ACTA : Why it should not pass

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by Jinto

You cannot connect to these sites without your ISP.

The ISPs are not complicit in this scenario. If anything, ISPs are even more anti-ACTA, because the law would put very unpleasant duties on them.

Or WHOIS databases, it doesn't matter... fact is, that this information is already used for filtering.

No, WHOIS databases are something else. They only list the people and organizations responsible for networks, domains and the likes. This however does not give any information about the physical location of them.

The correct term are geotargeting databases, offered by geotargeting service providers.

That reminds me of the suppliers of electric energy in Germany. Technically there is a market where energy could be brokered in fair conditions for the end user. But since the providers became too big and too few, they can dictate the prices. I am not so optimistic that internet cartels can be prevented on the long run. The internet infrastructure is very expensive (especially the last mile - ISP) and therefore a target for big money business.

This situation is not comparable. In your scenario, the power companies are the ones who have the interest to control conditions. In the internet scenario, this is the LAST thing the ISPs want.

The problem is not the ISPs, it is the corporatist government that is trying to coerce the ISPs against their will. It's the opposite of what you describe.

[synaesthetic]

Someone needs to hit the universe reset button, I'm agreeing with Mentar again.

[TigerII]

Originally Posted by Hooves

The U.S Anime fan-base might shrink thats for sure. But worldwide... Your just being silly

ACTA is also being signed by Canada, the EU, Australia, South Korea, Singapore, Australia, Switzerland, Mexico, and Morocco. That covers pretty much the English speaking world and a sizable portion of anime fan in others.

ACTA is the one that removes rights, such as a warrant needed for personal information.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Internet regulation and censorship is the worst idea since Spam in a can.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Internet regulation and censorship is the worst idea since Spam in a can.

That is the best phrase ever

ACTA is also being signed by Canada, the EU, Australia, South Korea, Singapore, Australia, Switzerland, Mexico, and Morocco. That covers pretty much the English speaking world and a sizable portion of anime fan in others.

ACTA is the one that removes rights, such as a warrant needed for personal information.

If that is true, then there is possibly no way this bill will ever pass... I mean, there is no way they are going to allow ACTA to allow a censorship that large to ever be filled... If it was just the U.S, then it would be possible that we might get it. But if it involves those other countries.... Then its not possible.... Or so I say....

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Mentar

The ISPs are not complicit in this scenario. If anything, ISPs are even more anti-ACTA, because the law would put very unpleasant duties on them.

What they are now, doesn't matter when they are integrated into large corporations.

Originally Posted by Mentar

No, WHOIS databases are something else. They only list the people and organizations responsible for networks, domains and the likes. This however does not give any information about the physical location of them.

Spoiler for WHOIS for my IP:

NetRange: 77.0.0.0 - 77.255.255.255
CIDR: 77.0.0.0/8
OriginAS:
NetName: 77-RIPE
NetHandle: NET-77-0-0-0-1
Parent:
NetType: Allocated to RIPE NCC
NameServer: TINNIE.ARIN.NET
NameServer: SUNIC.SUNET.SE
NameServer: NS-PRI.RIPE.NET
NameServer: SEC3.APNIC.NET
NameServer: NS2.LACNIC.NET
NameServer: SEC1.APNIC.NET
Comment: These addresses have been further assigned to users in
Comment: the RIPE NCC region. Contact information can be found in
Comment: the RIPE database at http://www.ripe.net/whois
RegDate: 2006-08-29
Updated: 2009-05-18
Ref: http://whois.arin.net/rest/net/NET-77-0-0-0-1

OrgName: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
OrgId: RIPE
Address: P.O. Box 10096
City: Amsterdam
StateProv:
PostalCode: 1001EB
Country: NL
RegDate:
Updated: 2004-12-13
Ref: http://whois.arin.net/rest/org/RIPE

ReferralServer: whois://whois.ripe.net:43

#
# ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
# available at: https://www.arin.net/whois_tou.html
#



Found a referral to whois.ripe.net:43.

% This is the RIPE Database query service.
% The objects are in RPSL format.
%
% The RIPE Database is subject to Terms and Conditions.
% See http://www.ripe.net/db/support/db-terms-conditions.pdf

% Note: This output has been filtered.
% To receive output for a database update, use the "-B" flag.

% Information related to '77.7.0.0 - 77.7.127.255'

inetnum: 77.7.0.0 - 77.7.127.255
netname: TEDE-LLU
descr: Telefonica O2 Germany GmbH & Co. OHG
descr: Georg-Brauchle-Ring 23-25
descr: 80992 Muenchen
country: DE
admin-c: IPTO-RIPE
tech-c: IPTO-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
mnt-by: MDA-Z
source: RIPE # Filtered

role: IP Telefonica O2 Germany
address: Telefonica O2 Germany GmbH & Co. OHG
admin-c: PTA7-RIPE
admin-c: ABEN1-RIPE
tech-c: PTA7-RIPE
tech-c: ABEN1-RIPE
nic-hdl: IPTO-RIPE
abuse-mailbox: abuse@telefonica.de
mnt-by: MDA-Z
source: RIPE # Filtered

% Information related to '77.0.0.0/12AS6805'

route: 77.0.0.0/12
descr: Telefonica Deutschland GmbH
origin: AS6805
mnt-by: MDA-Z
source: RIPE # Filtered

% Information related to '77.6.0.0/15AS6805'

route: 77.6.0.0/15
descr: Telefonica Deutschland GmbH
origin: AS6805
mnt-by: MDA-Z
source: RIPE # Filtered

country: DE
address: Telefonica O2 Germany GmbH & Co. OHG

Thats precise enough for the scenario I was talking about.

Originally Posted by Mentar

The correct term are geotargeting databases, offered by geotargeting service providers.

They exist as well, but are not the only service that offers geo location information...

Originally Posted by Mentar

This situation is not comparable. In your scenario, the power companies are the ones who have the interest to control conditions. In the internet scenario, this is the LAST thing the ISPs want.

The problem is not the ISPs, it is the corporatist government that is trying to coerce the ISPs against their will. It's the opposite of what you describe.

When all ISPs are taken over by large corporations your precondition doesn't work anymore. My example was a step ahead already.

[TigerII]

Originally Posted by Hooves

That is the best phrase ever



If that is true, then there is possibly no way this bill will ever pass... I mean, there is no way they are going to allow ACTA to allow a censorship that large to ever be filled... If it was just the U.S, then it would be possible that we might get it. But if it involves those other countries.... Then its not possible.... Or so I say....

I think you have them confused. COICA is the American bill that would give the US government the ability to remove or block wesbites.


ACTA is the international treaty that is secretive(Governments say it threatens national security), but parts have been leaked(By the Canadian delegates I believe). This treaty would strip the rights of people online. Take ISPs. For now, if a company or government wants your information from an ISP, they have to get a warrant. ACTA would remove this. Companies and governments could get info at will. Another big part is it would allow ISPs free reign over how they handle their customers. Directly relating to anime, say your IP address is found to be seeding or leeching an anime torrent. The Japanese production company could ask your ISP or even pay them to turn your info over. It is like this now, but more stops to keep your info from being released.

All the nations signing ACTA are capitalistic nations(Most of them more Socialistic leaning), but are still controlled by governments who are in the lobbyist pockets.

[Yuri Jacobs]

Hi there all. I'm sorry that I wasn't active for about a year or so, but this isn't the time. We've got a major issue concerning the Internet, please, this is serious!

COICA

In the United States, a new law proposal called The Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA) was introduced last week, and there will be a hearing in front of the Judiciary Committee this Thursday.

If passed, this law will allow the government, under the command of the media companies, to censor the internet as they see fit, like China and Iran do, with the difference that the sites they decide to censor will be completely removed from the internet and not just in the US.

Please see the following article from the Huffington Post for more information.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-..._b_739836.html

And if you are a U.S. citizen, please take the time to sign this petition
Demand Progress - Petition to Stop the Internet Blacklist!

[synaesthetic]

There's already a thread for this.

Also, it won't pass, and if it does, the Internet will largely ignore it.

[Ending]

There will always be ways to encrypt and distribute anime/manga material to those who want it. The casual ones will have a tougher time finding it, but as long as they have one hardcore techy friend, they'll get it. Even if we have to reduce ourselves to invitation-only sneaker nets, SSH tunnels, and sneakernets.

Which is why I couldn't care less about yet-another-political-coup. One way or another, I'll still get what I want. It's just a matter of convinience: do I loan the stuff from a buddy, download it from somewhere, or maybe some third way. I'm so alienated from the copyright groups that I'd rather spit on their face than pay a penny on top of all the taxes and threats they have imposed.

I'm a little worried about US starting to take political interest in domain names, since almost all o the DNS-servers are in US. When Sweden started to monitor all traffic that goes through their borders, most of the finnish traffic was redirected to elsewhere. The same will happen here and it just might fragment the net. Nothing devastating, I'm sure, but still a lot of unnecessary hassle. All because of one fucked up country.

[Yuno]

I must confess that since I discovered fansubs I have been buying more things. Before my discovery of fansubs I simply felt that anime was too expensive and out of my reach. I also didn't really have stores and vendors in my area at the time. Over time and since anime has been easier to access for me- I go that extra step to get a figure, an artbook, a soundtrack, or a manga. Before I would never consider purchasing or caring enough to get things. I have imported quite a lot of things, bought from foreign companies, and had friends bring things back from japan enough to make one shutter.

I am just sad that American political powers will throw away their ideals on liberty and privacy for the sake of self-righteous drivel. I am already contemplating what I might do to obtain my anime.

[Cloudy]

Wonder if ACTA is passed, would it be passed seperatedly by partcipating nations or would it be passed jointly?

Anyway I hope ACTA would not come into fruitation.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Sora Kasugano

I am just sad that American political powers will throw away their ideals on liberty and privacy for the sake of self-righteous drivel. I am already contemplating what I might do to obtain my anime.

I'm slightly more worried about more important things than anime--like the government using the blacklist to basically bring Orwell's 1984 to life, at least on the Internet.

Anime is the least of my concerns.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I'm slightly more worried about more important things than anime--like the government using the blacklist to basically bring Orwell's 1984 to life, at least on the Internet.

Anime is the least of my concerns.

Sad thing is George Orwell's 1984 is in some extent already in exsitence with the silencing of people who are in opposition with the government, I mean Valerie Plame? Our national security was less important then enforcing the "party" lines and what I mean by party lines, is more the Military Industrial Complex that is fueled by perpetual war.

[Highman]

Don't know If it's serious but it seems they want to sign it badly.......................LOL!


TOKYO (Reuters) - Nearly 40 nations reached agreement in principle on Saturday on an international trade pact aimed at reducing copyright and trademark theft that causes losses of billions of dollars annually.


http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6910AO20101002

[synaesthetic]

I am getting to the point where I want to pirate everything just to spite these motherfuckers, and encourage everyone I know to do the same thing.

[flying ^]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I am getting to the point where I want to pirate everything just to spite these motherfuckers, and encourage everyone I know to do the same thing.

the jig is up man

The wild west that is the internet is now done, over, regulated.

new technologies make so easy to crack down and pick apart piraters

once the legal system catches up, the will to enforce anti piracy and crackdown on illegal pornography (with Japan leading the way as the kiddie porn superpower) is here to stay.

[Highman]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I am getting to the point where I want to pirate everything just to spite these motherfuckers, and encourage everyone I know to do the same thing.

It's not that serious and now they'll send to EU and just throw the sucker away like it's nothing.

[synaesthetic]

I hope you're right... I just find it hilarious how the Obama administration is brewing these backroom agreements while championing the cause of net neutrality on the same days.

And by hilarious I mean it really pisses me off.

[Highman]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I hope you're right... I just find it hilarious how the Obama administration is brewing these backroom agreements while championing the cause of net neutrality on the same days.

And by hilarious I mean it really pisses me off.

Still they won't do anything at all, If this passes not only it will hurt the stock and shareholders but possibly going through another recession. But that's my take. Those corporations have no excuses but to make things worse. They need to adapt or fall!