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Old Today, 13:15   Link #201
Part-time misanthrope
Join Date: Mar 2007
Originally Posted by DemonOfWrath View Post
That's the world of a 50/50 senate. Any one democrat senator can shut something down entirely. And the centrist democrats in heavily right-wing states have a lot more room to play hard ball because the choice is basically them or a republican (see Montana last year for an example for how hard it is to win/keep those few seats). The other democrats can potentially be replaced by other democrats, so have more to lose.

So, yeah, there isn't actually much choice with the current senate composition. You compromise and keep those centrist senators happy or you get nothing. Unless you can come up with something that would make them back down.
So the party will just be forever hostage of specific individuals that happen to represent key states. Let's talk a bit about what it means when people like Manchin are voting against party line. About what it means when one senator threatens to sink a bill because they value their personal interests higher than those of the people they should serve. About what it means to grovel before someone who cosplays as republican whenever it's convenient for them. About what it means when having to negotiate with someone whose stance is appease me or I'll have millions of citizens suffer instead.

You are right in one point that to pass any bill in the current state of affairs the democrats have no choice than to appease these individuals. That doesn't mean that their behavior is not absolutely disgraceful as well. A party doesn't or at least shouldn't consist of a mass of individuals but ultimately they should speak as a group.
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Old Today, 16:27   Link #202
Key Board
Join Date: Nov 2003
Ideally you want to primary people like Manchin

But when the challenger is a progressive, they start to parrot Fox News .

To be brutally honest it seems we’ll just have to wait for the older generation to die off.
The future political landscape will be inherited by the progressive youth and the fascist youth
The “culture wars” will go on. Qanon will go on.
. There will be much less room for centrists. Especially since bipartisanship is dead

"Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

Last edited by Key Board; Today at 16:55.
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Old Today, 17:41   Link #203
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
It makes absolutely no sense to primary Manchin. He’s literally the only Democrat who would have any chance of winning in WV. If you primaried him two things could happen - either he wins and is weakened in the general, or he loses and the Rs win the general by 30+ points. Don’t like Manchin? Great, I don’t either. How about the alternative? That’s a R Senator and Mitch McConnell being the majority leader and Biden’s stimulus not even coming up for a vote.

I could see primarying Sinema. She’s especially obnoxious and Arizona is at least a swing state, and a moderately more progressive D might have a chance there.
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