AnimeSuki Forums

Shikijin · 2012-02-03, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Context my friend, context... =_=

I am not a native Japanese speaker, but I can tell it's not like we don't have any context. We have an adjective and a noun. In which circumstances they are most commonly paired together? One of the basic assumption is that Okada was making sense to the readers. We can even assume she was half-joking to avoid spoiling too much, but a joke nevertheless implies a common, basic meaning to her words which is juxtaposed to the real meaning. So the question is: what does a Japanese commonly mean with 悪い女?

I tried googling it a bit, and I found this sentence, taken from a movie I think:

男：悪い女だ　英語で、Bitch と言っている。このアバズレ、ぐらいの罵倒する意味合がある。

Then again, it seems for the Japanese "bitch" has the sense of "promiscuous woman". I've seen "abazure", in the sentence above, translated even with "playgirl".

So, if we get to the root of it, maybe she was just saying Mikono is fickle

miketyson · 2012-02-03, 15:03

Shikijin: I think reading this will settle it for you: http://labaq.com/archives/51007312.html (half-sarcasm). Honestly, the range of what it can mean is wide enough and we don't have enough context to pin it down beyond knowing that Mikono's probably going to cause a problem or too by the end of the show, and we should leave it at that.

Adigard · 2012-02-03, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketyson

In re: Kagura, I can't shake the sense he's not a true resurrection, but maybe some kind of synthetic clone/android.

I've thought something along those lines since ep1... although it's hard to be sure.

Spoiler:

That certainly LOOKS like it could be not exactly human, and we are dealing with 12,000 years in the future. Also Kagura acts way too much like Apollo to be a mere reincarnation of Apollo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

That scene in the OP with Crea? I counted six pilots- three girls (Zessica, Mix, Sanzaka) and three boys (Andy, Cayenne, ???)

That ones easy... They just dropped Crea in front of the scene from Ep1.

Spoiler:

Really... we can only take the OP and ED so far for spoiler discussions. At face value you'd assume Andy will be losing an arm and Shrade will vanish.

kuromitsu · 2012-02-04, 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketyson

Shikijin: I think reading this will settle it for you: http://labaq.com/archives/51007312.html (half-sarcasm). Honestly, the range of what it can mean is wide enough and we don't have enough context to pin it down beyond knowing that Mikono's probably going to cause a problem or too by the end of the show, and we should leave it at that.

Seriously. ^^;; I'm no native speaker either but if you know enough Japanese to google it and whatnot then you should know how unspecific and vague it is without any context (much like in English, for that matter). Besides, how can you tell that the writer or whoever it was that said this wasn't simply joking or being sarcastic?

Shikijin · 2012-02-04, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketyson

Shikijin: I think reading this will settle it for you: http://labaq.com/archives/51007312.html (half-sarcasm).

Read it. As expected, that list (which is about what a 悪い女 does, rather than what a 悪い女 is) was basically sex-related stuff. It appears 悪い女 is a synonym of 尻軽女. For the Japanese a "bad woman" is a "promiscuous woman", if not even a "vamp". Not "evil", nor "mean". Case closed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Seriously. ^^;; I'm no native speaker either but if you know enough Japanese to google it and whatnot then you should know how unspecific and vague it is without any context (much like in English, for that matter). Besides, how can you tell that the writer or whoever it was that said this wasn't simply joking or being sarcastic?

There is misconception on how vague Japanese is. Or maybe on the concept of vagueness. If Okada really meant to be "vague", she wouldn't have made people understand she was talking about Mikono. Once you mention a subject the cat is out of the bag. And yeah, I think she was joking, the joke being using a term that is an exaggeration of what it actually happens. Since the story had to have a love triangle, Mikono had to be a natural temptress

miketyson · 2012-02-04, 09:03

Hope you at least chuckled at that link, based on at least one of those Amata should know about Mikono by now. Looks like the best choice for a short English phrase would've been "bad girl", which can mean anything with enough context but likewise defaults to being about sexual habits. Stuff like this is why I usually leave translating to translators.

kuromitsu · 2012-02-04, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shikijin

There is misconception on how vague Japanese is. Or maybe on the concept of vagueness. If Okada really meant to be "vague", she wouldn't have made people understand she was talking about Mikono. Once you mention a subject the cat is out of the bag. And yeah, I think she was joking, the joke being using a term that is an exaggeration of what it actually happens. Since the story had to have a love triangle, Mikono had to be a natural temptress

...I didn't mean Japanese in general being vague, I meant "warui onna" being vague without more context (like about as vague as "bad girl" in English, then again I'm no native speaker of English either so what do I know). Especially when applied to someone like Mikono who hasn't shown any indication of being "bad" so far.

hoarfrost · 2012-02-04, 12:27

I hate how characters like Mix are always "defrosted" by being paired with the boor with a heart of gold. It seems to me that Mix would warm up to a more mature, refined, capable guy. Like Shrade for example (not that I'm suggesting that ship or anything...).

I'm calling it now: Andy will win her over by stubbornly risking his life to help her and just narrowly surviving.

BetoJR · 2012-02-04, 13:29

How refreshing would it be if she didn't defrost, eh? Not that that has any chance of happening, tho...

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-02-04, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetoJR

How refreshing would it be if she didn't defrost, eh? Not that that has any chance of happening, tho...

Why would anyone want that? It wouldn't be good for her character at all.

Adigard · 2012-02-04, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetoJR

How refreshing would it be if she didn't defrost, eh? Not that that has any chance of happening, tho...

Sounds like it'd be a lack of character development, which is never a good thing. She doesn't have to defrost, but she certainly needs to grow as a character.

Vena · 2012-02-04, 18:57

Character development need not be defrosting, so whether or not she defrosts has little to do with whether or not she properly develops as a character. Saying that it would be bad/good for her to defrost is simply a matter of preference...

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-02-04, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adigard

Sounds like it'd be a lack of character development, which is never a good thing. She doesn't have to defrost, but she certainly needs to grow as a character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vena

Character development need not be defrosting, so whether or not she defrosts has little to do with whether or not she properly develops as a character. Saying that it would be bad/good for her to defrost is simply a matter of preference...

If not by defrosting could you give some other examples

?

Vena · 2012-02-04, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

If not by defrosting could you give some other examples

?

She could just maintain a genuine dislike of men, there's no *need* for her be defrosted by anyone. All of Andy's advances and efforts could fail to sway her heart, and that would establish and build her character in a often not seen direction with *Ice Queens* (that is to say, keeping them as Ice Queens). That is character development.

Its not going to happen, obviously, the signs are about as plain as day but it would be interesting to see...

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-02-04, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vena

She could just maintain a genuine dislike of men, there's no *need* for her be defrosted by anyone. All of Andy's advances and efforts could fail to sway her heart, and that would establish and build her character in a often not seen direction with *Ice Queens* (that is to say, keeping them as Ice Queens). That is character development.

That is of course, if her character is meant to be disliked.

totoum · 2012-02-04, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vena

She could just maintain a genuine dislike of men, there's no *need* for her be defrosted by anyone. All of Andy's advances and efforts could fail to sway her heart, and that would establish and build her character in a often not seen direction with *Ice Queens*

So she'd stay the same all throughout the show?How is that character developement?

mayumi · 2012-02-04, 19:59

apparently on 2ch they have the titles for episode 7 - going to be about yunoha, 8 - zessica, 9 - mix.
i can't don't know japanese but i think they were mentioned.

HayashiTakara · 2012-02-04, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vena

She could just maintain a genuine dislike of men, there's no *need* for her be defrosted by anyone. All of Andy's advances and efforts could fail to sway her heart, and that would establish and build her character in a often not seen direction with *Ice Queens* (that is to say, keeping them as Ice Queens). That is character development.

Its not going to happen, obviously, the signs are about as plain as day but it would be interesting to see...

She just needs a good "dicking" it's the miracle cure-all of the frigid afterall

*cough*

Adigard · 2012-02-04, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vena

She could just maintain a genuine dislike of men, there's no *need* for her be defrosted by anyone. All of Andy's advances and efforts could fail to sway her heart, and that would establish and build her character in a often not seen direction with *Ice Queens* (that is to say, keeping them as Ice Queens). That is character development.

Its not going to happen, obviously, the signs are about as plain as day but it would be interesting to see...

I understand exactly what you're getting at... but in a universe where your usefulness is tuned to how well you can synch your emotions with other pilots (often mixed-gender) being unable to do so could lead to a wonderful bit of character growth, but ultimately she would have to overcome it because that's simply how the show works.

Spoiler:

But as you say it's not really a valid discussion since we already know it's going to happen.

I seem to recall something in the original character background that was translated earlier suggesting that she likes to fill holes, coupled with Andy's statements in ep 4.

Spoiler:

Although I could be mis-remembering it all. But that's why I'm assuming the Andy - Mix coupling.

Triple_R · 2012-02-04, 20:28

My view on Mix is that it's perfectly fine if she never gets together with a guy (though I think there's a good chance she gets paired with Andy), but I wouldn't want her to maintain a dislike of all men all throughout the show, because I think that might send a bad message. In other words, I'd be fine if there's a male character (Shrade would indeed be ideal here) who's overall strength as a character/person softens her view on men but she doesn't have to go so far as to fall in love with that male character. Just a simple mutual respect, say.

In fact, thinking more on it, I'd find that pretty refreshing. Especially in Mix's case since other characters can carry the romance elements of the show if necessary.

Anyway, I just caught up on Aquarion EVOL (up through the first five episodes), and it's a lot of cheesy, fast-paced fun.

Mikono is an interesting character, too. I thought she'd just be your standard shy but generally cheerful/nice moe girl (which would be Ok, but nothing very interesting), but she's been given an edge in how she's actually pretty prideful and doesn't make-up easily with people. She's quick to take offense, and she's hard to smooth things over with. Other than that she seems like an Ok person, but these flaws give her a good edge, and probably make her a bit more realistic than most moe girls. The best thing is that even though she's quick to offend, and hard to smooth things over with, she doesn't give me a classic tsundere vibe at all. Some great nuance here with her character.

Most of the rest of the cast are colorful archetypes played for laughs, but Mikono (and the overall war atmosphere) keeps the show from becoming pure comedy.

All-in-all, a good watch so far. It's an 8/10 anime for me thus far.

2012-02-04, 18:57	Link #892
Vena Carpe Diem Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: \|\|At the edge of finality.\|\| Age: 34	Character development need not be defrosting, so whether or not she defrosts has little to do with whether or not she properly develops as a character. Saying that it would be bad/good for her to defrost is simply a matter of preference... __________________

2012-02-04, 20:28	Link #900
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	My view on Mix is that it's perfectly fine if she never gets together with a guy (though I think there's a good chance she gets paired with Andy), but I wouldn't want her to maintain a dislike of all men all throughout the show, because I think that might send a bad message. In other words, I'd be fine if there's a male character (Shrade would indeed be ideal here) who's overall strength as a character/person softens her view on men but she doesn't have to go so far as to fall in love with that male character. Just a simple mutual respect, say. In fact, thinking more on it, I'd find that pretty refreshing. Especially in Mix's case since other characters can carry the romance elements of the show if necessary. Anyway, I just caught up on Aquarion EVOL (up through the first five episodes), and it's a lot of cheesy, fast-paced fun. Mikono is an interesting character, too. I thought she'd just be your standard shy but generally cheerful/nice moe girl (which would be Ok, but nothing very interesting), but she's been given an edge in how she's actually pretty prideful and doesn't make-up easily with people. She's quick to take offense, and she's hard to smooth things over with. Other than that she seems like an Ok person, but these flaws give her a good edge, and probably make her a bit more realistic than most moe girls. The best thing is that even though she's quick to offend, and hard to smooth things over with, she doesn't give me a classic tsundere vibe at all. Some great nuance here with her character. Most of the rest of the cast are colorful archetypes played for laughs, but Mikono (and the overall war atmosphere) keeps the show from becoming pure comedy. All-in-all, a good watch so far. It's an 8/10 anime for me thus far. __________________

2012-02-03, 15:03	Link #882
miketyson Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	Shikijin: I think reading this will settle it for you: http://labaq.com/archives/51007312.html (half-sarcasm). Honestly, the range of what it can mean is wide enough and we don't have enough context to pin it down beyond knowing that Mikono's probably going to cause a problem or too by the end of the show, and we should leave it at that.

2012-02-04, 09:03	Link #886
miketyson Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	Hope you at least chuckled at that link, based on at least one of those Amata should know about Mikono by now. Looks like the best choice for a short English phrase would've been "bad girl", which can mean anything with enough context but likewise defaults to being about sexual habits. Stuff like this is why I usually leave translating to translators.

2012-02-04, 12:27	Link #888
hoarfrost Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Age: 31	I hate how characters like Mix are always "defrosted" by being paired with the boor with a heart of gold. It seems to me that Mix would warm up to a more mature, refined, capable guy. Like Shrade for example (not that I'm suggesting that ship or anything...). I'm calling it now: Andy will win her over by stubbornly risking his life to help her and just narrowly surviving.

2012-02-04, 19:59	Link #897
mayumi Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004	apparently on 2ch they have the titles for episode 7 - going to be about yunoha, 8 - zessica, 9 - mix. i can't don't know japanese but i think they were mentioned.