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Old 2018-04-14, 13:00   Link #2001
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
this is what you're basing your argument on. makes sense now, because that's incorrect.
No it's not. You're mixing things up. Animals look out for their offspring out of instinct. And that's totally different from learning to care about others, which is a matter of empathy.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:03   Link #2002
foxbox360
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Summary for this episode: Misunderstanding and Jealousy mix well with teen angst.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:05   Link #2003
shadow1296
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Here's the difference between Hiro and Ichigo. He regrets his actions when he sees the plain take zero two away. Ichigo does not, and she is going to be the reason someone dies because of her actions. Actions that actively damage her squad because it's to protect hiro, it's for Hiro. But in reality it's completely and only for herself and only herself. If it was for Hiro than she wouldn't have forced herself on him.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:08   Link #2004
mickbis
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Ichigo just enter the route she should not enter and that will hurt her more than she could ever imagine
With this kind of ending waiting for another week will be a pain.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:12   Link #2005
Trung-t-rung
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Originally Posted by Sion Astal View Post
How you can't realize how hypocritical and rubbish is your argument to defend hiro?

Look, we all know that Hiro suffered a lot too, same goes for all of his friends but in this case the one that 100% of the time was completely and absolutely treated like an object, like a weapon, like anything but a person was Zero Two. In the context of this series Hiro and the rest were treated in a good way most of time, especially Hiro who received the best treatement possible until he stopped being the best one out there.

Zero Two came back into his life and everything was going pretty well with a few problems in the way (you mentioned those problems) but he still achieved what he wanted, he still got the person he wanted at his side but all of that was made becase he wanted to do it? No. Everything Hiro obtained was spoonfeed to him, he finally changed because other people pushed him to do it and not because he wanted to. I agree with Kazu-kun on this topic, Hiro is nothing but a spineless character that even after recovering his memories about Zero Two still fails to understand the most basic concepts of relationships, which is something inexcusable because all of the kids knows at least something about human relationships, Zero Two knows nothing about it.

In the end you're failing to understand this whole situation just to defend Hiro, you're pushing the biggest victim card here while ignoring that the one who got the worst here was 02.
Everybody push him? Did Zero Two tell him to oppose gov to pilot for her? Did 02 ever make any attempt before to get him to understand her, or was it Hiro who noticed something wrong and constantly have to probe her for the reason which she brushed off? Was anybody in the squad, except maybe Goro ever help Hiro getting over his depression state in ep 1? I'm sure that him trying his damnest to keep both of them alive instead of getting flattened by a klaxo is because someone pushed him to do that too.

And I'm sure whether IRL or in anime, tragic past does not excuse assaulting others. If my gf beating up all my friends(and probably family as well since the children only live by themselves), I'd be angry with her too.

Zero Two has shown to be someone more knowledgeable in relationship more than the sheltered children here? Except Hiro seemed to be the one who's actually working to make it permanent and something deeper while 02 was perfectly content with the usual
flirting and piloting.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:16   Link #2006
Twi
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Okay, I've seen the episode and taken notes:

Spoiler:


So I'm left wondering... why are some people treating this like the end of the world and Ichigo is the spawn of the devil?

Zero Two didn't try to apologize to them. Not Hiro. To them. She openly admitted she didn't care about things like Teammates after Ichigo admitted she tried to welcome her in, which we've seen time and time again from the Beach Episode, and when she put her foot down as leader Nana had already arranged for her to be gone because Hiro can't ride with her with his yellow count going higher.

When she finally loses her patience, Goro is the one who gets backhanded into a window, yet he's the one trying to keep the peace. Goro and Kokoro, the two most empathetic people in the series and both in love (well, Goro with Ichigo anyway with Kokoro being possibly in love with Mitsuru) ultimately decide to let her go see him. And when he's escaped, she loses what little patience she had and believed that they tricked her, despite the fact they were obviously piecing it together, and promptly floored them.

Hiro comes in to see the downed bodies of his teammates, who has known longer than her, and about how she was calling humans weak. He called her exactly what she was acting like when she revealed she did all that because she didn't get her way, a monster. Not how she looked or her blood, but because she had just hurt everyone. He wasn't happy about it considering he did like her, but he couldn't keep indulging her either and Ichigo stopped him from going after given what just happened.

That had gotten to be a really unhealthy relationship. Some separation will do them some good. As for the kiss... what about it?

Ichigo never said she loved Goro and her interests have largely been about Hiro, who was in a relationship that left him with bruises and he could have been turning into someone who just kicked the collective ass of their group because she wasn't having her way?

I feel bad for Goro, who the series seems to want to suffer, but other than that Zero Two is in the wrong here and it hurts me to say that because I love her.
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Last edited by Twi; 2018-04-14 at 13:27.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:26   Link #2007
EroKing
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Ichigo just blindly in love and craving for the D in Darling, you know the adults don't teach them what it can be used for

Zero Two was treated like an animal since she was a kid to make her comply to these so-called adults. Hell, they aren't that different than Hydra from the Marvel Universe from what was shown in the previous episode. She was molded to be a stone-cold killer, can't expect any kind of rational feelings out of her without some serious therapy and healing.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:29   Link #2008
Mistyclear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxbox360 View Post
Summary for this episode: Misunderstanding and Jealousy mix well with teen angst.
This is exactly what this episode was...and I was not impressed in the least.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:33   Link #2009
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Sergeant View Post
Then what, exactly, do you see as the redeeming qualities of a person?
Going beyond what is expected of a regular human being. You know, selfless acts and such? Something that balances out a character's flaws? Surely this is not rocket science?


Anyway, this was an absolutely amazing episode all around. The team standing up for their teammate, even though they might have overdone it a little. Then there's 02 reaping what she sows. There are some lines you do not cross, girl.


...And of course people misuse the phrase "NTR" again.

And re: friend zoning. I do not like that word. Saying Ichigo "friend zoned" Goro makes it sound like she wronged him in some way. I mean saying she wronged Goro would be like saying she was obligated to answer Goro's feelings for some reason. She most certainly did not give him any conflicting answer. Sure she didn't outright turn him down but she most certainly did not accept. She was being honest.

Btw, I don't expect her and Hiro to go anywhere. Hiro clearly does not see her that way. He clearly still has feelings for 02, which I completely understand. So there.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:35   Link #2010
HtwoN
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Now that I think about it, this episode is like the end of the picture book. The Princess flies away. Now it's up to the Prince to forge a new ending I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
And re: friend zoning. I do not like that word. Saying Ichigo "friend zoned" Goro makes it sound like she wronged him in some way. I mean saying she wronged Goro would be like saying she was obligated to answer Goro's feelings for some reason. She most certainly did not give him any conflicting answer. Sure she didn't outright turn him down but she most certainly did not accept. She was being honest.
i.e. she wanted to keep the backup option available in the case things don't work out with Hiro.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:43   Link #2011
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twi View Post
Zero Two didn't try to apologize to them.
Do you realize she probably doesn't even know what apologizing means? I mean, she lived all her childhood in isolation. They would only let her out to be tortured and experimented on. Then when she grew up she was forced to pilot some stupid robot and partner with people who didn't care about her and saw her as a monster.

You people are expecting her to behave like a fully social and emotionally-functional person. That makes no freaking sense.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:44   Link #2012
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HtwoN View Post
i.e. she wanted to keep the backup option available in the case things don't work out with Hiro.
Wow, that's very harsh. Have you ever experienced a confession from somebody you've never even considered? It's very shocking and confusing. Suddenly you are pressed to make a very difficult decision about something you never thought about, let alone considered. It more than makes sense for her to say "I don't know.".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
You people are expecting her to behave like a fully social and emotionally-functional person. That makes no freaking sense.
Actually, I'm just expecting her to behave like a human being. Which, by Hiro's own admission, she was not doing. There were hundreds of other actions she could have taken from a purely pragmatic perspective, social norms be damned, and she willingly chose the most self destructive one.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:46   Link #2013
Twi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Anyway, this was an absolutely amazing episode all around. The team standing up for their teammate, even though they might have overdone it a little. Then there's 02 reaping what she sows. There are some lines you do not cross, girl.


...And of course people misuse the phrase "NTR" again.

And re: friend zoning. I do not like that word. Saying Ichigo "friend zoned" Goro makes it sound like she wronged him in some way. I mean saying she wronged Goro would be like saying she was obligated to answer Goro's feelings for some reason. She most certainly did not give him any conflicting answer. Sure she didn't outright turn him down but she most certainly did not accept. She was being honest.

Btw, I don't expect her and Hiro to go anywhere. Hiro clearly does not see her that way. He clearly still has feelings for 02, which I completely understand. So there.
Yeah, I'm with you here in this case. I liked the episode itself, showing some real fallout. And your reasons are pretty much aligned with how I saw it. Zero Two made a mistake, but not just to Hiro. She didn't even consider the feelings of the others when she admitted that she didn't care about things like teammates, rather than explaining herself.

At that point, Ichigo had no reason to believe anything she said and they were looking out for Hiro. And when they did give her what she wanted and Hiro wasn't there, she snapped. People were hurt, the kids we actually liked instead of the adult mooks she normally throws around and we cheer.

Her past may be an excuse up until then, but she said she understood what Hiro meant now about wanting to talk while deciding not to talk to them about it so they could understand why she wanted to see him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Do you realize she probably doesn't even know what apologizing means? I mean, she lived all her childhood in isolation. They would only let her out to be tortured and experimented on. Then when she grew up she was forced to pilot some stupid robot and partner with people who didn't care about her and saw her as a monster.

You people are expecting her to behave like a fully social and emotionally-functional person. That makes no freaking sense.
Her childhood in isolation. But she's not a child now. She's a teenager who has traveled enough to know more about the world and plantations than the kids. She knows enough about sexuality to interpret that was what Hiro wanted during his confession, based on her appearance. It was right, but the fact that she could grasp it means she knows.

She's not that little red girl in the snow anymore who couldn't speak. She actively made her decisions here with a mind capable of comprehending actions and consequences, hence she knew she fucked up and considered what happened at the end a punishment.

And if she couldn't apologize, what was she going to say to Hiro?

The past plays an influence on the present, but she's responsible for her actions.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:49   Link #2014
HtwoN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Wow, that's very harsh. Have you ever experienced a confession from somebody you've never even considered? It's very shocking and confusing. Suddenly you are pressed to make a very difficult decision about something you never thought about, let alone considered. It more than makes sense for her to say "I don't know.".
Nah, I'm always the one confessing. But whenever I receive an answer like "I don't know, I need to think about it", I know it's time to move the fuck on.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:50   Link #2015
shadow1296
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Actually, I'm just expecting her to behave like a human being. Which, by Hiro's own admission, she was not doing.
She isn't human, no one outside of the squad and Nana are (and they are only because of an experiment), they have all since lost what it means to be human. 02 was the only one who was treated like the monster she was born as. By this shows actual monsters. You can't expect her to act human. Because she has never experienced true humanity until Hiro and never since.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:53   Link #2016
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
She isn't human, no one outside of the squad and Nana are (and they are only because of an experiment), they have all since lost what it means to be human. 02 was the only one who was treated like the monster she was born as. By this shows actual monsters. You can't expect her to act human. Because she has never experienced true humanity until Hiro and never since.
100% disagree. After an initial amount of distrust, she was warmly welcomed as a part of the team. It was her own choice to throw that all away. Nobody made her do it.
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Old 2018-04-14, 13:58   Link #2017
shadow1296
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
100% disagree. After an initial amount of distrust, she was warmly welcomed as a part of the team. It was her own choice to throw that all away. Nobody made her do it.
You really need to go back and watch those episodes because she was never welcomed into the group, she was always outside it, she only interacted with Hiro. The only episode she interacted with anyone else in the group was the boys vs. girls episode and that was because to the other girls she was screwing up their stance. She was never truly a part of it
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Old 2018-04-14, 14:01   Link #2018
Twi
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Originally Posted by shadow1296 View Post
You really need to go back and watch those episodes because she was never welcomed into the group, she was always outside it, she only interacted with Hiro. The only episode she interacted with anyone else in the group was the boys vs. girls episode. She was never truly a part of it

The beach episode she was welcomed in, Zero Two decided to stay away to keep swimming. She's been pushing them away, not the other way around. As Dengar put it, this was her decision because she believed that she couldn't mesh with them, so she didn't bother giving them a chance.

These kids were easily the most accepting group she'd ever find, even after they learned about her three ride rule and she manhandled Mitsuru (he was asking for it), and she treated them like they were fodder and admitted it. Remember, this episode Goro and Kokoro were the ones who decided to try and convince Ichigo to let her see Hiro even after that and she still beat them down.

The girl sabotaged herself.
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Old 2018-04-14, 14:03   Link #2019
EroKing
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The one true ending
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

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Old 2018-04-14, 14:04   Link #2020
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Twi View Post
Her childhood in isolation. But she's not a child now. She's a teenager who has traveled enough to know more about the world and plantations than the kids.
That's not how things work. It's really hard for kids who weren't loved to learn to care later on in their lives. And for her it's worse because she was treated like shit and tortured. It doesn't matter what she saw as a teenager. At this point she's already predisposed to not trust anyone. She has no reason to feel like she has to apologize to anyone and she's not gonna change unless someone actually makes the effort to help her change. And there's a chance it's already to late even for that. Maybe at this point all Hiro can do for her is to accept her as a monster and become a monster himself to be with her.
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