Character Discussion - Suzaku

[Var]

Originally Posted by Silver Soul

You may want to get your facts straight for once

Yes. The Chinese invaded during the chaos started by the Order. They were hoping to take advantage of the frail situation and they did not expect the Order, which was Pro-Japan, to interfere because the action would 'liberate' Japan.

Or did I forget something?

Mayhaps you should drop your airs of superiority? Just maybe...

[demon_god04]

They may not have been actively seeking an alliance but they expected the Black Knights to be on their side rather then the Britannians.

edit: Var got to it first.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Var

They were trying to side with the Order in S1.

I thought they rejected the Order from C.C. words and tried to conquer area 11 for themselves. Or was their invasion all part of someplan they had with Lulu to further strengthen his hold on the people?

[Ruvixur]

Originally Posted by Var

Yes. The Chinese invaded during the chaos started by the Order. They were hoping to take advantage of the frail situation and they did not expect the Order, which was Pro-Japan, to interfere because the action would 'liberate' Japan.

Or did I forget something?

There was also a fact of C.C. coming to China.

[Var]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

I thought they rejected the Order from C.C. words and tried to conquer area 11 for themselves. Or was their invasion all part of someplan they had with Lulu to further strengthen his hold on the people?

They had hoped to be left alone by the Order, to not become enemies. But Zero rejected them, because the entire thing was a sham.

[demon_god04]

It was also likely that the main reason China originally declined to aid Zero because they had Kawaguchi and the remnants of the Japanese government to use to legitimately take Japan from Britannia. Although I found it odd they did not make a move sooner and coordinated their efforts with the Japanese Liberation Front.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

It was also likely that the main reason China originally declined to aid Zero because they had Kawaguchi and the remnants of the Japanese government to use to legitimately take Japan from Britannia. Although I found it odd they did not make a move sooner and coordinated their efforts with the Japanese Liberation Front.

The JLF was useless. The order pretty much destablised the whole Area, thats why they made there move

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

The JLF was useless. The order pretty much destablised the whole Area, thats why they made there move

The JLF was only useless AFTER that complete and utter domination at the hands of Cornelia. Of course they were out numbered about 3-1 in that fight, so even that has to be taken with a grain of salt (doesn't help that Lelouch took out most of their fighting force with that landslide of his). If they moved sooner and joined with the JLF, who knows what would have happened.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Orga777

The JLF was only useless AFTER that complete and utter domination at the hands of Cornelia. Of course they were out numbered about 3-1 in that fight, so even that has to be taken with a grain of salt (doesn't help that Lelouch took out most of their fighting force with that landslide of his). If they moved sooner and joined with the JLF, who knows what would have happened.

Likely they had expected the Order and the JLF to unite, and give them a stronger internal army for when the Chinese would invade. However, since the JLF was destroyed by Zero, it likely delayed their plans until the entire area was simply thrown out of whack by Zero.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Orga777

The JLF was only useless AFTER that complete and utter domination at the hands of Cornelia. Of course they were out numbered about 3-1 in that fight, so even that has to be taken with a grain of salt (doesn't help that Lelouch took out most of their fighting force with that landslide of his). If they moved sooner and joined with the JLF, who knows what would have happened.

I'm not going to argue this with you again.

I'll respect your opinion but it strikes me as odd that in the 7 odd years that Japan was conquered all they did was hide in a mountain. Espically since it was Clovis they were facing and not someone you know dangerous.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

I'm not going to argue this with you again.

I'll respect your opinion but it strikes me as odd that in the 7 odd years that Japan was conquered all they did was hide in a mountain. Espically since it was Clovis they were facing and not someone you know dangerous.

What? They were the most active fighting force IN Japan for those seven years. They didn't just "hide in a mountain."

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Orga777

What? They were the most active fighting force IN Japan for those seven years. They didn't just "hide in a mountain."

In EP8 when everyone was kidnapped Zero asked Kusakabe why he was doing this. He answered so that the world will not forget aboutthe Japanese. If there were really so active he wouldn't have had to do this in the first place.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

In EP8 when everyone was kidnapped Zero asked Kusakabe why he was doing this. He answered so that the world will not forget aboutthe Japanese. If there were really so active he wouldn't have had to do this in the first place.

Right. Because it makes so much sense that they were getting a whole bunch of Burai and other weapons from the Kyoto Group and weren't using them.

As for Kusakabe saying that, I think he meant the entire movement, not just this one event. Besides, if the JLF WASN'T a threat, then why the hell did Cornelia see fit to send pretty much everything at them to completely destroy them there? If they were useless, why did some of Zero's men suggest they join up WITH the JLF? Sorry, not buying it.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Right. Because it makes so much sense that they were getting a whole bunch of Burai and other weapons from the Kyoto Group and weren't using them.

As for Kusakabe saying that, I think he meant the entire movement, not just this one event. Besides, if the JLF WASN'T a threat, then why the hell did Cornelia see fit to send pretty much everything at them to completely destroy them there? If they were useless, why did some of Zero's men suggest they join up WITH the JLF? Sorry, not buying it.

If the JLF was such a threat why did she crush smaller groups first(fierce Yamato and Samurai Blood). It would make more sense to deal with the biggest threat first and then proceed to the smaller ones.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

If the JLF was such a threat why did she crush smaller groups first(fierce Yamato and Samurai Blood). It would make more sense to deal with the biggest threat first and then proceed to the smaller ones.

She wanted to lure out Zero. Wasn't that obvious? Notice that those smaller groups she dealt with first she used a fraction of the fighting force she used against the JLF. Again, not buying it.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

I'm not going to argue this with you again.

I'll respect your opinion but it strikes me as odd that in the 7 odd years that Japan was conquered all they did was hide in a mountain. Espically since it was Clovis they were facing and not someone you know dangerous.

If I recall correctly, during Lelouch's first battle against him, Clovis remarked, "is this guy Toudo?"

So Clovis must've had dealt with the JLF, and Toudo specifically, within those 7 years.

If the JLF was such a threat why did she crush smaller groups first(fierce Yamato and Samurai Blood). It would make more sense to deal with the biggest threat first and then proceed to the smaller ones.

She was looking for Zero and was looking through all possible hideouts. The JLF was saved for the last and being a secret base I don't think she was able to locate it until then.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

If I recall correctly, during Lelouch's first battle against him, Clovis remarked, "is this guy Toudo?"

He most likely thought it was Todou since as far as he knows Todou is the only good commander they have. Well judging by his results during the war anyway.

[xXlinfordXx]

why does everyone seem to hate suzaku......
I think that inside he still has morales, I mean I understand why he opposes Zero's terrorist ways ( I do too a bit) and how he thinks it is not a good way to obtain what you want by the means of sacrificing human blood
but he is just to blinded by the idea of changing japan from the inside and the death of Euphie and that probably makes him stubborn and arrogant sometimes
maybe it is because I'm just a hopeless romantic and found the end of euphie so heart-wrenching ( I actually cried when she had her last moments with suzaku)
so I find suzaku's avenging bearable in some sense ( I find it cute how he treasures euphie's pen)

I just been reading other forums and there are alot of anti-suzaku people
I'm thinking that he might die at the end or something (even thou lelouch geassed him to live on) but if he does die I hope it would be like in a respectable way like
suzaku gets shoot
lelouch catches him
suzaku: I just wanted to create a peaceful japan....
and change it from the inside of britannia..breaths heavy
I never wanted to go against you.... lelouch
sorry I failed as a friend...starts to tear
lelouch: suzaku you can still change!
suzaku: sorry lelouch closes his eyes *in other words he dies*
lelouch lets out anguish scream

probably with this ending both anti-suzaku and suzaku will be happy in some sense
personaly I will prefer lelouch and suzaku to work together at the end to build an independant japan

[yezhanquan]

I guess both boys allowed their pride to get in the way. One is the son of a zealous PM, the other the son of an Emperor.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by xXlinfordXx

probably with this ending both anti-suzaku and suzaku will be happy in some sense
personaly I will prefer lelouch and suzaku to work together at the end to build an independant japan

Most Suzaku fans would be happy if he went out in an extremely GAR way.

I'm a KaLulu fan i dislike him but don't hate him, however if he is involved in next ep events my sympathy for him may rapidly evaporate.