[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Marion]

But Battler is playing for the witch side in EP 6. He can't have his piece be the detective, his piece is going to be the one killing people in the fantasy scenes.

I think Erika will be returning, since she is his primary opponent now.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by the_rogue

I would agree with this. Hence the hesitancy to compare anybody to that character. But a detective shift won't necessarily steal the spotlight from Battler, especially with the current way the story is being told. Heck, I'd say that's near impossible at this point. Rather it'd be a different insight that would help Battler present/support his "solution".

And yeah, Beato was still a main character and arguably the central focus - she just had a lot less "power".

I mean the main character overall, not just the detective.
In Higurashi, there was only one story. The things that happened in Hinamizawa, things were told from different perspectives in different worlds, some views were altered. But it was still the story of Hinamizawa.

In Umineko, there's the story of what happens on Rokkenjima and the Meta World.
(Also 1998... but something tells me that Ange is always going to be the main character of that time.)
I'm saying that one character could technically hijack one of the stories (Shannon could become the main character on the board, but Meta Battler would still have a huge role... his character wouldn't really have to give up any attention). I know that the stories tie together and are really one, but so far one is ongoing while the other is repeating over and over. There are things that separate them which means that while the focus can be on one character on the board, it can still go back to Battler and Beatrice in the game.

Same goes for flashbacks and hints. Battler and Beatrice have a lot of connections in the story. But unlike Rika, neither of them were really treated as "side characters" from the start (EP1 is arguable, but as soon as Beato appeared she stole the spotlight).

This is why I don't even think there can be a comparison between Umineko and Higurashi. In Higurashi there was no "detective" or "Meta World"... so... what does it mean when you say "going to be the next Rika"? Because I get the impression that you mean a character that'll steal a large amount of the spotlight out of seemingly nowhere and tell their side of the story that'll fill in a lot of the blanks. Emphasis on the "stealing a large amount of spotlight". owo;

I know it's semantics and that I should probably explain myself better... I'm just saying that I can't really see Battler (Meta and/or Piece) giving up much spotlight in favor of a more unknown or quiet character completely. It seems to me like he'll never give up his role of the main character like the Higurashi characters did, detective, game master, next head, or not.

[ameskitty]

...I'd still say I completely agree with you. I don't think Battler lost a single bit of his main character status when Erika, a character who didn't even exist before, became the detective.

I also agree that we shouldn't be calling anybody Rika - the comparison to Kanon was simply personality-based, at least to me. (well at least to the emo side of her personality). I think by the "next Rika" here people mean somebody who has "the key" to the solution, or perhaps Beatrice. Not somebody who's stealing Battler's spotlight.

Well, if Erika returns as the detective, I have a feeling that her "powers" to do ridiculous investigations will be much much diminished, hopefully by Battler himself :/. Because otherwise I'll be kind of annoyed.

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by Marion

But Battler is playing for the witch side in EP 6. He can't have his piece be the detective, his piece is going to be the one killing people in the fantasy scenes.

I don't really see this happening, even if Battler is the Game Master and has the role of setting up the games and dictating what happens on the island. I mean, everything outside of October 4th and 5th is the same for all games, period. Well, I'm pretty sure Rokkenjima doesn't have a legend about the golden sorcerer Battler, or anything like that ^^; I just can't envision Piece!Battler suddenly going all magical in the fantasy scenes and being responsible (ala Eva-B). It's still going to be Beatrice who is at the heart of the fantasy scenes, because she is the focus of the legend and the sender of the letter and all that crazy stuff. I don't see Battler's role on the board changing to be that of the killer - fantasy or otherwise - just because his role in the Meta-World has changed. I don't consider 'has to be the one doing the killings on the board in fantasy scenes' to be part of the job description for Game Master...but that's just me.

[Marion]

"Detective" in accordance with the game is the person who has the reliable POV. In EP 1-4 Battler was the detective (proven with red text from Dlanor) and in EP 5 Erika is declared the detective. But anyways Battler shouldn't be the detective in EP 6 - it should either be Erika or another family member. Ryukishi already confirmed in an interview that Battler would be playing the witch side and, similar to Beato, will be orchestrating the fantasy scenes (ie: killing his family members with magic). Yet considering that every family member is suspicious in some way it'll probably be Erika as the detective, since she's already confirmed not to exist on the gameboard before EP 5 and confirmed innocent by red.


As far as the 'overall main character' I can say either Battler or Beatrice. Maybe even both. Higurashi had a much smaller cast and focused more on the club members rather than anyone else, even though they were there. Umineko has a more broader focus in that every member of the cast has had some amount of development up to this point (albeit some more than others)

Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture

I don't really see this happening, even if Battler is the Game Master and has the role of setting up the games and dictating what happens on the island. I mean, everything outside of October 4th and 5th is the same for all games, period. Well, I'm pretty sure Rokkenjima doesn't have a legend about the golden sorcerer Battler, or anything like that ^^; I just can't envision Piece!Battler suddenly going all magical in the fantasy scenes and being responsible (ala Eva-B). It's still going to be Beatrice who is at the heart of the fantasy scenes, because she is the focus of the legend and the sender of the letter and all that crazy stuff. I don't see Battler's role on the board changing to be that of the killer - fantasy or otherwise - just because his role in the Meta-World has changed. I don't consider 'has to be the one doing the killings on the board in fantasy scenes' to be part of the job description for Game Master...but that's just me.

Well nothing said Battler is going to act like Eva-Beatrice or Beato. It'll be very hard for him of course but he has to make fantasy scenes of some kind - only reason they didn't show up in EP 5 was because Erika was all over the place, unlike Battler who stood mostly in the sidelines in EP 1-4. That and the game gets cut halfway through because of Natsuhi's trial. Why do you think Beato had to pretend to kill everyone using magic? Because she had to fool Battler, her opponent, and mislead him in some fashion. Battler will have to do the same for Erika.

Either he does it himself or he gets a magical entity of some sort to do it for him (similar to how Kinzo 'killed' everyone in EP 4, even though he was already dead before the start of the game. His existence was a creation of Beato's at best).

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture

I don't consider 'has to be the one doing the killings on the board in fantasy scenes' to be part of the job description for Game Master...but that's just me.

I completely disagree with this statement. Here's a quote from Ryukishi's interview:

Originally Posted by Ryukishi

As the leader of the witch side, Battler will be forced to continue the serial murders. So he must carry out 13 murders using the game pieces. If he can create a crime that follows the rules of Beatrice's game board and is seen by Lambdadelta and Bernkastel, they'll be able to confirm that he understands this world, and the game will be over.

Battler will execute the murders as that is part of the job description of the game master.

Regarding his piece on the board, it will probably be the same as the other games. Piece Battler won't be involved with any of the murders.

[Pikatira]

I can't help but wonder about something. If Battler has taken Beatice place as gameboard master, than is it possible that Beato will take Battler's place as a game piece. Just a thought.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

Yeah, we already have a Erika and Frederika I don't feel like another "Rika" j/k
But well I dunno...someone who remembers the games? I have a feeling there will be moer than one. It has been hinted already that at least in "magic-verse" the golden-eagle servants can remember...I think it's either them or noone. Tending betweem both choices.

Actually "Frederica" is Erika herself, in certain way.

The original file text of Ep5 occasionally includes romaji names of the characters as notes. And the one referring to Erika says "Erica Fred"

This is necessarily a correct romanization since we had some bad examples already in the past like "Battler" being shortened into "but", but this kinda means that "Furudo" is meant to be the "Fred" part of the whole name "Frederica", even though it should be read as "Frud" not "Fred".


it is crazy how close I was with my hunches back when Ep5 was soon to be released

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...21#post2494121

But I didn't really believe it myself, I should trust my instinct more...

[Marion]

Actually there is a theory that Erika is actually a bad end Rika (hence Frederica in a way) that Bern pulled into the game. This can explain why Bern is so abusive towards Erika (since she supposedly hates Rika in a way for leaving her) and why Erika looks like a slightly older Rika.

[momobunny]

There's one thing that bothers me about that though... Erika's eyes are blue, Rika's aren't.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

There's one thing that bothers me about that though... Erika's eyes are blue, Rika's aren't.

Well are magical characters of some sort seem to have a certain eye color difference (although it varies as noted before)

[~Ayane~]

Originally Posted by Marion

Well are magical characters of some sort seem to have a certain eye color difference (although it varies as noted before)

hmmm, i thought that the only special ones regarding eye colours are demons which have usually red, other than that, all witches have rather normal colors, and besides in this case its Rikas eyes that are weirder (light purple)

[momobunny]

The thing that makes it strange is that Bernkastel is a witch and still has the proper eye color... if Erika was Rika, then it'd make sense for her to have Rika's eye color, witch or not. The fact that Erika appears on the gameboard before humans makes it even stranger that her eyes would be a different color.

Also, I can't really see a reason for such a huge shift in Rika's personality. Nor do I want to.

[~Ayane~]

The thing that makes it strange is that Bernkastel is a witch and still has the proper eye color...

proper? you mean the same as Rika has ?

Also, I can't really see a reason for such a huge shift in Rika's personality. Nor do I want to.

even if she was Rika, she wouldnt know about it i guess

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by ~Ayane~

proper? you mean the same as Rika has ?

Yeah... I don't know what else it would mean.
Bernkastel having Rika's eye color doesn't seem to be a necessity, same with Lambda having Takano's eye color (in the game at least, I know they're pretty red in the anime). I don't understand why he'd give Bernkastel Rika's eye color if it was Erika who was actually closer connected to her.

Not to say that Erika definitely isn't Rika or anything... but I'd just find that to be strange. Her name, unknown background, and other design features do hint at a Rika connection.

[~Ayane~]

how is this not necessity if Bern was...well.......she was Rika at first too...
i dont know about Erika tho...
but eye colors arent really important matter in Umineko i guess (Battler in anime and in VN for example)

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

Also, I can't really see a reason for such a huge shift in Rika's personality. Nor do I want to.

Ryukishi mentioned in an interview that Erika isn't a bad person - she just uses a bad choice of words.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by Marion

Ryukishi mentioned in an interview that Erika isn't a bad person - she just uses a bad choice of words.

Yeah I know. I don't doubt that Erika isn't a bad person. (I can see her turning around in a later episode... hopefully EP6.)

But Rika's never been described as being bad with words, just about all of Erika's traits are different from Rika. If she is Rika, then possible amnesia, being washed up on shore, and puberty have been very cruel to her.

It does make sense though... in Higurashi Bernkastel was different from Rika, but they had the same form. It'd be similar here, Rika would be listening to her inner Bernkastel... but she still isn't her. Hmmm... that would be strange, I don't know how to explain it very well. D:

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Marion

Ryukishi mentioned in an interview that Erika isn't a bad person - she just uses a bad choice of words.

Source? If this is true, then we really are going to get a Rika-hijack AGAIN.

[~Ayane~]

it was posted somewhere here ^^'