2011-11-17, 01:55 | Link #25663 |
The True Culprit
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The 9th Twilight is when Beatrice "revives". The Tenth Twilight is when the Golden Land is reached. As evidence, EP1 tips is as far as I need to go. Natsuhi dies on the 9th Twilight, and the cousins go missing on the 10th Twilight. Battler also goes missing on the 10th Twilight in EP4, etcetera.
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2011-11-17, 02:39 | Link #25664 | |
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Location: Gone Fishin!
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2011-11-17, 04:35 | Link #25665 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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In any case I think Touya lied to Yukari about his memories of the Rokkenjima incident being hazy; he's hiding something from her. |
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2011-11-17, 11:01 | Link #25666 | |
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2011-11-17, 12:47 | Link #25667 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Yasu had a horrible life, she received emotional (and phyisical) permanent scars, she doesn't know what to do, she is in despair, etc etc... okay, I understood that and I can also understand why one could become depressed because of that. And a person who is depressed can become suicidal and might also decide to bring someone else to the other life. That's not impossible (albeit planning a mass murder because of that is very improbable). The problem here is that this motivation is only driven by a profound egocentrism. Yasu had a horrible life, okay, but is that a good reason to kill people that are barely responsible for that if not completely unrelated? Even when those people are the people she is supposed to love? We have only two possibilities here: The first is that Yasu doesn't care about what the persons she love actually want (and they certainly don't want to die), or at any rate she cares more about herself than about them. This is however the very antithesis of love. If you love someone you'd care about them more than you care about yourself. If this is true then Yasu failed at love. Maybe she loved them at the beginning but then her despair destroyed whatever love existed before. Else she wouldn't do this. The second possibility is that she genuinely believes killing everyone is the best solution for them. This however assumes that she is batshit crazy. Yes love makes crazy, but there is a limit to the madness love can justify, and mass murder is way beyond that threshold. Delusional belief in a magical afterlife too in a slightly minor degree. I may say that this second possibility isn't very likely, because if that was true Yasu would be determined to actualize this "wonderful" scenario. But the discussion between Will and Claire suggests that she knew she was doing something wrong. There are also hints that one part of herself wanted her plan to fail. She said that she entrusted everything to fate, meaning that she couldn't make up her mind on her own. So I think the first possibility is the right one, but that shows a total lack of consideration for Battler, Jessica, George and Maria. Yeah Gohda too of course! But I can stomach a lot less her lack of consideration for people she is supposed to love rather than for people she is indifferent with. Where is her love? Where did it go? Spoiler for Higurashi:
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2011-11-17 at 13:12. |
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2011-11-17, 13:15 | Link #25668 |
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Well, RK07 stated that he made Will voiced a lot of his opinions on the matter and the final answer was basically "Regardless of what the witch really wanted, the bomb explodes and seals everything up" It kinda made me feel like she wanted to be stopped but time ran out anyways.
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2011-11-17, 14:18 | Link #25670 | |
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I think the idea we were supposed to get is that Yasu assumed that Yasu and the others loved her as much as she loved them, and would rather die than to break their love. Remember, this is a girl who took reading murder mysteries together as a vow to spend their lives together forever after. If we assume that mindset, then we can kind of see how her logic went. 1)"I love them, they love me." 2)"Love is more important than life." 3)"Therefore they won't have a problem with dying so long as our love gets to live on." 4)"Who cares about Gohda?" I have a problem with the solution for two reasons. One is that while I can see how the author would think that Yasu is a tragic figure, I don't. I blame her for everything that happened in the novel and I think she's an idiot. Two, even though I can twist everything to make Yasu's actions seemingly benefit the ones she loves, and even the servants(Kumasawa/Genji have magical counterparts and would love to be freed in the golden land or whatever)...I literally can't find a single reason for killing Gohda. Yasu's biggest sin is killing Gohda. UNFORGIVABLE. But in general, I just didn't feel sorry for her. If she isn't the culprit and I'm wrong then sure, she could be a tragic figure. But if my logic is correct and she really did kill people for the reasons I described...then yeah she's a selfish person and I really gotta question the novel's themes. |
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2011-11-17, 15:04 | Link #25672 | ||
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For me he was killed because he was some kinda of a witness. Probably he witness one of the killings that took place. |
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2011-11-17, 15:18 | Link #25673 | ||
The True Culprit
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2011-11-17, 15:38 | Link #25674 | ||
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anyways, I don get the part where Beatrice was put to sleep. Did someone Killed her just like what Ep7 was trying to tell us? Quote:
Also in ep4 it seems like gohda was a witness in first twilight murder. that's why he was killed in the garden shed. |
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2011-11-17, 15:50 | Link #25676 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Yes they are fictions, but that's not an excuse for lack of consistence and a satisfactory explanation, especially when they take 90% of the whole story and when that's practically all you read in EP1 and almost all you read in EP2 and EP3. The games are the only confirmed mysteries in this story, the real world might as well not being a mystery at all! These mysteries have a confirmed culprit: Yasu. So the whodunit is covered, the howdunit will be hopefully fully covered on the next fuyucomi, what we miss is a decent whydunit. And after EP7 Ryuukishi kinda raised everyone's expectations about that.
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2011-11-17, 16:05 | Link #25677 | |||||
The True Culprit
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@Rogerpepitone: Okay, damn, I concede that. I blame the inability to call up the Ending Scroll on demand without going through hours of text. >_> On the other hand I will note that Maria goes to the Golden Land when she dies anyway, as shown in the Meta-narrative, so Maria might be a special case there regardless of how things are meant to be; Maria reached the Golden Land, ergo the Tenth Twilight. Similar to how Kanon pretty much takes up every Twilight but the first in EP6. Quote:
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2011-11-17, 16:26 | Link #25678 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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You're not reading the story hard enough mate. The golden land is umineko's version of afterlife (from a certain point of view). It's a metaphor that's emphasized over and over again by Maria and by piece Battler in his wordy mental dialogue.
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2011-11-17, 16:29 | Link #25679 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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The issue is that there is basically no moral justification for Yasu murdering Gohda. I mean if all we want is a reason for a non-sympathetic murder to kill Gohda, then the answer can be "fuck it who cares he's Gohda." |
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2011-11-17, 16:38 | Link #25680 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.
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