(CR) Ace Attorney

[PreSage]

If they find out that Naru found and withheld evidence, wouldn't he be in trouble? As well as sneaking into a witness' room and removing/stealing potential evidence...??? Naru basically committed a crime there, no? I wonder how this will unfold if they find out about his actions?

And I just read that for the Japanese legal system you're guilty until proven innocent? Alrighty then...

[Dengar]

There is a reason why lawyers are heroes in Japan, unlike everywhere else.

As for withholding evidence, remember that the whole premise is basically a caricature, and Adventure-game style gameplay, don't sweat the details.

[xeviouses]

As long as the evidence is:

a.) approved by the police.
b.) relevant to the case

then he'll be okay. Whether he chooses to use said evidence during court is completely up to him.

Defense lawyers in Japan are basically heroes. See, everything is completely against them. The only time they get to see the evidence is during court. Until then, all they have going for them is their clients words.

[HayashiTakara]

I love this episode, great emotions in the latter half.

[serenade_beta]

Ep2
Other than the extremely random "Objection" at the end, it was a pretty good improvement from ep1.
Now I hope they can make the actual trial interesting... Though they already showed a witness going crazy in the preview... I don't get the decision to add that to the preview...

[Mister Twit]

Well, that was better. I don't think it's quite there yet - it really can't seem to nail the switch in tone between melodrama and comedy - but at least it's telling the story. Being Mayoi's first appearance I expected all of the attention to go into getting her correct at least, and she looked and sounded pretty spot-on.

On the other hand I'm going to have a really hard time getting used to Itonokogiri's voice. He sounds so bland. Not terrible, just not at all what I was expecting.

[Yamada II]

Episode 2
So Mayoi has been suspected of killing her sister. This felt as if the police didn't investigate things here and just decided that she's probably guilty since her name was written in blood on a receipt. I mean, they didn't even find her phone which could have been used as evidence either in favor or against her. That's a bit stupid.

Now the best prosecutor in business will try and prove Mayoi guilty and with no one else willing to take up the case, Naruhodo will try and prove her innocent. I'll at least see this case through. I'm really inclined towards dropping this. My Saturdays are already full and I can't afford to continue crap

[ccesarano]

Originally Posted by PreSage

If they find out that Naru found and withheld evidence, wouldn't he be in trouble? As well as sneaking into a witness' room and removing/stealing potential evidence...??? Naru basically committed a crime there, no? I wonder how this will unfold if they find out about his actions?

And I just read that for the Japanese legal system you're guilty until proven innocent? Alrighty then...

Also keep in mind that this is hardly Japanese Attorney Simulator 2016 (or in this case, 2001). It's all an entertainment product that bends the rules of reality quite frequently. So even where the Japanese and American courts differ, Ace Attorney will tend to lean towards "let's be entertaining and dramatic".

Originally Posted by Yamada II

Episode 2
So Mayoi has been suspected of killing her sister. This felt as if the police didn't investigate things here and just decided that she's probably guilty since her name was written in blood on a receipt. I mean, they didn't even find her phone which could have been used as evidence either in favor or against her. That's a bit stupid.

Yeah, that's Detective Gumshoe for ya. A well-meaning simpleton. He's very much a lovable goof that leaves a bad first impression, but also an accurate one.

He becomes much more of an ally in the future.

As for my thoughts: talk about switching gears. That first episode left such a questionable impression, but this one has me really curious to see how the adaptation turns out. The creative liberties all seem to be in the spirit of the game's writing and drama, and they seem to be doubling down on the relationship between Phoenix and Maya (apologies, this is my first dive into the Japanese names and I cannot for the life of me recall them over the American names). Still uncertain about whether the court case itself will capture that same exhilaration of problem-solving that the games manage, but this episode proved there's certainly something for this show to offer.

Will definitely keep watching.

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by PreSage

And I just read that for the Japanese legal system you're guilty until proven innocent? Alrighty then...

It's not quite that simple, but Japan does have an astonishingly high conviction rate for a bunch of reasons. Trials were, until very recently, conducted with only a judge, not a jury, and in the (very few cases) of a judge declaring the accused not guilty, it almost always seemed to have a negative impact on their career, according to one study.

And as someone else here pointed out, defense attorneys are massively disadvantaged by the system (and prosecutors tend to be very active in the police investigation, which gives them an edge). So the system is - or was, until recently - very biased towards guilty verdicts.

The other part of it though is that prosecutors in Japan are much more cautious about bringing cases to trial - they have to be, Japan's government doesn't employ many lawyers at all. In 2000, only 43% of murder cases were brought to trial in Japan, compared to 75% in the US, and the rule of thumb seems to be that prosecutors will only take a case to trial if the evidence is indisputable.

So there's a combination of factors at work. The system was, until recently, pretty horribly biased (and still is, to a lesser extent), but there's also the fact that cases almost never get to trial unless there's overwhelming evidence.

[Dengar]

As a resident of a country that doesn't use a jury system I don't really think the fault in the system lies with that in and of itself.

[grecefar]

this is getting good, too bad they already killed the teacher ;-; I'm looking foward to Naruhodo to prove Mayoi innocent. Against the best? let's see.

[Wandering Soul]

I don't get how they decided that she was guilty based on simply on the fact that her name was on the paper.

Other than that and the random "Objection" at the end, this episode was an improvement.

[Dengar]

They arrested her because of the note. Whether she's guilty or not has not yet been decided.

[jcdietz03]

When it rains, it pours.
Your sister was murdered, and if that wasn't already bad enough, you are accused of doing it.

I, too, didn't know before watching that the names are really different between JA and EN versions.
Phoenix Wright <-> Naruhodo Ryuuichi
Larry Butz <-> Yahari Masashi
Mia Fey <-> Chiro Ayasato
Maya Fey <-> Mayoi Ayasato
...I didn't catch the others. Crunchyroll subs use EN names.

I'm not a game player, BTW. I have no idea what happens. I'd hazard a guess that Phoenix doesn't die because of Plot Armor. Other than that, I have no idea.

Episode 2 was a really bad episode. PLOT:

Spoiler:

1) Kill Mia Fey off
2) Introduce us to Mayoi, Miles Edgeworth, and Dick Gumshoe. There's also the random NPC guy and the "omniscient council of vagueness"-style villain (even though it looks like it's just the one guy).
3) Some evidence gathering. Mayoi's phone and the wiretap machine.

I can't say any of that was particularly exciting. I enjoyed ep. 1 much more.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

Defense lawyers in Japan are basically heroes. See, everything is completely against them. The only time they get to see the evidence is during court. Until then, all they have going for them is their clients words.

Wow, I thought that was just artistic license to make the game interesting. Do the prosecutors even have an obligation to present all the evidence?

[foxbox360]

I prefer the american names because I played the first three games on my ds. They going to adapt the first game for this season?

[PreSage]

Originally Posted by xeviouses

As long as the evidence is:

a.) approved by the police.
b.) relevant to the case

then he'll be okay. Whether he chooses to use said evidence during court is completely up to him.

Defense lawyers in Japan are basically heroes. See, everything is completely against them. The only time they get to see the evidence is during court. Until then, all they have going for them is their clients words.

Originally Posted by DMurphy

It's not quite that simple, but Japan does have an astonishingly high conviction rate for a bunch of reasons. Trials were, until very recently, conducted with only a judge, not a jury, and in the (very few cases) of a judge declaring the accused not guilty, it almost always seemed to have a negative impact on their career, according to one study.

And as someone else here pointed out, defense attorneys are massively disadvantaged by the system (and prosecutors tend to be very active in the police investigation, which gives them an edge). So the system is - or was, until recently - very biased towards guilty verdicts.

The other part of it though is that prosecutors in Japan are much more cautious about bringing cases to trial - they have to be, Japan's government doesn't employ many lawyers at all. In 2000, only 43% of murder cases were brought to trial in Japan, compared to 75% in the US, and the rule of thumb seems to be that prosecutors will only take a case to trial if the evidence is indisputable.

So there's a combination of factors at work. The system was, until recently, pretty horribly biased (and still is, to a lesser extent), but there's also the fact that cases almost never get to trial unless there's overwhelming evidence.

Whoa, the legal system over there sounds...jeez, I don't even want to say it. It's a good thing there are so little crime in Japan...or maybe that's the reason why there are so little "reported" crimes in Japan. No wonder this guy who lives in Japan says that the police holds most power; that you can't really argue with them even if you're innocent. You just simply apologize as much as you can and hope they'll go easy on you. Certainly not something I can ever understand or agree with.

[Cerilla]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

I don't get how they decided that she was guilty based on simply on the fact that her name was on the paper.

Other than that and the random "Objection" at the end, this episode was an improvement.

Technically she hasn't convicted, yet. That is what the trial for.

Originally Posted by jcdietz03

I, too, didn't know before watching that the names are really different between JA and EN versions.
Phoenix Wright <-> Naruhodo Ryuuichi
Larry Butz <-> Yahari Masashi
Mia Fey <-> Chiro Ayasato
Maya Fey <-> Mayoi Ayasato
...I didn't catch the others. Crunchyroll subs use EN names.

I'm not a game player, BTW. I have no idea what happens. I'd hazard a guess that Phoenix doesn't die because of Plot Armor. Other than that, I have no idea.

Spoiler for About Game Localization:

The name of peoples in this series are incredibly pun-tastic. For example our lawyer Ryuuichi Naruhodo. If you watch anime for a while, you'll definitely catch that Naruhodo pretty much mean "I see". Now people who don't know Japanese won't catch this pun, so to remedy this the localized decided to change the name to something that english speaker understand. This is how we end up with Wright as the english name of our lawyer. And so everyone, I mean everyone, names got changed to preserve its pun-tastic nature.

And don't get me started of the cultural localization. If you watch the episode, you will notice that Miso Ramen is changed to Burger in the subs. Granted I don't play the japanese version of the games, but I can vouch that in the english version of the games Maya loves burger.

You can read what the localizer take on the localization process in this article. Tread carefully since there might be potential spoiler. Especially if you decide to read her other articles.

In my opinion, Ace Attorney is one of the best localization in the industry.

---

Okay, back to the show. That was improvement compared to the first episode. They managed to get the main point of the investigation part of the second case in single episode. Also the latter half of the episode feels like an television show instead of let's play session, so props to them. Hope they will step up their game in the trial, as well.

[Pellissier]

Originally Posted by jcdietz03

I, too, didn't know before watching that the names are really different between JA and EN versions.

Didn't play the game and I'm having a hard time enjoying the show when I clearly hear japanese names or words translated with something else entirely. I understand the procedure, but I find it disrespectful to non game players. Furthermore the original names contain enjoyable puns (just see "Naruhodo" and "Yahari") while the localization doesn't work on me.

I wish they could use a double sub track (episode 1 version 1 came out with japanese names and was then replaced) with both versions of the names.

As for the series, really old school style, but since I think I've never seen anime featuring an attorney (or a prosecutor for that matter) I'm trying to stick to it.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Cerilla

In my opinion, Ace Attorney is one of the best localization in the industry.

It isn't really the case when they felt like making the game "happening in America", denaturing a lot of stuff in the process.
The whole deal with Mayoi liking burgers definitely doesn't have the same connotation than a ramen lover, and of course some cases because helluva inconsistent because they somehow have to justify the obvious change of settings. I'm not even surprised they don't even try localizing Daigyakuten Saiban as result.

Whereas they did an outstanding work for puns and the writing style, they definitely strayed too far away from the original setup.



Anyway, episode 2 is an "improvement" over episode 1, but still have too many shortcoming.
I don't have any problem with the "original content" whatsoever, but then again, the problem is how things are delivered (the humor is really badly handled, especially when Ryuuichi was talking with Mayoi early on, be it reactions, BGM etc).
And yeah, that objection at the very end was random and lacked punch considering its context.