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Old 2018-01-21, 01:43   Link #201
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It's not like A-1 is alien to fanservice. In fact I'd say butt shots are kind of their specialty. SAO is full of them.
So, blatant fanservice, right? This is no different, and the concept of the show actually strengthen it. Throw in sexual symbolism and you get the idea. Kill la Kill anyone?

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I'm may be making some assumptions but my point was sound enough considering what we've seen so far. But we'll see.
That's right. We'll see .

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It's just fanservice.
Even fanservice has variations .
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Old 2018-01-21, 01:49   Link #202
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
the concept of the show actually strengthen it.
Look at it the other way around. The concept of a show featuring some shady organization using kids and their sexual desires for their own purposes doesn't get strengthened by shoehorning fanservice to sells BDs. It actually defeats the point. This is exactly the sort of show that would benefit from a more subtle less gratuitous approach because it actually deals with sexuality.
Quote:
Even fanservice has variations
Different smell. Same crap.
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:05   Link #203
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Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Look at it the other way around. The concept of a show featuring some shady organization using kids and their sexual desires for their own purposes doesn't get strengthened by shoehorning fanservice to sells BDs. It actually defeats the point. This is exactly the sort of show that would benefit from a more subtle less gratuitous approach because it actually deals with sexuality.
I don't think using kids' sexual desire so that they can pilot the giant robots is necessarily wrong if that's the only way for humanity to survive the Klaxosaurs. But we'll see how things will unfold regarding that. And if you gotta do something regardless, why not make it looks cool and sexy? Especially when the show is not aiming for subtlety.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Different smell. Same crap.
Hey, at least you don't use simple numbers anymore. So that's a tiny step in the right direction .
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:10   Link #204
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
I don't think using kids' sexual desire so that they can pilot the giant robots is necessarily wrong if that's the only way for humanity to survive the Klaxosaurs. But we'll see how things will unfold regarding that.
We do need to see a bit more, but so far the show doesn't seem to paint them in a good light, considering they're depicted as a bunch of shady old geezers treating the kids as disposable assets. We're not talking Gendo Ikari here. These guys aren't portrayed with that sort of ambiguity as far as I can see.

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And if you gotta do something regardless, why not make it looks cool and sexy? Especially when the show is not aiming for subtlety.
There's nothing cool and sexy about a bunch of 14 year old kids in the doggy position, to be honest. It's just gratuitous crap. The only one who's kinda cool and sexy is 002 because she's in command of her sexuality to some extent. The other kids have no idea what they're doing, or more specially what the adults are making them do.
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:15   Link #205
shadow1296
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whether this is A-1 doing or triggers doing,(i am going to go with trigger as they are the only ones who have this crazy of a concept) this series is going to have a lot of fanservice i just hope we can to the fun mecha action part soon because i really need a good mecha to come out of japan soon, and knights and magic and gundam IBO did not fill that void as much as i'd hoped they would
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:21   Link #206
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Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
We do need to see a bit more, but so far the show doesn't seem to paint them in a good light, considering they're depicted as a bunch of shady old geezers treating the kids as disposable assets.
So far, I think they treated the kids not much worse than how the best governments treated their best soldiers (or maybe athletes). And in this setting, the kids are basically just that. And there's also the fact that the entire humanity seem to be cornered with not many alternatives left.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
There's nothing cool and sexy about a bunch of 14 year old kids in the doggy position, to be honest. It's just gratuitous crap. The only one who's kinda cool and sexy is 002 because she's in command of her sexuality to some extent. The other kids have no idea what they're doing.
Meh, it's anime-relativism. The exaggerated shot of the bodies look like the shape of mature women. Thank god this is not Strike Witches that's full of loli/underage bodies with exposed (kiddy) panties and (kiddy) swimsuit crotches .
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:23   Link #207
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
So far, I think they treated the kids not much worse than how the best governments treated their best soldiers (or maybe athletes). And in this setting, the kids are basically just that. And there's also the fact that the entire humanity seem to be cornered with not many alternatives left.
You have to look at the whole portrayal, how they appear as a shady and mysterious organization and such. It could be just misdirection but chances are they're actually a bunch of self-entitled assholes.

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Meh, it's anime-relativism. The exaggerated shot of the bodies look like the shape of mature
That's just a rationalization to avoid the issue.

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Thank god this is not Strike Witches that's full of loli/underage bodies with exposed (kiddy) panties and (kiddy) swimsuit crotches
It's actually worse than Strike Witches because this show deals with sexuality while exploiting it at the same time. Strike Witches is a fanservice fest but they're more straightforward and honest about it.
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:26   Link #208
Oberstein
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The manga version btw has out and i WAY love the manga Zero two than anime version
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:33   Link #209
seiftis
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Since she is ZeroTwo... i'm wondering who is ZeroOne and what happened to him.
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:35   Link #210
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Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
You have to look at the whole portrayal, how they appear as a shady and mysterious organization and such. It could be just misdirection but chances are they're actually a bunch of self-entitled assholes.
They're basically higher-up politicians. Being shady is just natural . I personally will look more at how the kids are treated in this desperate times of the setting (given all the treatments they receive are necessary for humanity's survival).

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
That's just a rationalization to avoid the issue.

It's actually worse than Strike Witches because this show deals with sexuality while exploiting it at the same time. Strike Witches is a fanservice fest but they're more straightforward and honest about it.
I simply don't think so or I think the contrary.

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Originally Posted by Roxis View Post
The manga version btw has out and i WAY love the manga Zero two than anime version
Of course you are .
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:45   Link #211
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
They're basically higher-up politicians. Being shady is just natural.
Not every anime depicts their higher-ups this unambiguously shady. But whatever flips your boat. We'll see soon enough anyway.

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I simply don't think so or I think the contrary.
Sure. But the point makes sense either way.
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Old 2018-01-21, 02:58   Link #212
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I don't think this is a very difficult question. He got aroused when kissing Zero Two and not when kissing Ichijo. Intriguingly, she didn't seem as unaware of the concept of kissing as Hiro did. She knew what it was, got out of her seat, and kissed him. As Kazu-kun said, it didn't seem to click for her either.
None of the others seem to lose their memories though. I am not saying it's just that they sit in a reverse position. But something is different. Also given how all her other partners die.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I don't think so. Like I said before, the show isn't clever enough to reverse their roles in the cockpit. Besides you can see that 002's combat suit has the monitor helmet and butt handles just like the other girls.
It's not that clever. Not any more than other sexual innuendo in the show. It's kind of obvious actually. Just that they may not go for the main male hero being "the bottom".
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Old 2018-01-21, 03:05   Link #213
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Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Not every anime depicts their higher-ups this unambiguously shady. But whatever flips your boat. We'll see soon enough anyway.
Indeed, but if the kids in the mechas are the only things that are standing between humanity and Klaxosaurs and there's really no better alternative, we can't really blame the adults for exploiting the kids' sexual desires to get things done (if that's really the case), except those who went too far in exploiting the kids. The kids depiction in Gundam IBO comes to mind as an example of how adults can be such dicks to kids. We'll see with this one, but so far, they're treated rather reasonably in this setting.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Sure. But the point makes sense.
As well as my point. Why do you think many people were surprised when they first realized that the Sailor Scouts' age are ranging between 14 to 16? That's simply because anime depictions often don't look their age . On one hand, what appears on-screen as characters with mature and hot bodies are actually underage girls, and on the other hand, we have petite girls with childlike bodies who are actually mature women . That's why I just throw them into relativism (except for realistic characters).
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Old 2018-01-21, 03:05   Link #214
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by _Ninja_ View Post
None of the others seem to lose their memories though. I am not saying it's just that they sit in a reverse position. But something is different. Also given how all her other partners die.
It was implied they die because piloting with her makes them age faster. It was stated they didn't find signs of aging in Hiro though, so it looks like he's immune to her "curse" somehow.

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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Indeed, but if the kids in the mechas are the only things that are standing between humanity and Klaxosaurs and there's really no better alternative, we can't really blame the adults for exploiting the kids' sexual desires to get things done (if that's really the case), unless those who went too far in exploiting the kids. The kids depiction in Gundam IBO comes to mind as an example of how the adults can be such dicks to kids. We'll see with this one, but so far, they're treated rather reasonably.
You know they could have the kids fight without exploiting them, right? It doesn't matter if they're doing this for humanity's sake. The way they go about it is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
As well as my point. Why do you think many people were surprised when they first realized that the Sailor Scouts' age are ranging between 14 to 16? That's simply because anime depictions often don't look their age . On one hand, what appears on-screen as characters with mature and hot bodies are actually underage girls, and on the other hand, we have petite girls with childlike bodies who are actually mature women . That's why I just throw them into relativism (except for realistic characters).
Fanservice is just fanservice. I personally don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it unless it's at odds with what the show is about or trying to say. You can't have your cake and eat it too. And again, there's nothing sexy or cool about these kids being forced into sexual positions when they don't even understand what sex is about. That's just pitiful. And the fact their pitiful ignorance is used as fanservice is pretty shitty stuff.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2018-01-21 at 03:21.
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Old 2018-01-21, 03:24   Link #215
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Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
You know they could have the kids fight without exploiting them, right? It doesn't matter if they're doing this for humanity's sake. The way they go about it is wrong.
How? The anime still haven't shown us any other alternatives that can make the kids pilot their robots well other than what we're shown so far. Or are you talking about meta-reasons?

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Fanservice is just fanservice. I personally don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it unless it's at odds with what the show is about or trying to say. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Although I still don't find anything sexy or cool about these kids being forced into sexual positions when they don't even understand what sex is about. That's just pitiful. And the fact that they're use their pitiful ignorance as fanservice does rubs me the wrong way.
Again, relativism. The witches in Strike Witches (some underage) are also "forced" to expose their panties to battle aliens when the writers can simply make them wear more decent outfits, and you deemed that show to be better. It's all relative.

And the odds that you're talking about simply isn't there (yet?).
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Old 2018-01-21, 03:30   Link #216
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
How? The anime still haven't shown us any other alternatives that can make the kids pilot their robots well other than what we're shown so far.
The kids don't necessarily have to do anything different but it would make a difference if they weren't treated as disposable slaves and also if they were properly educated so they would actually knew what the fuck they're doing instead of being ignorant puppets.

Quote:
Again, relativism. The witches in Strike Witches (some underage) are also "forced" to expose their panties to battle aliens when the writers can simply make them wear more decent outfits, and you deemed that show to be better. It's all relative.
You're missing the point. I was taking about being forced in-universe. I deemed Strike Witches better because it's perfectly normal to show off their crotches for them in-universe. It's only fanservice for the audience but inside the story is perfectly fine. In this show on the other hand the characters suffer a double exploitation. They're exploited by the shady organization in-universe and they're exploited as fanservice for the audience. The latter cheapens the point they're making with the former.
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Old 2018-01-21, 03:54   Link #217
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Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The kids don't necessarily have to do anything different but it would make a difference if they weren't treated as disposable slaves and also if they were properly educated so they would actually knew what the fuck they're doing instead of being ignorant puppets.
We still don't know what they do to kids who can't pilot. Even Hiro's first female partner who failed seems to received a proper medical treatment when injured.

And the kids know what they are doing. Education-wise and academic-wise, the only things that are mysterious to them (so far) is the secret behind the aptitude test and how can a person like 02 exists. You can categorize both points as top secret need-to-know matters.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
You're missing the point. I'm taking about being forced in-universe. I deemed Strike Witches better because it's perfectly normal to show off their crotches for them in-universe. It's only fanservice for the audience but inside the story is perfectly fine. In this show on the other hand the characters suffer a double exploitation. They're exploited by the shady organization in-universe and they're exploited as fanservice for the audience. The latter cheapens the point they're making with the former.
And you think the witches in SW aren't universally forced to fight with flashing their panties? You really think that they won't cover their crotches if given the choice?

So far, Hiro's friends in Franxx aren't forced to perform sexual deeds to pilot their robots. Ichigo kissing Hiro in this episode is solely Ichigo's decision in which Hiro only innocently offered the idea of it (which still makes sense given his experience). The adults didn't really force the kids to make out or anything (so far). 02's sexual method is presented as the exception rather than the rule (so far). The piloting positions are silly, but who knows? Maybe there's an in-universe explanation for it. If not then you can file that into "writer's whim"-category like the panty-thing in SW.
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Old 2018-01-21, 04:02   Link #218
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
We still don't know what they do to kids who can't pilot. Even Hiro's first female partner who failed seems to received a proper medical treatment.
First episode clearly suggests those who can't pilot are disposed off. We need confirmation but we can't ignore those hints. And the kids are not properly educated and not given any choices either. They're actually indoctrinated into believing piloting the robots is their whole meaning in life.

Quote:
And you think the witches in SW aren't universally forced to fight with flashing their panties? You really think that they won't cover their crotches if given the choice?
I never got the feeling that they felt ashamed about it. They seemed perfectly fine with it, or rather the concept of feelings ashamed by showing off their panties just didn't exist in their world as far as I can see. And more importantly, they weren't forced to become witches. They didn't need to show off their crotches if they didn't become witches and they had that choice.

Quote:
So far, Hiro's friends in Franxx aren't forced to perform sexual deeds to pilot their robots.
The position they're forced into is sexual in and of itself.

Quote:
Ichigo kissing Hiro in this episode is solely Ichigo's decision
Yes, but Hiro pretty much said it was necessary for him to be able to pilot, and they know they have to produce results or they run the risk of being disposed off. Don't forget last episode Hiro himself was almost taken away.
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Old 2018-01-21, 04:21   Link #219
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Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
First episode clearly suggests those who can't pilot are disposed off. We need confirmation but we can't ignore those hints. And the kids are not properly educated and not given any choices either. They're actually indoctrinated into believing piloting the robots is their whole meaning in life.
So, we need to know what this so-called "disposed off" actually means. Do they use those orphans for labor, or kill them and use as food?

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I never got the feeling that they felt ashamed about it. They seemed perfectly fine with it.
Yes, because they can only use their witch machines with full potential that way. And the world already (long?) accepted that the witches wear such outfits, just like how the piloting positions in Franxx is already established in its world and the kid-pilots are fine with it.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The position they're forced into is sexual in and of itself.
It is established in-universe (like SW's panty-machines) and nobody made a fuss about it (like SW's panty-machines).

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Yes, but Hiro pretty much said it was necessary for him to be able to pilot, and they know they have to produce results or they run the risk of being disposed off. Don't forget last episode Hiro himself was almost taken away.
Hiro seem to be overly obsessed with piloting. Even his friends thought that Hiro's initial decision of leaving the Plantation once he deemed unable to pilot as something extreme. He was given the right to stay and (what seemed to be) accommodated living with no outside pressure to leave the Plantation. Still, I wanna see what other career options the non-pilot orphan kids can get in this setting. Considering the post-apocalyptic setting, maybe not much, but they're still something.
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Old 2018-01-21, 04:29   Link #220
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
So, we need to know what this so-called "disposed off" actually means. Do they use those orphans for labor, or kill them and use as food?
I don't know, but none of that sounds fun to me.

Quote:
Yes, because they can only use their witch machines with full potential that way. And the world already (long?) accepted that the witches wear such outfits, just like how the piloting positions in Franxx is already established in its world and the kid-pilots are fine with it.
They can't be fine with it when they don't even know about sexuality. On top of that they don't even have the choice to not pilot. They are told piloting is all they can do and they're disposed off if they don't do it. The witches on the other hand can choose not to become witches. They have that choice. And their lack of shame is not due to ignorance.

Quote:
He was given the right to stay
To try piloting again. They probably thought he still had some potential.
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