saying that he wants his fascist regime back in power, rendering any "contemplation" he may have had pointless or... designed to show just how much of a bigot and fascist he himself is.

Suffice to say, the only "real" ending Gino or Anya deserved was an execution, but that can be said for quite a few characters.

[Levy]

........chill down man, Code Geass was never this deep show... really.

or, if this was the hidden message the authors really need to give us, they failed big deal!

[Frostfire]

Originally Posted by Levy

........chill down man, Code Geass was never this deep show... really.

or, if this was the hidden message the authors really need to give us, they failed big deal!

I went on a tyrade, my apologize. Though, its not like I am pulling this out of thin air.

And you have to question the point of Gino's talk with Kallen if two episodes later, he goes ahead and says he wants his old empire back. It amounts to "let me think about it, maybe... nope, I am a fascist bigot."