English Grammar in Anime

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Shinji01

And one last point.
If you are really fluent in languages and also smart, you would probably choose an occupation other than being a translator because working in foreign firms means huge pay checks.
The translators tend to be those people who find speaking English is cool, and want to make a living out of it, so, they are not the top notch anyways...

Not sure how many people know this, but Yuuko Goto (Mikuru in Haruhi) actually studied to be a translator at one point. That might be why she got picked to portray a Canadian who butchers Japanese in Sketchbook:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gzqGuJY3qc

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Not sure how many people know this, but Yuuko Goto (Mikuru in Haruhi) actually studied to be a translator at one point. That might be why she got picked to portray a Canadian who butchers Japanese in Sketchbook:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gzqGuJY3qc

Kate is awesome.

[totoum]

Symphogear just entered the engrish hall of fame

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by totoum

Symphogear just entered the engrish hall of fame

That's english?

[Triple_R]

Honestly, I've never understood why bits of Engrish bothers so many anime fans so much.

I mean, what do people expect?

I know some francophone Canadian politicians (up to and including at least one actual Prime Minister) that speak "Engrish" not much better than most Engrish I've heard in anime (in fairness, I'm sure many of our anglophone politicians sound off to french-speaking listeners when that politician speaks french).

Look, this is typically the inevitable cost of bilingualism/multilingualism. A person's second language and beyond is probably not going to sound quite as good as that same language spoke by a native speaker. And in the case of seiyu who have to voice English lines, most/all of them probably aren't bilingual anyway, and hence are going to struggle with English like many of us would struggle with Japanese.

"Why do they have to bother with English lines at all then?" some may ask.

Because many Japanese people clearly find the English language endearingly exotic and captivating, much like how many native English speakers find the French language. Native English speakers should be flattered by that, if anything.

If you have a character that typically speaks Japanese, but spices up his/her dialogue with bits of English here and there, I really don't see a way around a bit of Engrish, and it's not that big of a deal. Actually, in some cases, I honestly find it amusing or interesting (hearing your native language spoken with the speech patterns and/or dialect of people used to a different language can be interesting).


Now, all of this being said, there is one thing I don't quite get. If you have a very minor character that only speaks English, I'm not sure why Japanese anime studios don't just call up an English dub company that they're used to working with and get one of its voice actors to voice some English lines for them. Thankfully, I think Mawaru Penguin Drum actually did do this (i.e. get a native English speaker to fill a minor English-speaking role), which made the episode with it come off a lot better. But C: The Money and Soul of Possibility Control didn't do this, which is why its English-only IMF/America scenes weren't as effective as they could have been.

[DonQuigleone]

If it's a Japanese character mangling english it's okay, but when you have a supposedly "american" character mangling english it just breaks immersion.

And again, these are professional productions, and there's plenty of English speakers in Japan they could get who could read out lines.

And like you said, they could always phone their associates at Funimation if they wanted to.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by totoum

Symphogear just entered the engrish hall of fame

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... omg that was funny . I haven't seen engrish that good since Prince of Tennis.

[Kimidori]

no one mentioned Eden of The East yet?, the english they did in episode 1 is perfect

[fanty]

Funny thing for me, is in that having any English in anime, regardless of whether it's correct or incorrect, instantly breaks my suspension of disbelief. I don't even know why that is, both English and Japanese are foreign languages to me.

[Sun-Ku]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

No, Sora No Woto is an exception. That girls german is easily understandable and they got the grammar right too. What shes saying even makes sense in context!

I find it funny though, that this is done for quite a bit of dialogue that the viewer is not supposed to (or at least required to) understand (in the version I got, even the fansuber left it blank).

This brings me to the question:

When japanese use english in anime, are viewers expected to actually understand it?

Or is it just supposed to be "Oh they are speaking foreignish now, we don't need to know what it is about"?
You know, like the chinese lines thrown in for swear words in Firefly. I don't think they expect most of their viewers to understand that (I did not and I don't think I missed an important aspect of the story because of it ).
Another example would be Kevin Costner speaking "Indian" all the time in Dances with Wolves. Who actually understands that?
They put subtitles in when you are supposed to follow the dialogue and other times you just hear gibberish and you know it's not important, because there are no subtitles. For all we know, they could be making up that language and if it is even correct grammar we can't know, but we don't care either.

Yeah sora no Woto had Superior spoken German, better than all previous attempts at german in Anime. (and after that)
Sure, if you only randomly throw in individual words they are fine, even if they are "a little" strangely pronounced (in most cases, German or nordic Words are used for weapons or technology)


BUT!
The US is not entirely innocent in this matter. Anyone seen the TV series Grimm? There are a bunch of german Words floating around. And let me tell you, the spoken german is a) horrible and b) mostly not even an german Word. prime example: "Blutbaden" I think they wanted to get a german word for "bloodbath" (translation: Blutbad) and made it an Word for a race (wolf like creatures)
So 1 Wolf is a "Blutbad" I can live with that (just)
And more than 1 are "Blutbaden" here is the thing were it gets weird: This is not the plural of Blutbad, that would be "Blutbäder" (or "Blutbaeder" without umlauts) in a sentence were the actual word is not describing a scene, but a Race
Blutbaden would be the context of a sentence like "in Blut baden" wich translates to "bathing in blood"
So if we get from Blutbad to Blutbaden: in english it would go from a bloodbath to bathing in blood ---> thats no Plural


soooooo .... Yeah dont judge the japanese/asiens too much ^^

[Same_Shark]

The singer MELL once said at a convention that the Japanese don't actually teach English properly in their schools. Apparently they teach them how to read English, instead of speaking it properly.

As for the German in Soranowoto, that girl was voiced by Nami Miyahara. Nami Miyahara actually lived and attended an international school, in Austria, where she learned both German and English. She's more known for her English speaking characters, such as: Wallace in the Digimon Adventure 02 movie & Momoko Asuka in Ojamajo Doremi.

[NeoChan]

I remember in the anime Amagami SS where the "director" whom the lead met at the comfort room of the cinema speaks fluent English... It gave a different mood in the scene...

[RegalStar]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Spoiler for original post, because it is long:

Honestly, I've never understood why bits of Engrish bothers so many anime fans so much.

I mean, what do people expect?

I know some francophone Canadian politicians (up to and including at least one actual Prime Minister) that speak "Engrish" not much better than most Engrish I've heard in anime (in fairness, I'm sure many of our anglophone politicians sound off to french-speaking listeners when that politician speaks french).

Look, this is typically the inevitable cost of bilingualism/multilingualism. A person's second language and beyond is probably not going to sound quite as good as that same language spoke by a native speaker. And in the case of seiyu who have to voice English lines, most/all of them probably aren't bilingual anyway, and hence are going to struggle with English like many of us would struggle with Japanese.

"Why do they have to bother with English lines at all then?" some may ask.

Because many Japanese people clearly find the English language endearingly exotic and captivating, much like how many native English speakers find the French language. Native English speakers should be flattered by that, if anything.

If you have a character that typically speaks Japanese, but spices up his/her dialogue with bits of English here and there, I really don't see a way around a bit of Engrish, and it's not that big of a deal. Actually, in some cases, I honestly find it amusing or interesting (hearing your native language spoken with the speech patterns and/or dialect of people used to a different language can be interesting).

Indeed. I would often point and laugh at shows with Engrish because it's hella amusing, but it doesn't really deduct any points from the show for me. If anything, it may very well end up making the show (or a character) funnier and thus better for me.

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Not sure how many people know this, but Yuuko Goto (Mikuru in Haruhi) actually studied to be a translator at one point. That might be why she got picked to portray a Canadian who butchers Japanese in Sketchbook:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gzqGuJY3qc

I'm so going to watch this show later.

[Dhomochevsky]

Originally Posted by Same_Shark

The singer MELL once said at a convention that the Japanese don't actually teach English properly in their schools. Apparently they teach them how to read English, instead of speaking it properly.

As for the German in Soranowoto, that girl was voiced by Nami Miyahara. Nami Miyahara actually lived and attended an international school, in Austria, where she learned both German and English. She's more known for her English speaking characters, such as: Wallace in the Digimon Adventure 02 movie & Momoko Asuka in Ojamajo Doremi.

For Sora No Woto, it's not only the execution, that is good, but also the script.
It uses just the right pacing and structure and also includes words that are not the obvious choice, but feel more suitable than what you would come up in a direct translation. Words like "Scherereien" instead of "Probleme" for example...
It's what a natural speaker (someone with a talent for writing ) would come up with.

I'm not sure if this can also be credited to Miss Miyahara.
Do the voice actors have any freedom of interpretation, or a way to influence the dialoge in production?
Lip synching is done before or after the voice over?

[Forsaken_Infinity]

Originally Posted by totoum

Symphogear just entered the engrish hall of fame

Rofl. Bloody damn.

Hey, I know enough Japanese people that speak Legible English that I don't think the excuse of second language etc. is valid for that much Engrish in a professional production.

However, I understand that very few non-native students actually put in the right effort to learn the language correctly and thus suck at it. Actually, most native students don't excel at studying the language either but they learn to speak it fluently by the virtue of everyday use. And I understand that VAs who are made to speak English when they aren't even bilingual are bound to make these errors. But let those VAs be used for characters that only use some minor English catchphrase and not a character that's supposed to speak Fluent English please. I can totally swallow a Japanese character having an Engrish catchphrase (and in fact, I find that totally cute and/or awesome) but when shit makes no sense over an extended period, it just gets annoying.

Regardless, Engrish is a reality even outside anime and Japan so what gives. It's not really fair to expect people to learn perfect English if they have no reason to do so anyway. Not like most Americans know a second language, or are that great at English itself for that matter. And voiceacting has to be more difficult than just speaking too. So yeah, what gives. I am fine with occasional Engrish in anime but only so long as it is used either for a comedic purpose, or in catchphrases and such or couldn't have been avoided (like a phone call by a Japanese to a foreigner or something).

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

Do the voice actors have any freedom of interpretation, or a way to influence the dialoge in production?
Lip synching is done before or after the voice over?

Well I can only give general answers,not sure how it was done for SnW

Generally the seiyuus dub ove a rough version of the animation so there's some constraints but they have some freedom.
For exemple in Ben-To there's quite a few of Oshiroi "the muscle cop" Hana's lines that are adlibs from Yuuki Aoi,not to mention all the weird sounds she makes.
Only exception I can think of is Kure-Nai where all dub work was done before animation production started so the animators based their animation on the performance of the VAs

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Haha, SO true. I studied German when I was in highschool and college, and I cringed when I heard that line from Asuka. OMG!

Also, I'm not sure whether the German chants said by Rin Tohsaka in Fate/Stay Night anime is correct/make sense or not. I kinda forgot about it.

A lot of Rin's spells are in really strange German, for example "Neun, Acht, Sieben, Stil Schießen, Beschießen, Erschießen!"* "Nine, Eight, Seven, Style Shooting, Shelling, Shooting!".

So, not really.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by bhl88

A lot of Rin's spells are in really strange German, for example "Neun, Acht, Sieben, Stil Schießen, Beschießen, Erschießen!"* "Nine, Eight, Seven, Style Shooting, Shelling, Shooting!".

So, not really.

Oh, a reply for my old post. That's kinda surprising.

Thanx for the analysis & confirmation. It's been a while since the last time I watched F/SN . Still, when I think about it further, some magic chants are supposed to be stylized words/sentences/utterances which sometimes don't makes sense aren't they?

[MisaoFan]

I generally found the Engrish grammar in Japanese-audio anime to be terrible. The engrish-speaking parts are better handled in English dubs of these anime. I remember watching the fifth episode of Symphogear when the Engrish parts are somewhat terrible, while Guilty Crown handles better the Engrish parts than the other series.
I also remember reading that the German-speaking parts of Asuka in the German dub of Evangelion are better handled than the Japanese version of the said scenes.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Oh, a reply for my old post. That's kinda surprising.

Thanx for the analysis & confirmation. It's been a while since the last time I watched F/SN . Still, when I think about it further, some magic chants are supposed to be stylized words/sentences/utterances which sometimes don't makes sense aren't they?

Tv Tropes xD