2011-08-28, 17:51 | Link #41 | |||||
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You are correct that silence is useful and you don't need it all the time. I'm just saying it's not used very much, and the BGMs that do show up are almost always the same, making it extremely bland. They say a good background music isn't going to come up to the forefront and distract people. But it needs to be there, somewhere. Quote:
See, this is not a complaint I usually use for the majority of anime. I'm generally not very critical of these things unless I don't feel it's there. Quote:
Well, how about less memorable music? I'm actually watching an episode (what was it? The end of the Einshi arc where it became really notable. I hated .hack sign, but I'll be damned if I said the music there wasn't anything short of awesome. So I'm not going out of my way to make this criticism; I certainly liked watching HSI enough to not make unwarranted criticism of it, nor would I bother trying to convince myself this show is bad or anything. It started in episode 3. Yes, I know it's one of the weaker ones, but most notably during the car chase scene. Now, people can go on about how crap that episode was, but it could have at least been humorous. But the BGM didn't help at all. That's an example of a missed opportunity to set the mood. And yes, I know that YnS is a pretty high standard, but I'm just using that as an example of it done right. Otherwise I'm just comparing to thin air, and nobody wants that. Didn't I already say that before? I'm not saying "It's not as good as Yosuga no Sora, it's shit". I'm saying it could be more like in that vein to be considered good. Quote:
True Tears, at least I could feel the emotional tension between the characters. It set itself up as a dramatic romantic drama. It's not the most complex of things, but hey I could watch it and be like hey I'm on the stage of this show. TT doesn't have the most awesome soundtrack either. But it works. Noe's theme? A character defining song that outlines her personality perfectly. Sono Mama no Boku de? One of the most appropriate inserts to sum the mood? Hey, I remember these things existed and the scenes associated with them. That is what works. That is quality use of sound.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2011-08-28 at 18:17. |
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2011-08-29, 06:56 | Link #42 | |
is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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2011-08-30, 13:49 | Link #43 | |||||||||
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
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The music is there, but since it doesn't attract attention to itself, it goes by unnoticed unless you pay attention to it. Quote:
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I disagree. Music placement is only a significant part of the process. Everything is centered around the actual OST. Let me give you an example, The World God Only Knows anime. It has a fantastic OST, and the audio management is pretty fitting (though it improves by the second season, finally reaches a high point by the mid way point) but no matter how well it's used, the fact that there isn't a single track that can be described as comedic in nature cripples the show, to the point where there are comedy sketches with no BGM at all, in between dramatic scenes filled with different BGM. The usage is important (e.g. Blood-C has some pretty great usage of it's BGM, while Fractale has some of the most hideous music placement I've heard all year long, and both had great OST) but unless the OST itself is well made (and fitting for the show) then it wont matter how well it's used. Quote:
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When I said that you were trying to convince yourself that the ''filler'' episodes had less music, I wasn't saying that you were actively to go out of your way to make it seem like there were faults with the show on more technical levels, but that your dislike for these episodes made them seem like they had lower amount of music in them. Now maybe you don't like the actual tracks used during episode 3, since it was more humorous than usual. The episode itself was more humorous than the past two episodes, I'll admit. I thought it was fitting usage of the score and helped to highlight how lighthearted the episode was, but you thought that it could've been more toned down so not to appear as being too comedic. I don't agree with that since I think that the BGM should match the tone of the scenes, but I still think that's a fair critique. I disagree that it ruined the mood since I think it fit perfectly with the mood of the episode, but I'll agree it did not fit with the tone the series gave off in the past two episodes. Does that mean it's the fault of the BGM? In my eyes, no. Quote:
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That, and Hanasaku doesn't have scenes of the same magnitude and effect on the viewer as True Tears had. It certainly tries, but what it does well is when it doesn't go big with the climax of it's arcs (since it's not really all that suited to have such things).
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2011-08-30, 20:55 | Link #44 | |
Lets be reality
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I thought he did a really good job of conveying emotion throughout his music, which you really don't see that much these days. To me when I hear the True Tears tracks I have images of the series pop up in my head, it has the emotional attachment, it's like listening to a good jrpg music score. Last edited by Westlo; 2011-08-30 at 22:46. |
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2011-08-30, 22:39 | Link #45 | ||||||
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And that is: If not Okada, then who? Anime originals are thankfully on the rise lately, but they're still very much the exception and not the rule. A fair number of recent anime originals were wrote by Okada: Anohana, Hanasaku Iroha, and True Tears (possibly amongst others). None of these three anime shows are perfect (no, not even True Tears), but they're all at least generally competent, shall we say. They've also been very well-received, and I've also enjoyed them a lot. True Tears, in particular, I count amongst my all-time favorites. This isn't true of all anime originals (such as KyoAni's Munto). The anime industry isn't exactly overflowing with proven writers for anime originals. Moreso than any love for Okada, this is why I'm considerably skeptical of your earlier stated sentiment of wanting PA Works to get rid of Okada. What proven anime original writer would you like to see take her place? Because I certainly don't want to see P.A. Works cease to make anime originals - The fact they do a fair number, and do them at least with general competence, is what I find so distinctively valuable about P.A. Works. Now, before you mention "Gen Urobuchi"... Yes, in many ways, he's a better writer than Okada. However, I have serious doubts as to how well Gen's generally grimdark stories would mesh with PA Works' generally very bright and moe artistic style. Yes, Madoka Magica had moe character designs, but "SHAFT being SHAFT" helped bridge the gap between that and Gen's much darker touch. So, putting aside Gen here, who would you like to see replace Okada as a top writer for anime originals for P.A. Works? I certainly can't think of anybody. And if PA Works continues to do anime originals, they're going to need someone on staff who can write anime originals and do "series compositions" for anime originals. I'm not saying that Okada is absolutely fantastic, but at least she's tried, tested, and true. She's a proven writer of generally competent anime originals (in the case of Anohana and True Tears, many hold one or both in very high regard). I can't speak for Reckoner and Archon_Wing, but for me at least, that's why I do tend to hold Okada in high regard. Now as to more specific critiques... Quote:
It's ironic, though, because I'm actually inclined to believe that Executive Meddling is the cause of HSI's biggest problems, rather than such Executive Meddling actually being needed (as would be the case if "Protection From Editors" is the issue). True Tears was very well-received by most of those who watched it, but it did not sell well. So in my mind, it's much more likely that the PA Works head honchos are thinking to themselves... 'Okada is a good writer, but we can't trust her to make something commercially viable without making her add in some more marketable elements. So with Hanasaku Iroha, we'll ask her to sex it up some!' than... 'Okada is a sure money-winner for us! We better give her free reign to do whatever she wants, because there's no way we can afford to lose her!' tl;dr - You think Hanasaku Iroha's problems are mostly due to Okada being given more free reign. I think that Hanasaku's Iroha problems are mostly due to Okada not being given enough free reign, and likely being told to write-in certain elements by her bosses. Quote:
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Now, if you can suggest to me an anime original writer that you think could do better for PA Works than Okada has, then I'm all ears. I can't think of one myself though. On the HSI BGM debate... I haven't really noticed it either way, to be honest with you and Archon. So it's neither a big positive, or a big negative, to me. I can't think of many times when HSI's BGM has annoyed me, but nor can I think of many times when it's really impressed me and added a lot to the scene. Wait... it does have this one score that I really like, and is in my head right now. So that's something I guess. On the whole though, I don't see BGM being a big positive or negative for the show. It could be worse. I've watched a few anime shows where the BGM actually annoyed me sometimes.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-08-30 at 22:55. |
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2011-08-30, 22:41 | Link #46 |
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Soundtrack for TT was indeed excellent. Not only were the songs good, but they fit in with the series' atmosphere damn well. Examples:
Spoiler for Save space:
So yeh, HSI pales in comparison to TT's soundtrack. However, I wouldn't go as far and say HSI's OST is terrible or anything, just maybe not really noticeable. Then again, there are only a handful of OSTs that I would actually go and listen outside of watching anime - mostly Tenmon or Yuki Kajiara. Last edited by Pocari_Sweat; 2011-08-30 at 22:52. |
2011-08-30, 22:57 | Link #47 |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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Man listening to the OST is getting me so nostalgic for the show, now I feel like rewatching it even though my current backlog is so horrendous.
Such a triumphant second half to that song, when the OST came out a month before the series ended my confidence levels in someone winning was sky high after hearing the full version of the song. Ah fuck it I never did watch the extended ending from the Bluray Boxset, gonna start on this again. Like how I doubt Bones will ever surpass RahXephon I doubt P.A Works will ever surpass True Tears. |
2011-08-30, 23:42 | Link #48 | |
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But given Anohana's success (proof that "Key/Kyoani"-style melodrama is what sells) and True Tears bombing (and Wandering Son, which I felt had similar style/vibes as TT. It also bombed), I feel skeptical about even the supposedly great "Mari Okada" about writing more works that show her more subtle, dialogue-centric, non-hammy style that I admired. In other words I expect to see less True Tears and Wandering Son and more Clannad and Anohana in the future, which is a damn shame. Not saying Key or Anohana is bad though. It's still good, but personally I think it is far too melodramatic and hammy for me to consider it the masterpiece a lot of people are claiming it to be. I mean have a look at the Anohana episode discussions. Basically it was a e-peen contest on how much people cried |
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2011-08-31, 01:19 | Link #49 | |||||||
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Madoka, Mai-HiME, Kaiji, Akagi, Clannad, Death Note, Haruhi, Evangelion, Shakugan no Shana, Angel Beats, Umineko, Yosuga no Sora, Ghost in the Shell, Durarara Hell, even Ore no Imouto and Okami Kakushi. I'd say, I've sought out BGMs from their OSTs. You could say a lot of these tend to be more of a dramatic and more blatant note, but they also have their lighthearted and more subtle moments as well. I could probably single out individual soundtracks, but I don't want to fill the page. Durarara frequently had low key BGM that worked, I'd say though. Quote:
When I mean it's all that matters, I mean that if it fails at that, it automatically fails because it failed to do the job. I never implied music quality and placement were mutually exclusive. Actually botching either will result in failure. Unlimited Blade Works had GREAT music that works well as standalone. The way it's used is another story. Anyhow, my point is you can't just see individual soundtracks in a vacuum. The only way to view them is part of the viewing experience. Quote:
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You're right that HSI doesn't pack the same punch and isn't supposed to. I agree. Unfortunately, it's not a very subtle anime either, so there's nothing left, sadly. Except for comedy. But actually you have a point, and why this probably won't go anywhere. The show just has a hard time convincing me on why I should care, and I'm a person that's unable to appreciate stuff I am unable to form a connection to, be it stories or musical score. [Though there's a handful of things that I do care about, which kept me tuned in] And the forum sucks at quoting quotes... if I didn't respond to anything here, then I agree. Quote:
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2011-08-31 at 01:33. |
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2011-08-31, 17:43 | Link #50 | |
is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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Listened to it many times after watching the last episode years ago. ;_; Spoiler for True Tears last episode:
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Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2011-08-31 at 21:49. |
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2011-09-01, 03:42 | Link #51 |
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As much as the TT soundtrack is great I've always felt that the Canaan OST is greatly underrated
It's done by Hikaru Nanase who's one of my favorites out there and is about the only thing where I've got no complaints when it comes to Canaan. It's very much a "in your face" OST that takes from hollywood blockbusters,it did a great job of intensifying the scenes and while at first I thought it wouldn't be as good standalone I was pleasantly surprised when I listened to it and I could immediately recall the scenes a song was used in.
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2012-03-05, 09:34 | Link #52 |
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Bump, but I think it isn't that inappropriate.
It appears that Another is well received amongst the anime community and it wasn't as divided as say Hanasaku Iroha once we got to know that anime's true colours, since the debut episode was misleading. Though we will have to see how it sells. My guess is that it will either break-even or make a slight profit given there isn't much "otaku-bait" outside of the occasional Mei moe. And the beach episode... which was actually not bad given it was a frigin beach episode. Given it's PA's first adaptation, I think they did pretty well and is a potential candidate where A-class VNs, LNs and possibly manga to be adapted into the animated medium. What do other fellow posters think? |
2012-03-05, 11:36 | Link #53 | |
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I disagree that it's been a good adaptation. The series feels incredibly drawn out and they had to include a new episode that wasn't in the original work to fit the story in 12 episodes. The artwork, which you could truly attribute to P.A., has been fantastic and I have no complaints about it. I think the problem lies with the series composition. Another was decently received amongst the Japanese fanbase as well. It's just not a type of show that'll sell well and recoup production costs by disc sales alone.
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2012-03-05, 21:27 | Link #55 |
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Another is definatly my favorite PA works anime along with True Tears.Though DVD/Blu ray sales are looking pretty bad (guess the beach episode wasn't enough )
I guess they'll try and make up for it with whatever that new Hanasaku Iroha anime will be.
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2012-03-05, 22:22 | Link #56 |
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Another's poor sales probably has more to do with Japanese otakus just not being much into Mystery/Horror than it has to do with P.A. Works in particular. Blood-C, Umineko, and Ookami Kakushi all also bombed, IIRC. I'm really starting to think that this genre just doesn't have a significant market amongst modern Japanese otakus. Another is Mystery/Horror done almost to perfection, and it has the added bonus of arguably moe character designs, so if it can't get this genre to sell, then I don't know what can.
Still, I was hoping that P.A. Works might have gained some brand name loyalty after AnoHana and HSI's success, but Another seems to strongly suggest otherwise.
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2012-03-05, 22:57 | Link #57 | |
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I really don't think P.A works has a lot of brand recognition.Their best seller,Angel Beats,is associated more with Key and Jun Maeda than them. HSI is their only other commercial success.
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2012-03-06, 04:46 | Link #59 | ||
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I think the show is far from a representative work for PA Works though. Gloss and pretty backdrops can't hide the limited budget (painfully obvious in the first episode, which isn't the best way to impress viewers), and the exceptional layouts of Canaan and Hanasaku Iroha are sorely missed. Another may be a PA Works show, but it lacks the sumptuous qualities (through no fault of their own, mind you) that gave the studio its reputation. Quote:
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2012-03-06, 08:14 | Link #60 | |
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And Another has been very well-received from what I can tell. That didn't stop it from bombing.
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We're talking about anime sales here, not game sales. Those are two different things. What's popular in one medium isn't necessarily popular in another. I can't think of a single Mystery/Horror anime since Higurashi that sold well as an anime (and no, Madoka Magica doesn't count - It has some Mystery and Horror in it, but I wouldn't classify either as its primary genre). Can you think of one?
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p.a. works, studios |
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