[Manga] Naruto Chapter 691 Discussion Thread

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

this also makes no sense now. isn't hagaromo going to talk with obito now?

Why? What purpose would a conversation between them serve?

why won't hashi and madara see each other in the next plane?

Whether they do or don't isn't relevant to how Sasuke would be affected. The point I was trying to make is that Hagoromo stops Sasuke from killing Madara so he can pay attention to their final conversation. That conversation holds quite a bit of subtext, both for how they lived, and the path Sasuke was following.

i dont see why madara would be the only one to go to hell. itachi ascended. they're all killer ninjas after all

This may just be my bad memory, but I don't recall there ever being a mention of an actual heaven or hell by which dead ninja are divided. And, if there are, I'd argue that redeemed souls would ascend, and others wouldn't. Itachi was redeemed (though only in the eyes of his brother, as he was never really a bad guy in the first place), Madara wasn't.

[Slayerx]

Y'know was it ever really explained where the Sage of Six Paths came from... I can't really recall how or way he suddenly manifested like this. He just popped up out o nowhere and started giving out free power ups and advice. I can't really recall how this all happened in the first place...

Though a lot about this "war" has been rather confusing

Originally Posted by OH&S

Huh, it was too... Actually, now that I've re-read that chapter, I've realised how shoehorned in that little fact was.

When they Minato told Naruto Happy birthday, i thought for a minute that they were going for a corny though kind of clever sentiment. Namely the reason Minato was wishing Naruto "Happy birthday" was because he never got a chance to say it before he died; afterall he died right after Naruto was born. Its like a real corny way of saying "I'm sorry I wasn't around for you throughout your whole life but I'm proud you're my son".

But no they meant it was his actual birthday and I just thought, "Well... isn't that a coincidence..." Honestly, there just isn't really much point to it. its just corny

Originally Posted by Quzor

This arc has largely been a mess, in my opinion. Lots of things happening for seemingly no other reason than things needing to happen. This chapter, though, I thought did a nice job of bringing resolution to a lot of those stories.

I think the arc being a big mess is part of the problem. I mean i guess on its own this chapter would be rather "meh", but being the end to such a messy arc just makes it feel even worst. Its like everyone has been in such a pessimistic mood through this past arc and this ending hasn't picked them up. I mean, i don't even know a better way they could have wrapped things up... its like the ending would have had to been extra good just to come off as descent.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Quzor

That conversation holds quite a bit of subtext, both for how they lived, and the path Sasuke was following.

i agree, i just think it's dumb to have any kind of finality to that moment since they are just going to be re-united in a couple seconds in the afterlife. apparently you can be with whoever you want, like how obito is stalking rin again in the afterlife

This may just be my bad memory, but I don't recall there ever being a mention of an actual heaven or hell by which dead ninja are divided

i dont think there is a heaven and hell either, i'm just saying that makes the point that 2 dying people will just be together in death anyway if they want. so basically there is absolutely no reason to feel loss in this universe. not only can people be edo-tensei or rinne tensei,d, now it's a thing that everyone can just hang out in the afterlife

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

When they Minato told Naruto Happy birthday, i thought for a minute that they were going for a corny though kind of clever sentiment. Namely the reason Minato was wishing Naruto "Happy birthday" was because he never got a chance to say it before he died; afterall he died right after Naruto was born. Its like a real corny way of saying "I'm sorry I wasn't around for you throughout your whole life but I'm proud you're my son".

But no they meant it was his actual birthday and I just thought, "Well... isn't that a coincidence..." Honestly, there just isn't really much point to it. its just corny

I think this is just supposed to be a tie-in to the start of the story. Madara's first attack against the village was on Naruto's birthday, and Madara's final attack on the village was on Naruto's birthday; nothing more.

I think the arc being a big mess is part of the problem. I mean i guess on its own this chapter would be rather "meh", but being the end to such a messy arc just makes it feel even worst. Its like everyone has been in such a pessimistic mood through this past arc and this ending hasn't picked them up. I mean, i don't even know a better way they could have wrapped things up... its like the ending would have had to been extra good just to come off as descent.

I guess this is part of my issue, insofar as people not liking the chapter. Like you said, "I don't even know a better way they could have wrapped things up..." I think a lot of hating on this chapter is borne from people just wanting to hate the final arc in general. No one was happy with Obito coming back so many times, I get that. Should he just stay alive then? If not, how should he die for the final time? Should Kakashi just keep Obito's sharingan? If not, how should he finally lose them? Should Madara die because he was an extracted Jinchuuriki, even though there's precedent for saving one? If not, how should he finally die? And, how does all of this push character arcs forward in a meaningful way?

An old adage is "You aren't seeing the forest for the trees." In general, that rings true for a lot of things, but I think this is one instance where fans need to stop looking at the forest, and just appreciate the tree that is in front of them.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i agree, i just think it's dumb to have any kind of finality to that moment since they are just going to be re-united in a couple seconds in the afterlife. apparently you can be with whoever you want, like how obito is stalking rin again in the afterlife

i dont think there is a heaven and hell either, i'm just saying that makes the point that 2 dying people will just be together in death anyway if they want. so basically there is absolutely no reason to feel loss in this universe. not only can people be edo-tensei or rinne tensei,d, now it's a thing that everyone can just hang out in the afterlife

This just feels like you're looking for things to complain about, because you want to complain. We have absolutely no clue how the afterlife really works. Just because we have one instance of two characters getting to be together (Obito and Rin), doesn't mean it works that way for all characters. And, even if it does, why do we have to assume that Hashirama and Madara would just hang out in the afterlife? Why couldn't they be embroiled in a never-ending battle? Just because they might be "together," doesn't mean they're going to be best friends.

At the same time, these dead characters, being able to interact with living characters, has lasting affects on the characters who will be living after the dead characters are gone, specifically because they will be gone. That loss, in turn, has an affect on how they progress as characters in the story. That's what I meant earlier, when I said the panels on page 12 said a lot, without the characters saying anything. Stories like this are about character progression. If every story is just going to boil down to "how does the afterlife work," then what's the point of telling the story in the first place? Sasuke, Naruto, Kakashi, Sakura, and many others will not be dead at the end of this story. What might happen to them in the afterlife has absolutely no bearing on what happens with them, now that the war is over.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Quzor

This just feels like you're looking for things to complain about, because you want to complain. We have absolutely no clue how the afterlife really works. Just because we have one instance of two characters getting to be together (Obito and Rin), doesn't mean it works that way for all characters.

don't forget about kakashi's dad. minato is also going to relay a message to kushina right at this moment... ...and like i said, hagoromo literally just said he would talk to obito

And, even if it does, why do we have to assume that Hashirama and Madara would just hang out in the afterlife? Why couldn't they be embroiled in a never-ending battle? Just because they might be "together," doesn't mean they're going to be best friends.

i never said they'd be bffs. you're blowing things way out of proportion. i'm just saying that there's no finality or loss in this reality if people can see each other in the afterlife

[dmaxzero]

I am happy just because this manga is ending.
I still remember when this was about ninjas.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Quzor

I think this is just supposed to be a tie-in to the start of the story. Madara's first attack against the village was on Naruto's birthday, and Madara's final attack on the village was on Naruto's birthday; nothing more.

and thus the start of a new story…hopefully

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

it just seems to me a convenient and nonsensical choice for him to pick the first kages.

it makes a tiny bit of sense…the creation of the ninja villages was a major point in ninja history. before that it was just a bunch of individual clans warring with each other. under what premise would you even select somebody from the time? perhaps rank the strongest clans and pick the leaders of the top 10? actually picking the kages makes a lot of sense to me as they represent probably the first real movement for a better ninja world.
plus its the end of part two. no new faces please and thank you

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

it makes a tiny bit of sense…the creation of the ninja villages was a major point in ninja history. before that it was just a bunch of individual clans warring with each other. under what premise would you even select somebody from the time? perhaps rank the strongest clans and pick the leaders of the top 10? actually picking the kages makes a lot of sense to me as they represent probably the first real movement for a better ninja world.
plus its the end of part two. no new faces please and thank you

i suppose looking for sense in any of this is a fruitless endeavor. i would assume indra and ashura would have made the most sense. maybe all the duos of their reincarnations? the kages are basically strangers to hagoromo. i guess he has been watching everyone and "knows" everyone, but the villages are a pretty new creation in the scheme of things. there must have been plenty of stronger ninjas than some of the kages. its probably not worth discussing any further though. it's all pretty dumb

[Sinedd]

Chapter 691: Congratiulations
Happy 17th Birthday, Naruto!
The long WAR is finally over, Hogoromo "resurrects" for a few moments the Kages I don't know nuthin about and again and again, Kakashi talks with Obito. Really, leave Obito alone! He's dead, he's not immortal, he's not Orochimaru!
Madara got his final words before his death. He didn't had the chance to show his true powers after Infinite Tsukuyomi, damn you Black Zetsu!
Hashirama & Madara were friends and rivals at the same time, they had different conceptions about the Shinobi world.
Also, the Edo Kages are gone forever! Adios Hashirama, Adios Minato, Adio Hiruzen. why they didn't show Tobirama? Whatever!
Now, the only thing that they need to solve is to save the others from the nest. What if they are already dead? laugh. I know it won't happen.
I really want a 2nd match Naruto VS. Sasuke for the title of Hokage and Kishimoto can end the manga.

[Alchemist007]

Pretty good chapter. Wish Sasuke would say something other than "..."

[JSnow]

Originally Posted by Quzor

I think this is just supposed to be a tie-in to the start of the story. Madara's first attack against the village was on Naruto's birthday, and Madara's final attack on the village was on Naruto's birthday; nothing more.



I guess this is part of my issue, insofar as people not liking the chapter. Like you said, "I don't even know a better way they could have wrapped things up..." I think a lot of hating on this chapter is borne from people just wanting to hate the final arc in general. No one was happy with Obito coming back so many times, I get that. Should he just stay alive then? If not, how should he die for the final time? Should Kakashi just keep Obito's sharingan? If not, how should he finally lose them? Should Madara die because he was an extracted Jinchuuriki, even though there's precedent for saving one? If not, how should he finally die? And, how does all of this push character arcs forward in a meaningful way?

An old adage is "You aren't seeing the forest for the trees." In general, that rings true for a lot of things, but I think this is one instance where fans need to stop looking at the forest, and just appreciate the tree that is in front of them.


This just feels like you're looking for things to complain about, because you want to complain. We have absolutely no clue how the afterlife really works. Just because we have one instance of two characters getting to be together (Obito and Rin), doesn't mean it works that way for all characters. And, even if it does, why do we have to assume that Hashirama and Madara would just hang out in the afterlife? Why couldn't they be embroiled in a never-ending battle? Just because they might be "together," doesn't mean they're going to be best friends.

At the same time, these dead characters, being able to interact with living characters, has lasting affects on the characters who will be living after the dead characters are gone, specifically because they will be gone. That loss, in turn, has an affect on how they progress as characters in the story. That's what I meant earlier, when I said the panels on page 12 said a lot, without the characters saying anything. Stories like this are about character progression. If every story is just going to boil down to "how does the afterlife work," then what's the point of telling the story in the first place? Sasuke, Naruto, Kakashi, Sakura, and many others will not be dead at the end of this story. What might happen to them in the afterlife has absolutely no bearing on what happens with them, now that the war is over.

Idk what makes you think most ppl are complaining just to complain. Most ppl are mad and upset to see a beloved story that they have been following for years, the brilliant character arcs and story's that have been laid out so carefully, come together in such a clumsy half assed way is very disappointing. I love naruto I'm not hating just to hate. I'm hurt and disappointed. It's just a huge let down. I see the tree I just can't believe how rotted it is.

[solidguy]

I'm not satisfied with Naruto ending until Tenten actually uses the sages legendary gourd

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by JSnow

Idk what makes you think most ppl are complaining just to complain. Most ppl are mad and upset to see a beloved story that they have been following for years, the brilliant character arcs and story's that have been laid out so carefully, come together in such a clumsy half assed way is very disappointing. I love naruto I'm not hating just to hate. I'm hurt and disappointed. It's just a huge let down. I see the tree I just can't believe how rotted it is.

Well, ignoring the fact that you've taken that quote out of context: If you're reading a story you don't like, and then complaining about it, I consider that complaining for its own sake. You're allowed to stop reading it, it's okay. There has been very little compliment about this chapter, which I personally felt did a very nice job of advancing characters arcs toward their finales in a meaningful way.

If you see the tree, and it's rotted to you, why do you continue to look at it?

Originally Posted by solidguy

I'm not satisfied with Naruto ending until Tenten actually uses the sages legendary gourd

I've been reading this a lot, and seen quite a bit of speculation that Naruto and everyone might be trapped in the Infinite Tsukuyomi already, which I think would make for a pretty interesting plot twist. I'm hoping something comes out of Tenten getting that thing, otherwise it comes off as an unused Chekhov's gun, which I find strange.

[JSnow]

Originally Posted by solidguy

I'm not satisfied with Naruto ending until Tenten actually uses the sages legendary gourd

And I thought Sai suspicion of Sasuke and Sakura ' s "fake smile " was going somewhere too. Karin being from the Uzumaki clan, suigetsu and his seven sword quest, unfortunately theres a lot they haven't covered

[JSnow]

Originally Posted by Quzor

If you're reading a story you don't like, and then complaining about it, I consider that complaining for its own sake. You're allowed to stop reading it, it's okay. There has been very little compliment about this chapter, which I personally felt did a very nice job of advancing characters arcs toward their finales in a meaningful way.

If you see the tree, and it's rotted to you, why do you continue to look at it?

well I'm glad someone like it. I continue to watch because I loved the story for about 600 issues and I knew it was ending. I was holding out hope. Like I said i love the story and characters. I just think they deserve better

[JSnow]

This ending is just weak. It's too cheesy and safe. Like I said on the previous ch. Discussion I was expecting more drama, more strife. How many thousands died in that war? And nobody of real note. (sorry neji and shikaku) it's just a straight up weak safe ending that try to satisfy everyone but just ends up being lame. It is pointless to complain at this point but I head to just get that off my chest. O well hopefully the new attack on titan will be out soon

[Quzor]

Originally Posted by JSnow

well I'm glad someone like it. I continue to watch because I loved the story for about 600 issues and I knew it was ending. I was holding out hope. Like I said i love the story and characters. I just think they deserve better

I guess this is exactly what I'm getting at. Deserve better how? What should have been done differently, in your opinion?

For reference, Chapter 601 is the beginning of Obito's resurrection story, where he first meets Madara.

[JSnow]

Originally Posted by Quzor

I guess this is exactly what I'm getting at. Deserve better how? What should have been done differently, in your opinion?

For reference, Chapter 601 is the beginning of Obito's resurrection story, where he first meets Madara.

I liked all the back story ch. And I like how the bad guys weren't just evil to be evil but does naruto have to save everyone? Obito specifically, he is a very interesting complex character who I enjoyed. I think it's fine if he has a change of heart at the end but he still killed thousands of ppl I don't think naruto should be saying he's a great guy. It was interesting and unexpected when you get nagato's back story but when you repeat with Obito and Madara(I'm just trying to do the right thing) it gets stale. And the hole kaguya (or whatever her name was) seemed forced.

I was expecting Obito and Madara to be more lethal. I thought a member of team 7 (possibly sakura) to be killed. (possibly by Sasuke) I thought this would cause naruto to have a moment of doubt and maybe be a little dark for a while before coming around. Maybe even Sasuke would end up saving natuto.

I know he did have a very very short moment of doubt before hinate pulled him back but that what I mean by safe and weak. Pain in comparison killed and injured more significant ppl than Madara and obito. That doesn't seem right to me. I wasn't expecting a blood bath but I did think another major character was going to die. Possibly a member of team 7 or a kage.

[JSnow]

When naruto first left the "lion turtle" (shout out to the avatar) i thought that naruto was going to be captured by obito and Sasuke was going to save him. I think that would have been a cool twist.

[JSnow]

This ending just seems vanilla. There's nothing wrong with it if you like safe and boring. I was just expecting more