[Manga] Naruto Chapter 694 Discussion Thread

[Artful_Dodger]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

The five Kages are united. The shinobi of every village has been united. The whole SA witnessed Hashi/Naruto's memories/feelings. So yes the problem is fixed. Sasuke is trying to fix something that's not broken. The hatred is gone!

Ah so thats all it took. If only Jiraiya could've figured out that he could rid the world of hatred by having people witness Naruto's memories and have them feel his emotional baggage. I'm going to just laugh this off and assume you're trolling, and just playing around (in fact, I genuinely hope you are).

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

The five Kages are united. The shinobi of every village has been united. The whole SA witnessed Hashi/Naruto's memories/feelings. Bijuus are good and friendly. So yes the problem is fixed. Sasuke is trying to fix something that's not broken. The hatred is gone!

i agree to an extent, but i think you're missing the point. sasuke isn't trying to fix anything. he's trying to keep the peace going. without a central point of hatred, the alliance would eventually turn on themselves, be it this generation or the next one. there will always be bad apples, so if sasuke becomes the ultimate villain in everyone's eyes then they will always have that common enemy to keep the alliance going

[milan kyuubi]

Originally Posted by Artful_Dodger

Ah so thats all it took. If only Jiraiya could've figured out that he could rid the world of hatred by having people witness Naruto's memories and have them feel his emotional baggage. I'm going to just laugh this off and assume you're trolling, and just playing around (in fact, I genuinely hope you are).

You completely missed the point of my post.

It's because of Obito/Madara the SA was created and united. It's because of Madara that five Kage finally came to resolution and became united. It's because of Naruto the bijuus are good now. It's because witnessing Hashi memories of how the villages came to be that people learned to let go of disputes. It was because of Naruto's memories that everyone were finally united. Even Hashi thought so (see chapter 649 page 1).

So yes the cycle of hatred is broken. Sasuke is just looking for trouble by doing what he does!

So no I am not trolling. The only reason why witnessing Naruto's past worked, were because of this circumstances.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i agree to an extent, but i think you're missing the point. sasuke isn't trying to fix anything. he's trying to keep the peace going. without a central point of hatred, the alliance would eventually turn on themselves, be it this generation or the next one. there will always be bad apples, so if sasuke becomes the ultimate villain in everyone's eyes then they will always have that common enemy to keep the alliance going

Maybe. But at least Naruto's way may last longer. While Sasuke's plan will fall apart the moment he dies (old age etc etc).

[~Yami~]

ah... Sasuke wants to emulate Lelouch?
no way!

I'm rooting totally to Naruto this time.. hit his head hard

anyway, it is little sweet when Sasuke admitted Naruto as his closest friend

[Shinagami]

Originally Posted by akumaten

Like the old saying, "With 'friends' like those, who needs enemies...."
What a twisted relationship those two have.

Sasukes the the sadist and Narutos the masochist...

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Naruto maybe. Sasuke Still hasn't shown such feats. 8th gate Gai could defeat him!

8th gate Gai could defeat anyone he gave Rikkudo Madara a run for his money alone.

Originally Posted by DJ*

That said, even if Sasuke simply displays regular Rinnegan techniques that we've already seen coupled with his normal ruthless efficiency and battle-smarts, he shouldn't have any real troubles taking Naruto down anyway. And quickly too.

Of course, he'll get the Nagato/Kakuzu etc treatment now and do things he wouldn't normally do and had never shown any previous inclination of ever doing which he'll ultimately be made to pay for with Naruto's victory.

Yeah nt really sure about that current Naruto with all his feats he can take everthing we've been shown the rinnegan can do.infact based on what we've seen from both of them Naruto should stomp Sasuke.

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i agree to an extent, but i think you're missing the point. sasuke isn't trying to fix anything. he's trying to keep the peace going. without a central point of hatred, the alliance would eventually turn on themselves, be it this generation or the next one. there will always be bad apples, so if sasuke becomes the ultimate villain in everyone's eyes then they will always have that common enemy to keep the alliance going

I thought that Sasuke was trying to destroy the current system as such that there will always be hatered within it and that he doent care what everyone sees him as. He doesn't care about the alliance or anyones help he's going to do it all alone if anyone steps out line he will take care of it like when he said he would take care of all the executions and etc. Not that the alliance will stay together in order to fight him but that he will take care of everything he's creating he's own peace. I think you misundertood when he used Itachi as an example and said that he was going to become the darkness I think he meant that like Itachi he will do whatevers necessary to achieve peace even it means he will be seen as a villain amongst the people.

[Tempest35]

And so, the final mating ritual has begun...

[Eragon]

Originally Posted by Tempest35

And so, the final mating ritual has begun...

Best description. 10/10

[Artful_Dodger]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

You completely missed the point of my post.

It's because of Obito/Madara the SA was created and united. It's because of Madara that five Kage finally came to resolution and became united. It's because of Naruto the bijuus are good now. It's because witnessing Hashi memories of how the villages came to be that people learned to let go of disputes. It was because of Naruto's memories that everyone were finally united. Even Hashi thought so (see chapter 649 page 1).

So yes the cycle of hatred is broken. Sasuke is just looking for trouble by doing what he does!

So no I am not trolling. The only reason why witnessing Naruto's past worked, were because of this circumstances.

I didn't miss your point, I actually addressed it in post 39, and you simply ignored the response. Let me reiterate; just because todays shinobi have made peace with eachother today, doesn't mean it will last. This is not the only time in history when the villages were on good terms with eachother. There is still a *shinobi* alliance. What is a "shinobi" and what is its purpose? There is still a shinobi system of government in place. Greed, jealously, lust, etc. still exist. No official solution/system has been brought forth to deal with this, or maintain the current peace. The real issue here is the *cycle* of hatred in the world, and how to stop it permanently.

Maybe. But at least Naruto's way may last longer. While Sasuke's plan will fall apart the moment he dies (old age etc etc).

What keeps Naruto's plan in place when he dies, or even while he's alive? While we're at it, what is naruto's "way"? Just be nice? Has any plan been presented? Sasuke's system can be kept going by simply replacing the "hokage", just as he has just stepped in place of Madara here.

[milan kyuubi]

Originally Posted by Artful_Dodger

I didn't miss your point, I actually addressed it in post 39, and you simply ignored the response. Let me reiterate; just because todays shinobi have made peace with eachother today, doesn't mean it will last. This is not the only time in history when the villages were on good terms with eachother. There is still a *shinobi* alliance. What is a "shinobi" and what is its purpose? There is still a shinobi system of government in place. Greed, jealously, lust, etc. still exist. No official solution/system has been brought forth to deal with this, or maintain the current peace. The real issue here is the *cycle* of hatred in the world, and how to stop it permanently.



What keeps Naruto's plan in place when he dies, or even while he's alive? While we're at it, what is naruto's "way"? Just be nice? Has any plan been presented?

Naruto is currently loved and respected by whole SA. So they will follow Naruto. And Naruto's way even after he is gone. As much cliche as it sounds.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Maybe. But at least Naruto's way may last longer. While Sasuke's plan will fall apart the moment he dies (old age etc etc).

when sasuke gets old, all he has to do is pass on the mantle of "hokage" to the next "sasuke"

Originally Posted by Shinagami

I thought that Sasuke was trying to destroy the current system as such that there will always be hatered within it and that he doent care what everyone sees him as. He doesn't care about the alliance or anyones help he's going to do it all alone if anyone steps out line he will take care of it like when he said he would take care of all the executions and etc. Not that the alliance will stay together in order to fight him but that he will take care of everything he's creating he's own peace. I think you misundertood when he used Itachi as an example and said that he was going to become the darkness I think he meant that like Itachi he will do whatevers necessary to achieve peace even it means he will be seen as a villain amongst the people.

i dont see it that way exactly, but we are almost saying the same thing. i see his plan of killing the leaders as the ultimate way to make every ninja hate him and him alone. that is the judgment and punishment he will hand down. and he will accept the judgment and punishment of the allied ninjas when he becomes their main villain in the shadows. he will survive to make sure the peace stays in place and in case he needs to repeat the process

[Random14]

In a way, Naruto has already saved the world. They've got rid of Madara and Zetsu, possibly the largest masterminds behind almost everything. Orochimaru seems oddly mellow right now and even Kabuto has given up. The five Kages are all friends, everybody else has fought alongside each other, so things are pretty stable. Not perfect, but then as Hashirama said a few chapters ago to Madara, the point isn't to finish everything in their lifetimes but to pass things along to successors.

More likely it'll just come down to talk no jutsu, I know, but that's the way Naruto's world mostly works. The bijuus are happy to all just take a nap somewhere, Sasuke just isn't willing to leave things up to anyone else. Naruto is all about friendship with almost everyone by now. I just hope the fight won't be too one-sided from the beginning.

[Man of Sin]

The nations are not enemies because they hate each other, but out of survival of the fittest. Re-read chapter 436.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

The five Kages are united. The shinobi of every village has been united. The whole SA witnessed Hashi/Naruto's memories/feelings. Bijuus are good and friendly. So yes the problem is fixed. Sasuke is trying to fix something that's not broken. The hatred is gone!

Funny thing the only reason the alliance exists is because Tobito made a common enemy. The story has the same logic that Watchmen had: you create a common enemy for the world and peace breaks out. But once the common enemy is gone things will change, people will find enemies among each other. Its simply human nature.

[dniv]

This was the best chapter I've seen since the Gaara speech. FULL OF WIN. That was excellent.

When Sasuke gets old, he can just rediscover Orochimaru's techniques and live eternally. He basically already knows about how to do it. He was just studying up the whole time on how to become the perfect villain.

Furthermore, people are right. Sasuke's way of "saving" is also valid. Naruto's way doesn't even exist yet--he still has to finish finding it and rise to the occasion in this battle as is classic fashion.

This peace exists because the shinobi alliance had some enemy that they had to fight. After said enemy is gone, then they aren't distracted from their petty squabbles anymore and misunderstandings would crop up again.

That being said: Naruto is pushing understanding while Sasuke is pushing self-sacrifice. The problem is that power corrupts you. No one with pure ideals ends up having pure ideals after committing enough cruel acts. This is basically impossible. Understand involves reevaluating the circumstances no matter how they are. This ultimately seems to be a better idea even if what to do is only decided after it happens, which is the main idea behind understanding the new things that happen as opposed to having plans that are followed without shaping your own way of doing things.

I still believe that Sasuke has a very valid point. If he were able to continue being the main source of hatred towards the villages, then they would be unified. However, he is missing one very important point or perhaps two that Naruto will touch up on during the battle.

I won't say what they are now, but they clearly have to do with the classic response against misinterpreted Machiavellian methods of leading/ruling e.g. on the lines of fear vs. love.

Sasuke brings up the point that you can never get rid of hatred. But this isn't the entire picture.

[milan kyuubi]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

when sasuke gets old, all he has to do is pass on the mantle of "hokage" to the next "sasuke"

Next Sasuke will not have Hago's pu. So he will be easily disposed of.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Funny thing the only reason the alliance exists is because Tobito made a common enemy. The story has the same logic that Watchmen had: you create a common enemy for the world and peace breaks out.

That's what I said here!

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

But once the common enemy is gone things will change, people will find enemies among each other. Its simply human nature.

Naruto's not RW. Kishi makes it so the universe it self bends to Naruto's will.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Next Sasuke will not have Hago's pu. So he will be easily disposed of.

first off, sasuke is young so him dying of old age isn't exactly a pressing issue right now in anyone's plans. secondly, he's a genius ninja. i'm sure he would figure something out in terms of passing power to someone and being confident in a protege like madara was in obito. your comment is overly dismissive

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Naruto maybe. Sasuke Still hasn't shown such feats. 8th gate Gai could defeat him!

Look this is the exact same nonsense people spewed just before the first iteration of this battle years ago. X is way more powerful than Y, the Rasengan is stronger, it will be a stomp, etc. It's not even worth arguing about Eton coated perfect Susanoo, multiple Chibaku Tensei, teleportation, ridiculously powerful Genjutsu, etc. because the actual feats do not matter.

The fact is that Naruto and Sasuke are the two strongest ninja on earth by a ridiculous margin at this point. The only thing standing between the world and Sasuke's plan is Naruto and vice versa. The fight will be long and go one way then the other a few time before Naruto gains the upper hand and manages somehow to convince Sasuke to stay down and see things his way.

[ranchan13]

I'm HOPING that during this fight we get a little more info on Naruto's lineage.
Who were Minato's parents, for example?
How is the Uzumaki clan related to the Senju?

Based on some of the 2nd Hokage's comments, I can't help but wonder if he's blood related to the 4th, often unique jutsu (like the Flying Thunder God) are passed down from parent to child, or within the clan.


That said, I'm hoping for a short fight in which Naruto simply overpowers Sasuke. I know it'll probably be a long, drawn out fight, but I can hope.

[Shinagami]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Look this is the exact same nonsense people spewed just before the first iteration of this battle years ago. X is way more powerful than Y, the Rasengan is stronger, it will be a stomp, etc. It's not even worth arguing about Eton coated perfect Susanoo, multiple Chibaku Tensei, teleportation, ridiculously powerful Genjutsu, etc. because the actual feats do not matter.

The fact is that Naruto and Sasuke are the two strongest ninja on earth by a ridiculous margin at this point. The only thing standing between the world and Sasuke's plan is Naruto and vice versa. The fight will be long and go one way then the other a few time before Naruto gains the upper hand and manages somehow to convince Sasuke to stay down and see things his way.

I wouldn't really call it nonsense 8th gate Gai fought Rikkudo Madara ALONE and injured him multiple times. This is the same guy that fought Naruto and Sasuke before and after their powerups at the same time and held his own. Its not far fetched to say that 8th gate Gai could defeat Sasuke.

Originally Posted by ranchan13

I'm HOPING that during this fight we get a little more info on Naruto's lineage.
Who were Minato's parents, for example?
How is the Uzumaki clan related to the Senju?

Based on some of the 2nd Hokage's comments, I can't help but wonder if he's blood related to the 4th, often unique jutsu (like the Flying Thunder God) are passed down from parent to child, or within the clan.


That said, I'm hoping for a short fight in which Naruto simply overpowers Sasuke. I know it'll probably be a long, drawn out fight, but I can hope.

I really hope Minato isn't related to the second Hokage he's character is fine the way it is without some senju explanation for his awesomeness. His one of the only guys in Naruto that don't need a blood line limit or some reincarnation to become Kage level.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Shinagami

I wouldn't really call it nonsense 8th gate Gai fought Rikkudo Madara ALONE and injured him multiple times. This is the same guy that fought Naruto and Sasuke before and after their powerups at the same time and held his own. Its not far fetched to say that 8th gate Gai could defeat Sasuke.

I was calling nonsense the overall point of Sasuke being incapable to deal with the Alliance -or what little remain of it.

Incidentally 8th Gate Gai was indeed ridiculously powerful but he didn't fight alone. 6th Gate Lee, Edo Minato, Kakashi and Gaara fought alongside him taking away Madara's offense and defense which is what allowed Gai to land his blows.
But as I sad those details are irrelevant plotwise. If Gai wasn't dreaming right now and tried to interfere in this fight he would be taken out just as fast as the nine Bijuu because his spotlight has passed.