Man of Steel 2 - Upcoming Superman & Batman film (2015)

[Anh_Minh]

One is an invincible superhero. The other is... also an invincible superhero. Together, they fight crime?

[playmaker2k]

I think they'll be on opposing sides until something happens and be forced to take on the real threat together.

It's gonna be glorious!

One thing I do know is Batman's fight scenes will be so much better than they were in the TDK trilogy.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

One is an invincible superhero. The other is... also an invincible superhero. Together, they fight crime?

My reason for telling the story from Superman's POV, is because Batman just looks better from the outside. Batman is like a Magician; it is cooler if you don't know how the tricks were done. To have Batman being on par with Superman by just being more efficient at everything, when Superman brute force his obstacles, makes it easier to differentiate them.

This reminds me of the film Tango & Cash. Anyone who watched it would understand that's the angle I am after.

[Ithekro]

The World's Finest I think starts off like that. Though it expects the audiance to know who Batman and Superman are.

Give a typical human villian enough Kryptonite to be able to ward off Superman, and have them be clever enough to require the skills of the Batman to locate them and/or figure out what they are planning (since Superman can't just go in and deal with it). But also make it so that the villian either has superior technology or a superhuman/alien avalible so that Batman can't deal with it alone. Or at least not alone and in time to save everybody. That's Superman's job.

Superman saves the day while Batman catches the criminal.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Though it expects the audiance to know who Batman and Superman are.

If they don't know who those two are by now, there's no way they'll know without screwing up the entire movie or making it longer than LOTR.

[playmaker2k]

Originally Posted by GDB

If they don't know who those two are then they're not human. Probably livestock.

Fixed that for you.

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by james0246

Christian Bale's Batman doesn't work (he's too old, broken and retired)

Actually it will work since Zack Snyder says he is doing an adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns comics, were Bruce comes back from retirement at 55 and meets Superman.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Actually it will work since Zack Snyder says he is doing an adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns comics, were Bruce comes back from retirement at 55 and meets Superman.

That could be interesting. Batman teaching Superman some humility and just how to be a superhero (this could also mean that a replacement Batman would step in for the Justice League movies (for the actual action portions), allowing Bruce Wayne to be an independent character that helps the League without fighting alongside them...Bruce as the new Oracle?).

Sadly, this all makes "Man 'o Steel" seem like a weak franchise that Batman has to show up just to reassure the audience...

[aohige]

Tbh, I'd rather see Hercules & Amadeus Cho duo on film than Supes and Bats together.
The latter two are so distinctly complete on their own to compliment each other like the former duo.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by aohige

Tbh, I'd rather see Hercules & Amadeus Cho duo on film than Supes and Bats together.
The latter two are so distinctly complete on their own to compliment each other like the former duo.

The clear thing is that they work so differently, it is impossible for them to take the same route to the destination. They can't share workload because they have incompatible tools and skills.

"We found where the badguy is!"
"Good, you fly there, and I will take my car."

They are like different departments of a police force. On the same team, but rarely have a reason to be on the job together.

[Roger Rambo]

Honestly? The idea of a Batman/Superman teamup doesn't excite me that much. Because I just know they're going to just randomly ramp up Batman's skills/equipment set just to avoid him getting squashed like a bug by some Kryptonian level super villain.

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I mean, how exactly can you look at this fight here, and then go on to assume that Batman is any kind of meaningful threat to Superman level villains who can do stuff like this? Batman's martial arts skills failed him against a human level fighter who just happened to be really skill and really tough. How the hell is he going to use them to defend himself against someone who can punch him at 300 miles per hour? And I know what the answer will be. "Batman will take out his Kryptonian repellent spray from his utility belt." Which I find equally inadequate. If Batman has such convenient tech like that lying around, why doesn't he bring say, Bane repellent spray when he went to fight Bane?





More likely what they'll do is even the odds by making the Kryptonians really stupid. Hell. That's what they had to do in Man of Steel. Was there any particular reason Faora had to fly INSIDE the plane and punch all the soldiers to death? Couldn't she have just flown into the aircraft's cockpit at mach 8 and just called it a day? Expect any superman level villains doing this ALLOT with Batman. Cause just punching Batman hard enough to make his body explode, or insta zapping him with a laser as strong as a 2000 pound bomb would be too crafty.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Now you are just pulling out the Power Level argument.

Batman doesn't fight battles he can't win. See, the joke might be that he plans too much, but the fact is he isn't going to go wrestle a Kryptonian. In fact Batman is never about being stronger than someone else.

Batman is a MAGICIAN. He pulls tricks using his money and try his best not to let anyone know how he does it.

Superman might charge right into villains, but Batman wouldn't do anything unless he finds a way to make a difference. The second you see Batman in costume out in the open, you know he already figured out what to do; otherwise why would he even leave his cave?

Superman can save everyone. Batman knows he can't save everyone, so he saves what he can and no more. Batman can't do Superman's job, but conversely it is also impossible for Superman to do Batman's job. As I say, they are different departments entirely.

[aohige]

Bats have the magic pouch with solutions to everything.

... this is why I don't like him in Justice League.
HEY! Batman just somehow invented this net made out of ropes to rope the entire Earth!
How? Who knows, he just did! Problem solved!

uh huh

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by aohige

Bats have the magic pouch with solutions to everything.

... this is why I don't like him in Justice League.
HEY! Batman just somehow invented this net made out of ropes to rope the entire Earth!
How? Who knows, he just did! Problem solved!

uh huh

That's just because they expected him to behave like Superman. To have the solution ready. When generally after meeting a Supervillain for the first time, Batman retreats and try to find out as much about his foe as he can, before facing them again.

Hence my preference that they make Batman the JL member who never hang around much and does his own things.

The old JL cartoons are the major source of my impression of the Justice League. And I just don't see the Adam West style Batman working in the modern day film setting.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Now you are just pulling out the Power Level argument.

Batman doesn't fight battles he can't win. See, the joke might be that he plans too much, but the fact is he isn't going to go wrestle a Kryptonian. In fact Batman is never about being stronger than someone else.

Batman is a MAGICIAN. He pulls tricks using his money and try his best not to let anyone know how he does it.

Superman might charge right into villains, but Batman wouldn't do anything unless he finds a way to make a difference. The second you see Batman in costume out in the open, you know he already figured out what to do; otherwise why would he even leave his cave?

Superman can save everyone. Batman knows he can't save everyone, so he saves what he can and no more. Batman can't do Superman's job, but conversely it is also impossible for Superman to do Batman's job. As I say, they are different departments entirely.

See, if they actually played that up it could be cool. But it'd have to be willing to recognize that Batman is NOT going to be fighting super powered beings head on. Batman's screwing up if he even lets a superman level villain enter his line of sight, since they should be able to realistically instagib him. Batman needs to do shit like foil the bad guys behind the scenes, from the shadows. Like the super villain is done fighting Superman, only to return to his layer to find his regular mooks bataranged, and his super tech device sabotaged. Or Batman using his detective skills to find the bad guys hideout.


That could be cool. But I have a sneaking worry that they'll want Batman to go toe to toe with some bad guy, and give him a can of anti-super being bat spray, just so he can go and punch the bad guy.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

See, if they actually played that up it could be cool. But it'd have to be willing to recognize that Batman is NOT going to be fighting super powered beings head on. Batman's screwing up if he even lets a superman level villain enter his line of sight, since they should be able to realistically instagib him. Batman needs to do shit like foil the bad guys behind the scenes, from the shadows. Like the super villain is done fighting Superman, only to return to his layer to find his regular mooks bataranged, and his super tech device sabotaged. Or Batman using his detective skills to find the bad guys hideout.


That could be cool. But I have a sneaking worry that they'll want Batman to go toe to toe with some bad guy, and give him a can of anti-super being bat spray, just so he can go and punch the bad guy.

Then we are in agreement that the difficulty is to give both main leads something to do.
Is Superman really that good at being a Superhero? I mean, at the moment in the new film canon, he has all the powers of a Superhero, but he is far from organised like Batman is. Superman is smart, but at this point he is still a rookie in the Hero buisness.

I still prefer my idea of the two of them working independently and cross paths by accident through the film. Neither would trust the other at this point; why would they?

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Then we are in agreement that the difficulty is to give both main leads something to do.

Comes the problem when you make a teamup with a huge power level gap like that. Avengers had to deal with it to, though had an easier time since none of the members of the team are quite so WTF powerful as superman. I think they did a reasonably good job of showing the more street level powered half of the team performing pretty well in a skirmishing/sniping kinda way, while the heavy hitters went full on in.


...actually I think the biggest issue (this is a good movie, so not too big of an issue) was that Haweye and Natasha kinda outshowed Captain America in terms of fighting ability. What with Natasha highjacking sky chariots, and Hawkeye shooting down dozens of em with a fuckin' bow and arrow.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Is Superman really that good at being a Superhero?

Not in particular


I mean, nothing Superman did in Man of Steel really compares to the hostage rescue sequence in the Dark Knight.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I mean, at the moment in the new film canon, he has all the powers of a Superhero, but he is far from organised like Batman is. Superman is smart, but at this point he is still a rookie in the Hero buisness.

I still prefer my idea of the two of them working independently and cross paths by accident through the film. Neither would trust the other at this point; why would they?

Well he has secretly being doing heroic stuff for years, but nothing like crime fighting.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by playmaker2k

I think they'll be on opposing sides until something happens and be forced to take on the real threat together.

Agreed. And I suspect that the real threat is going to be Lex Luthor. Who conveniently (in this case) is another super-smart super-rich guy who relies a lot on tech, so there's no particular reason why Batman can't have a good fight with Luthor.

My suspicion is that Batman is not going to be happy over losing that satellite in Man of Steel. Luthor will probably smooth-talk Bruce into believing that Superman is a threat to humanity that needs to be taken out.

Batman will likely cause Superman all sorts of grief, and Batman will largely get away with it since Superman isn't going to do something that could conceivably kill Batman (whatever one thinks of how Superman vs. Zod played out, it makes it very clear that even this Superman wants to avoid killing his enemies if at all possible).

Eventually Batman will realize he's been duped by Luthor, and that's when Batman and Superman team-up to face Lex (who'll probably be bolstered by the support of a powerful ally - Maybe Brainiac or a major Bat-rogue; maybe someone like Clayface).

[Ithekro]

The World's Finest was Lex Luthor and the Joker. Both normal humans (mostly). Both very clever individuals that have gadgets or money. That story has Joker steal several pounds of Kryptonite to sell to Luthor, but there is always a catch...from both parties of the deal. Luthor wants power and the satifaction of defeating the Man of Steel. Joker wants to see the world burn for a laugh. Superman can't take on Joker and Luthor when they have Kryptonite, and even Batman has trouble dealing with the ultra rich and ultra clever Lex Luthor's brand of weapons. So they work together for a common goal. And even then the only way they can really win is if the villians backstab each other's plans.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Actually it will work since Zack Snyder says he is doing an adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns comics, were Bruce comes back from retirement at 55 and meets Superman.

Actually, he very specifically said he is NOT adapting Dark Knight Returns.