Best Moe Tournament 2011 (Korea)

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

ISML will probably as fail as ever like usual. The staffs should have known already that simple is the best. I treat it as it never exists. LOL

Correction. All moe contests fail.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Correction. All moe contests fail.

Even though Fate actually won ISML before?

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Correction. All moe contests fail.

Unlike ISML, others are still tolerable.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, at least I can end saimoe on this note.

No more; will find somewhere else to troll fanboy.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

Even though Fate actually won ISML before?

Those were good times.

Originally Posted by zato

Unlike ISML, others are still tolerable.

Well, Saimoe cares more about tactical and revenge voting then actually voting for a worthy candidate. Not to mention they seem to have little interest in individual characters, and are merely supporting the series which said character comes from.

Bestmoe...has more problems with multivoting then I can count. You can't take something seriously when it not only reset at one point, but it also consistently alters results after their initial release.

ISML is also a bloody mess. They care way too much about campaigning so now it's akin to some online poll open to everyone with 5minutes to spare. Half of the voters most likely have extreme series limitation and it skews the results to unrepairable levels. I'm pretty confident that most of the exhibition matches were determined by who had the better looking avatar. Not to mention it's basically year round, and repetitive. Oh, and let's not forget predictable.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Well, Saimoe cares more about tactical and revenge voting then actually voting for a worthy candidate..

It's a WAR. The tears. The butthurt. The push to get said girl to win. In the end, the one who DOES win it all - is - by virtue - the best of said tournament. Done. No question. Move on.

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Well, Saimoe cares more about tactical and revenge voting then actually voting for a worthy candidate. Not to mention they seem to have little interest in individual characters, and are merely supporting the series which said character comes from.

Yeah, but that's why it's fun to watch.

Originally Posted by Demi.

Bestmoe...has more problems with multivoting then I can count. You can't take something seriously when it not only reset at one point, but it also consistently alters results after their initial release.

So far, I'd say that the characters choice in Best Moe is quite nice. But the multivoting problem ruined it completely...

Originally Posted by Demi.

ISML is also a bloody mess. They care way too much about campaigning so now it's akin to some online poll open to everyone with 5minutes to spare. Half of the voters most likely have extreme series limitation and it skews the results to unrepairable levels. I'm pretty confident that most of the exhibition matches were determined by who had the better looking avatar. Not to mention it's basically year round, and repetitive. Oh, and let's not forget predictable.

That's basically the main reason why it's a pain. Seeing something so fail in a whole full year is unbearable.

[Ithekro]

Than suggest a solution.

[Kyuu]

ISML is superior to the other two in terms of voting numbers though.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

Unlike ISML, others are still tolerable.

Please do me a favor and tell me what formats and systems will be most close to the ideal Saimoe to you. Some details like how to select who is eligible, how the voting/polling would be done, and actual tournament structure would be very helpful for me. It would also help me greatly if you can tell us how we can deal with issue of multi-voting and lack of anime knowledge among voters. Since you said something is better than the other, there must be some kind of dream structure in your mind and ways to reach it.

[zato_1one]

Simple put, league system is fail for this type of contest. I prefer a tournament format with random draw. And all characters should only come from anime aired in that year. Well, if you really want to do the league tournament anyway. Please make it shorter than this. UEFA Champions League is an example. Separate the contestants into group of mini-league. Take the first two characters of each group to qualify to final round. No use giving silly rewards like amethyst, emerald, silver, bronze, platinum or whatever it is. People only care about the winner of tournament, seriously. I doubt that they will remember who is the 16th or even the 3rd. But if you really insist to give such rewards for whatever reason then just give them to the characters who win each group. Again, if you really want to use seeding system. It's better to use it only when creating the group. Final round should only uses random draw. What's the point arranging the 1st to meet the 16th?

But that's just my preference. No use asking me. It's better to ask for suggestion from those who care about it.

[Zeroryoko1974]

I think ISML would be better with half the candidates and capped region voting. Saimoe could do with a limitation of the number of characters from each series. Perhaps mini tournaments among those shows to represent in the final tournament, and also less overall entries. KBM seems to have a good system if they could fix the multi voting and attract a few more voters.

[broken270]

Saimoe can be easily simplified to tactical voting, revenge voting, and series voting. There seems to be little care in terms of individual character voting more so than getting a certain series represented in the top 8. Not saying that everyone does that, but a good majority of them do who are/are not here. Another flaw is random seeds. They throw in great matches and close matches in the first few rounds; however, as Saimoe progresses, the lack of interesting matches, as possibly interest in general, dwindles as matches seem more and explicit. To make Saimoe somewhat an ideal tournament, it should have some form of a seeding system arranged for their contestants. Starting with a bang is important, but ending it with greater excitement is more so important.

Bestmoe...I truly do not know exactly what happened to it. It seemed to be doing very well up until 2008. By 2009, vote count was sliced more than 70% and has gotten worse to the point that this year had to be the worst for a majority of both site masters and voters. There seems to be some form of seeding, if any. Definitely multi-votes would be one of the other killers as well. To make Bestmoe ideal, find out what made it so great in the past and apply it here even with the "change" that happened within the gap of 2008-2009. Also, check for miltivotes before showing the results. I believe this is the major flaw and the biggest mess this year. Either search for it as the match progresses like Saimoe or show the results after spending within a day's time viewing it and posting it out officially like ISML.

ISML went quantity over quality. The ideal AnimeSuki tournament went beyond that to favor everyone who is willing to spend under five minutes of their time seeing this, placing a vote, and leave. The main problem with ISML is the voters themselves. I agree with there is a decent chuck of voters out there who have only watched a limited amount of anime watch and will vote based on series that they know and/or picture voting as the case may be. Then again, you cannot just make a poll asking people how many series you have watched and banned those who do not meet a set requirement. That would act something similar to what Saimoe has done so far. Predictably is figured out sometime after Topaz when people start to figure most to all of the contestants relative strength from a short sample. Length seems to be another issue; it may be too long for it's own good. I can tlak about new characters for another paragraph. To make ISML somewhat ideal, the only thing I can think of is shrinking length of the game and doing something about those voters who are the type and only know about specific series. Next year seems to be doing so in which they both shrunk the time of the game while increasing character eligibility, specifically the newer shows.

About ISML and the addition of new characters, league is so that it incorporates everyone from all years. You get some new people here and there, but if they cannot match up with the veterans, it is simply a too bad for them. When it is their time to shine, and the voters believe as such, they will do so and it will show. Again, this goes back to a majority of voters knowing/watching a limited amount of anime. You can blame the voters for not allowing certain characters to get into the Regular season game in the first place if you want to talk about getting new people there. The new plan for ISML is trying out the edition of having one side to veterans and another side newcomers. Talking about their strength can come after seeing them in action at ISML.

In terms of which system is the best, I would say that KBM has the best system if they get some voters from the past back here and perform multivite check before showing results. ISML second if it were shorter, and AST last if it can do something about series factions.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Zeroryoko1974

I think ISML would be better with half the candidates and capped region voting. Saimoe could do with a limitation of the number of characters from each series. Perhaps mini tournaments among those shows to represent in the final tournament, and also less overall entries. KBM seems to have a good system if they could fix the multi voting and attract a few more voters.

Capping voters is bad. Badddddddd.

In all seriousness it's not the fault of the region that they are bigger and thus have more voters.

Originally Posted by zato_1one

Simple put, league system is fail for this type of contest. I prefer a tournament format with random draw. And all characters should only come from anime aired in that year. Well, if you really want to do the league tournament anyway. Please make it shorter than this. UEFA Champions League is an example. Separate the contestants into group of mini-league. Take the first two characters of each group to qualify to final round. No use giving silly rewards like amethyst, emerald, silver, bronze, platinum or whatever it is. People only care about the winner of tournament, seriously. I doubt that they will remember who is the 16th or even the 3rd. But if you really insist to give such rewards for whatever reason then just give them to the characters who win each group. Again, if you really want to use seeding system. It's better to use it only when creating the group. Final round should only uses random draw. What's the point arranging the 1st to meet the 16th?

But that's just my preference. No use asking me. It's better to ask for suggestion from those who care about it.

If you don't care about ISML then please don't complain about it. As you said yourself your opinion is void since there is no point in asking you

Your ideas sound like you simply change ISML into JSaimoe. The tournament was never made with the intention of making it a copy or similar to KBM or JSaimoe but instead going with the league system which was the method that was suited best to the kind of tournament that the founders of ISML wanted to create. I am aware that this might not be the preference of everyone but nobody actually forces you to participate in all 3 popularity contests.

Feel free to suggest viable and thought-out improvements to ISML but don't label it as fail simply because it's structured in a way that you don't like.

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by Demi.

ISML is also a bloody mess. They care way too much about campaigning so now it's akin to some online poll open to everyone with 5minutes to spare. Half of the voters most likely have extreme series limitation and it skews the results to unrepairable levels. I'm pretty confident that most of the exhibition matches were determined by who had the better looking avatar. Not to mention it's basically year round, and repetitive. Oh, and let's not forget predictable.

I contend that is only because you are pretty much the best we have at predicting match results that you can say that.

[CrowKenobi]

As fascinating as the recent discussion has been, ideas to improve ISML is off-topic here and would be better discussed in the ISML thread.

Since KBM is done for the year, I'm going to close this thread.

Any last words on the current discussion?

[zato_1one]

He asked what I like so I just said what I like. Nothing complicate...

I used to participate in ISML in the past. And that's why I feel that it doesn't work.

As I said, the main problem of ISML is that it's freaking too long. If this problem is solved then it will surly be better (to an extent).

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Any last words on the current discussion?

None.

As for KBM. It's biggest weakness... this random draw every freakin' round. You can't tell if the new arrangements are rigged or not. Yea, they mean to eliminate "tactical" voting. What are the re-seeding algorithms anyways?

[zato_1one]

By the way, do you think CAPTCHA can help decreasing multi-voting?

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

By the way, do you think CAPTCHA can help decreasing multi-voting?

LOL, no.

The forum username requirement. That certainly had an effect on multi-voting. But that doesn't stop people from signing multiple usernames. But at least, the policy reduces the number.