(L) Simoun

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Matrim

Spoiler:

Nah, if that was their goal they could have done it without any surprising gender choices - let's say by keeping Aaeru and Neviril imprisoned in a single cell, giving them ample time to really know each other, if you know what I mean. They could have also turned one of the Paraietta, ALti and Kaimu into a man, the other two into a couple for the fanboys. Plus, Strawberry Panic has already claimed this market niche (plotless yuri, I mean) for Studio DEEN, I doubt many people would buy the Simoun DVDs just because there are more yuri couples in the end, although you never know.

Spoiler:

That's a good point. I guess if they really wanted to cater to the yuri fans, they've had lots of other (better) opportunities to do so.
Well, even if it wasn't done to maintain the yuri, it was a little boring
This is what I get for all my speculating, I guess.

[fignae]

Spoiler for me realizing that yikes, it does reveal something about episode 25:

Originally Posted by Yaya-chan

Hmm..dunno...maybe because the Plumbum priestesses had already "started" the Simoun?

And it didn't need an additional injection of power, true. Okay, then it was a move that made sense and worked.

Originally Posted by wowo

... without any passionate couples! Or any angsty relationships! Around episodes 10-18 I was expecting character development and interesting character interactions, but the height of the show seems like it was the very beginning (eps 2 is my all time favorite), and the middle of the show.
I guess I like my Mai HiME angst and cheap drama.

Odd; I didn't like HiME for angst. But I liked the second series more, too, because it was slashier and we got Mashiro v2. Back on topic, I'm interested in this assessment. I feel that there wasn't angst, but thinking on individual episodes, there was! It's just understated a lot of the time, and the dark underbelly of sequences is never brought to light.... Like FatPianoBoy said, it was mostly about ordinary life. This transition time was intense but treated lightly (ep 24) because the focus was the macro-level perspective. Limited omniscience. And naturally, this approach is lacking when it comes to personal heightened emotion, which it wasn't trying to achieve. No, wait, isn't that from being spread out between too many characters? (That's the one thing I hate.) Instead of being immersed in one person's perspective, we have a process of switching that goes on from episode to episode. There's never quite enough of any single thing. Even of NeviAer.

(I'm rambling. I think I have a high probability of being wrong.)

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

In thinking about the strengths of this show, I believe that the original concept (I think by "Koyamada Fukyoushi," which may be a pseudonym for Aikawa Shou) is wonderful. And so is the way the characters are made real by the script. The character design by Nishida Asako is superb. And so is the music by Sahashi Toshiko. And the voice acting is out of this world (so to speak). But we have sometimes had problems with the direction/storyboard/script of individual episodes.

So I guess for me, the music, the character design, and the voice acting loom so large that I'm happy being strung along. Ah, yes, m000m000's already said that above.

Originally Posted by metronome

@kaoru chujo

your favorite seiyuu, Kuwashima Houko, will sound in black lagoon second barrage, are you gonna watch that?~~

Whaaaaat?! OMG OMG, w00t! Ha, now we have Alti and Guragief in it. (Argh, I demand BL drama cds with female seiyuu!)

[Kaoru Chujo]

This show has enough drama for me, from start to finish. A lot of it is understated, which I like. Can you imagine how some other shows would have handled the Kaimu-Alti scenes? Despite the occasional confusion caused by being excessively understated (or just plain confusing) this show has produced more of that "empty/full chest" emotional feeling in me than any show I can recall.

I have had a chance to see eps 8 and 14 of Mai-HiME, and now I get it: it really seems a good show, with some depth. But no comparison: there is just so much more here in Simoun, for me. I have to admit that monster-fighting on general turns me off, though. I'm looking forward to Ayakashi Ayashi to hear Niino Michi in another role, but the idea of monsters threatening Edo makes me roll my eyes. Random Curiosity has a good preview of almost all the fall shows.

I will certainly look at season 2 of Black Lagoon, now that it has Houchan in it. But I saw a couple of early eps of season one, and it wasn't really my style. I'll keep getting my fix from Saiunkoku Monogatari. She's great there, even though my interest in that show has lost some steam. After Simoun, Nana and Bokura ga Ita, I don't have much emotional energy left, lol.

I really do expect to see some passionate couples -- or at least intimate ones -- in ep26. I was surprised but not disappointed by the various gender choices.

Spoiler for ep25:

Mother Vyura would have been interesting, but Vyuraf works for me. I'll bet Vyura's from a good family, too. What struck me was how Rodore seemed to turn her affection from Mamiina to Vyura. Her gestures and expressions could have been lifted from her later time with Mamiina. But this is not psychologically unlikely. She was quite nurturing in both cases.

And Furoef is an interesting evolution of Floe. I wonder what he sounds like?

As for the number of characters and viewpoints diluting things, I guess that's so. But this was the ensemble cast that I have found easiest to identify (and identify with) as individuals of any anime I've ever watched. I really don't know how they did it: script, voice-acting, character design?

I guess I would be disappointed if at least some of the remaining mysteries aren't solved in ep26.

Spoiler for ep24-25:

The Kyuushuu-sama left Arcus Prima in ep24. Where did she go? What were her hopes for the Emerald Rimaajon? Who is Aaeru's grandfather that she had such doubts of him before? Where do the Simoun come from? Where will NeviAer go?

I feel sure we will see something of this last one, and that we will see where just about everyone is. But it is possible that the ending will be as subtle and unresolved as the body of the show. And that will not be a bad thing.

And what a great ensemble cast we have here in the AS Simoun forum.

[oneplusme]

Originally Posted by Simon

Spoiler for episode 25:

Yet knowing this, Yun still chose/accepted her path (someone could write a whole essay on the theme of duty in this anime). Hearkening back to the words of Aaeru's grandfather, I wonder if her tears were partly her grieving for the possible futures she's turned her back on?

Spoiler for episode 25:

The impression I have, after a little though, is that Yun's tears were because she was somehow feeling the pain and uncertainty of the other girls on their behalf. It would fit with Rodore's comment about feeling as though they were being cradled by her. It would also seem a very fitting choice for Yun, who's spent the whole series looking for a way to atone for failing to save her friends. She saved Onashia, and now, perhaps, she has a way to save many others.

[Yui from Okinawa]

Simulacrum National Railways

Fan novel by fan writer about Simulacrum rail sibylla when the war after....
http://www.geocities.jp/emiri_0623/simoun_lail-way.htm

[Simon]

Originally Posted by oneplusme

Spoiler for episode 25:

The impression I have, after a little though, is that Yun's tears were because she was somehow feeling the pain and uncertainty of the other girls on their behalf. It would fit with Rodore's comment about feeling as though they were being cradled by her. It would also seem a very fitting choice for Yun, who's spent the whole series looking for a way to atone for failing to save her friends. She saved Onashia, and now, perhaps, she has a way to save many others.

Spoiler for ep25:

I like your analysis a lot. I also wonder - partly going by the sound cue - whether the moment Yun cried out was the moment she was accepted by Tempus Spatium as eien no shōjo. Following your line of thought, perhaps she was accepted because of her willingness to share the pain of others.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

3. Here are images of magazine pages about the two new characters in the game. The first is Sairusandora, played by Kitamura Eri, who also played Amuria

I can't quite decide if it's Sairusandora in the middle of the game poster - I'm pretty certain it's her, but not 100%. (YJ has been kind to me today - not only did I win the poster, but I've just picked up one of the Megami promo DVDs. Yay!)

Spoiler for ep25-26 and Amuria:

Kita-eri says that even though her character died in the first episode of Simoun, she has watched all the rest of the series and is a fan of the show.

So does this confirm that Kitamura-san didn't pop back into the studio for ep26? Actually I don't expect to see Amuria again - that exchange between Neviril and Aaeru, when Aaeru was able to say her name without jealousy and Neviril without grief, felt like the moment when the story let her go. I may be wrong, but after 24 episodes of her restless spirit haunting us I think Amuria the character has found peace.

Spoiler for ep25 in general:

Ack, I was meaning to work on the Wiki tonight but I keep watching 25 again. Three subtleties I love about the Maaju pool scene:

1. The silent pan across the characters' faces before we see the Simoun and the music kicks in

2. The way the light spills across the underside of the Simoun as it rises out of the pool (just before we cut back to the top-side camera)

3. The sound of the Simoun itself as it comes to a standstill - I don't know whether it's deceleration or an acoustic effect caused by the barriers around the pool, but there's a change in the noise of the helical motors (at 20:45 on the Freelance raw) that just sounds so incredibly cool...

4. (OK, I lied) The deadpan exchange between Anubituf and Guragief after G. karate-chops the soldier: "An unusually barbaric act coming from you." "Hai." For all the emotion and drama of this show, I've also enjoyed its moments of quiet humour - especially the eyecatches and the way they so brilliantly comment on the story. (Speaking of which, it looks like we get one eyecatch postcard per episode with the DVD first pressings - please oh please let Volume 9 come with Angulas/Yun/Mamiina!)

And what a great ensemble cast we have here in the AS Simoun forum.

This is going to sound pathetically sappy, but after reading the last 36 hours' posts again I'm reminded of Morinas's line on the train: "All our feelings, all at once."

[molitar]

I feel the ending is going to be a big let down. Too many unanswered questions For example how did the body of the priestess from the other side that was blown up end up in the Ancient Simoun? Did they ever recover Mamina's body and give her a proper burial? Hopefully we at least get some answers about the new world and reason that their is so many Ancient Simouns there. But in one episode I don't think were going to get barely any answers. I really tire of anime that end up with a ton of questions and little answers.

[wowo]

Originally Posted by m000m000

Is this just a rumour or an actually confirmed thing? O_o

...Well, whatever they do, I deeply hope they do it in good taste. So far the show itself has not let us down in this aspect, at least. .

Supposedly the director said there will be one in some magazine interview.
Probably Megami.

Originally Posted by fignae

Odd; I didn't like HiME for angst. But I liked the second series more, too, because it was slashier and we got Mashiro v2. Back on topic, I'm interested in this assessment. I feel that there wasn't angst, but thinking on individual episodes, there was! It's just understated a lot of the time, and the dark underbelly of sequences is never brought to light.... Like FatPianoBoy said, it was mostly about ordinary life. This transition time was intense but treated lightly (ep 24) because the focus was the macro-level perspective. Limited omniscience. And naturally, this approach is lacking when it comes to personal heightened emotion, which it wasn't trying to achieve. No, wait, isn't that from being spread out between too many characters? (That's the one thing I hate.) Instead of being immersed in one person's perspective, we have a process of switching that goes on from episode to episode. There's never quite enough of any single thing. Even of NeviAer.

(I'm rambling. I think I have a high probability of being wrong.)

Well, I liked almost everything about HiME, angst and no angst.

As for Simoun, I just felt the climax was too early in the show, that's all. After a certain episode all they did was have long scenes explaining things, while I feel like they had enough time to explain things little by little, as if unfolding a mystery. I read a lot of things where people complained about the first few eps since they are unclear, but that's what I loved - you felt that you were viewing an entirely different world. The later eps are like "ok viewer! Now we're going to have this character angry because of this! And then this country is actually _______! Isn't that interesting?". I don't know, maybe it's sloppy writing, sloppy directing... no idea. It's just not working too well for me. It's interesting, but not spectacular. That's just a taste thing though.
The low-key ending will be fine for me too. I just wish there was more of a feeling of mystery, but I just feel like everything feels so "matter of fact". I don't know... it feels... shallow? Don't get me wrong, I like the story - ah, I don't like the story telling. That's it.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Spoiler:

And Furoef is an interesting evolution of Floe. I wonder what he sounds like?

Spoiler for ep25and26:

From the Floe thread (ok, so I look at some of the character threads on 2ch :P), I read that the director was "really proud of one of the voice actresses for her male voice in the last episode", and I'm guessing he doesn't mean Vyura. But it can be Aaeru or Neviril I guess?

[fignae]

The first one wasn't me but m000m000.

And Wowo, that is a spoiler for episode 26, not 25. Sob.

[wowo]

Eek, sorry fignae!
Fixed.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by molitar

I feel the ending is going to be a big let down. Too many unanswered questions For example how did the body of the priestess from the other side that was blown up end up in the Ancient Simoun? Did they ever recover Mamina's body and give her a proper burial? Hopefully we at least get some answers about the new world and reason that their is so many Ancient Simouns there. But in one episode I don't think were going to get barely any answers. I really tire of anime that end up with a ton of questions and little answers.

Don't lose confidence in the staff yet! They like to reveal things slowly. One episode is plenty, if they do want to reveal some secrets. My own concern (amidst the happy anticipation) is that so much might happen in ep26 that we might lose this feeling of gentle denouement that has been so interesting -- and unusual for any popular entertainment.

As far as we know, Mamiina is still lying among the flowers. I can consider that a proper burial, returning her remains to Tempus Spatium. It was certainly emotionally effective, since we are still talking about it several episodes later.

We are meant to believe that dying in an explosion among helical motors would send someone elsewhere in space and time. Why it sent Anguras (the suicide-bombing miko) to that particular place and time may be at least somewhat answered when we find out (as I trust we will) how the V-Simoun got there.

I have to say, however, that there is one unanswered question that still frustrates me a bit: what happened to the miko in the V-Simoun that was shot down at the Ruins? I doubt we will ever find out now. I wonder if it was something added in the storyboard for that particular episode, just so Chor Tempest would not be seen as completely ineffective, and not part of the overall story.

What anime have left us with too many unanswered questions? There was a little fuzziness at the end of Noein, but I thought we learned enough -- whether or not it was good science.

[oneplusme]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I have to say, however, that there is one unanswered question that still frustrates me a bit: what happened to the miko in the V-Simoun that was shot down at the Ruins?

A crash at that speed, with no safety equipment, and their aircraft disintegrating? I think it's safe to say that they didn't survive.

[Seska]

I've used this scene in my AMV (3rd link)
and i insert this "Script" in these part

"Censord! Trust me, it Hurts!!"

Well, i agree. A hard emercengy landing with this speed and suddely break to 0. No Biological can survied it. No they dont have Airbags and seat-balts. A littel, what you can imagine. See the crashland from Neviril and Moriinass on the Air-Carrier. She hits her head and nearly lost consinousses. and this was a "weaker" slice on the ground.

Now, i dont wanna know what happend to the dead corpses in the serie.
Perhaps, its not better to know what happed to them. Let them rest in peace as are whe have them in memory. Except moriinass body of course.

"Smilie shoot down. Anyway, whe have no use for them now (the pair that was fly it!)" the gist of it....

Mfg,
Seska

[JiCi]

Originally Posted by wowo

Supposedly the director said there will be one in some magazine interview.
Probably Megami.

Who knows... but my hopes are high

[Seska]

And my 2cents for a Remake on DVD, or something else.

Some scenes they should rethink of it.

Spoiler:

Episode 01:

When Nevirils Choir, found that nearly dead fly Simoun under the clouds.

They can shorten the scenes, after she says "You are our only hope, Miko" (or something) they should cut the scene right after it. Dont let the show how they "aboned" the Simoun. (Its against "Sempre Fie!" codex, in all military... or in other words "Ehre" under comrads.sry, dont know that in english).

The last Scene, where you see the enemy Pilot closeup, after the failed Emerald Ri-Majoon. Cut it. Its to much "face" just let the Voice be alone, and use some more screentime of destroying airplanes.

Perhaps some sorf of introduced text, to explain why the "male" looking ones, have a "female" voice all of the sudden. It was a shock in the first for me , and perhaps telling that the "kissing" is tradition for the pairs bevor flying.

Angulas body. Give them a good end. Remove the scene complet where they took the body away, with no telling where they bring her... (Let the death rest in peace. Anyhow if its enemy or friend. Respect it. All relegion need a body to buried the beloved ones).and it gives a human touch to it...

Well Maminnas death is for the storyline. Thats okay with me. But to sacrifie the "Smilie" that was transport her, and then "Anyhow. They was shutdown, now they are useless" gist.... No good... Need rework here.

Well, thats all what i think if goes against my edikette to be a Human, with heart.

Mfg,
Seska

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by molitar

I feel the ending is going to be a big let down. Too many unanswered questions For example how did the body of the priestess from the other side that was blown up end up in the Ancient Simoun?

They can leave everything else ambiguous, but if they don't explain this WTF moment, I'll be a bit irritated. It's too far out there to not give at least a partial explaination or present enough clues to formulate a guess on what happened.

[warainagara]

Originally Posted by wowo

Well, I liked almost everything about HiME, angst and no angst.
As for Simoun, I just felt the climax was too early in the show, that's all. After a certain episode all they did was have long scenes explaining things, while I feel like they had enough time to explain things little by little, as if unfolding a mystery. I read a lot of things where people complained about the first few eps since they are unclear, but that's what I loved - you felt that you were viewing an entirely different world. The later eps are like "ok viewer! Now we're going to have this character angry because of this! And then this country is actually _______! Isn't that interesting?". I don't know, maybe it's sloppy writing, sloppy directing... no idea. It's just not working too well for me. It's interesting, but not spectacular. That's just a taste thing though.
The low-key ending will be fine for me too. I just wish there was more of a feeling of mystery, but I just feel like everything feels so "matter of fact". I don't know... it feels... shallow? Don't get me wrong, I like the story - ah, I don't like the story telling. That's it.
[/spoiler]

I know what you mean since I am a fan of actions and shows with a vigorously unfolding storyline including a clear culmination, rather than psychological dramas.
But maybe we shouldn't expect such things from Simoun.

It is presenting a war, but the story is not really about it.
It is about girls' growth and emotions in the setting of a war.
And the charcaters don't blatantly speak about their thought and feelings,
so we may need to read between the lines tracing their inner parts that were hinted in brief scenes and events, which is a characteristic of psychological dramas.
(don't mean it's a psychological drama, but the language of the show is similar IMO.)

Also, the show have presented some important events but doesn't intend to give a large-scaled picture that they creat by intermingling among themselves.
Rather, it is focusing on what the events brought about on the girls' minds and what they meant to each of them.
In confronting those events, they have realized more about themselves and grown out of their childhood.
And their choices and the union between the main protagonists become of THE CULMINATION of the show, I think.

It may not be a matter of depth of the show.
It's just that the focus and intention are different from those of other mechas or fantasies.
And I believe Simoun has been outstanding in conveying what it was originally intended to show.
The delicate, appealing depiction of the girls' feelings and the coherency of the story are one of the top-notches among the animes I have seen, although I had little troubles with the details.

[Matrim]

I know what you mean since I am a fan of actions and shows with a vigorously unfolding storyline including a clear culmination, rather than psychic dramas.
But maybe we shouldn't expect such things from Simoun.

Maybe? More like obviously, if you ask me. It seems rather obvious to me that the characters emotions and development have a lot higher priority than revealing all the mysteries or setting up a hige cimactic struggle in the end. If Simoun was concentrating on the action we would have probably had Chor Tempest pulling off Kira Yamato and co, kicking the crap out of the elite enemy forces, forcing the Highlands and the Archipelago to sign a new peace treaty. The gender choice ceremony would have probably not been shown, only a few still frames with the results of it. Of course, it's not impossible that Aaeru and Neviril will achieve some heroic feats in the last episode but I doubt this will have much to do with fighting.

It is presenting a war, but the story is not really about it.
It is about girls' growth and emotions in the setting of a war.

Quoted for truth.

Basically, plotwise Simoun is not that great. There are inconsistencies and there is really a lot to be explained. But since emotionwise (is that a word?) it pushes all the right buttons with me, I cannot really bring myself to criticise plot details. If there is a great emotional closure in the end, I really wouldn't care much if a lot of things remain shrouded in mystery and there is no big change in the Simoun world in the end. Something like Haibane Renmei's type of ending would be good enough. And if it includes the sort of spoiler mentioned by wowo - all the better.

[wowo]

I know what you mean since I am a fan of actions and shows with a vigorously unfolding storyline including a clear culmination, rather than psychological dramas.
But maybe we shouldn't expect such things from Simoun.

I'm not expecting those at all lol.

Everything Warainagara and Matrim is saying - I agree! Well, I agree with what was good about Simoun anyway.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't think the last few episodes of Simoun (after the middle area, around episode 16, 17) has those emotional character moments at all. They feel like stiff "character A does this, then character B does that" type of deal.

Seriously, after

Spoiler for eps18 - 25:

Mamiina's death, or even during Mamiina's death. I think the writing was not good. I think "what" is happening is very interesting, but they just don't compare to the little moments from the earlier eps:
- Aaeru first arriving and looking around, calling for Neviril while everyone is trailing behind
- limone munching on her snacks
- Rodoreamon making her slip-ups
- Morinas alsways looking around the Simoun areas
- Kaimu shrugging off her sister

I dunno, I just feel like those "little" character quirks and interactions pretty much disappeared. Suddenly, everything was to move the plot forward or something. There were barely any "meaningless" scenes, where you just saw the character doing what they do.

Bah, I'm not a very good explainer. I just wanted to clear up the misunderstanding that I want some action/angst series from Simoun.

[Kaoru Chujo]

New image on the front page of Nishida Asako's site. Who do you think it is?

Spoiler for who it is:

She says it's Wauf at about 14:

(at 14)

Originally Posted by warainagara

It may not be a matter of depth of the show. It's just that the focus and intention are different from those of other mechas or fantasies. And I believe Simoun has been outstanding in conveying what it was originally intended to show. The delicate, appealing depiction of the girls' feelings and the coherency of the story are one of the top-notches among the animes I have seen, although I had little troubles with the details.

This is just how I feel. Except that I guess I consider concentrating on people's feelings -- as long as it's done well -- to automatically give a show more depth than one that concentrates on plot or external events. But maybe this is a bit of a prejudice.

I'll have to rewatch some mid-late episodes in the light of wowo's interesting comments about how the show changes.