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Old 2012-02-29, 17:33   Link #1841
Kotohono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Fiora's not out in Europe yet Funny you should mention jungle Yi, I just got out of such a game. Pretty fast time (did a straight blue->red->wolves path with all the rest in it and ganked top), full HP, no smite I rarely ever sub smite on junglers, but cleanse/ghost is just too damn good on him. Add youmuu's active and a cleaver, and he's a real killing machine. His Q is imba though, I dodged ace in the hole with alpha strike...such a waste of an ulti.

Atmog's is the staple combo of any tough dps, which is probably the predominant class in LoL. Can't just get rid of it like that...but after the new items, I'm sure riot will make something even better!
Jungle Yi is fun for sure, his ult and red is just deadly .

And I dunno personally I don't run Atmog on either my tough dps normally(Irelia, and Skarner) I prefer Omen/FoN for Irelia normally and Wit's End/Frozen Heart for Skarner(CDR is awesome on him and he so dam mana hungry generally without blue ), though I've been trying tough dps/AD Nidalee and she does run it with some effectiveness, mostly due her cougar's passive armor/MR and Q AD ratio though.
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Old 2012-02-29, 18:38   Link #1842
Eisdrache
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If I see a jungle Fiora again for this week I'll just dodge queue. Why anyone would even think of playing someone with zero CC as jungler is beyond me. Already so tired of my team having ~80cs around the 20min mark. Lately I have getting a ton of those retards on my side which ruins most of my games.
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Old 2012-02-29, 23:34   Link #1843
Kotohono
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
If I see a jungle Fiora again for this week I'll just dodge queue. Why anyone would even think of playing someone with zero CC as jungler is beyond me. Already so tired of my team having ~80cs around the 20min mark. Lately I have getting a ton of those retards on my side which ruins most of my games.
<_< GP has been considered a good jungler for a while and he has no CC outside of slow on passive or ult, and WW only has CC on ult, and Shyvana is a popular junlger with absolutely no CC..., so I don't see why Fiora and Yi can't jungle when they only CC they need to kill is red, I mean they same argue could made to others role of why bring a solo top, or mid solo who can't CC.

But I mean obviously if you have Vlad Mid, and Morde or Rumble top, then she isn't really an ideal choice... but I don't see a reason a jungler must have CC, I mean personally I'd rather a jungler who has good dragon control w/o CC and can get it early than someone who can't solo dragon if at all but has CC like Rammus or Amumu. Also Fiora doesn't really need blue which means she give to her mid on 2nd or 3rd kill and not really suffer to much jungling speed for it.

Also bad players do seem rampart lately...
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Old 2012-03-01, 00:02   Link #1844
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
If I see a jungle Fiora again for this week I'll just dodge queue. Why anyone would even think of playing someone with zero CC as jungler is beyond me. Already so tired of my team having ~80cs around the 20min mark. Lately I have getting a ton of those retards on my side which ruins most of my games.
There are 2 reasons for jungler.

1. They could gank.
2. They are bad in lane.

It's not a rule that jungler must have CC.
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Old 2012-03-01, 01:38   Link #1845
Kafriel
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Shyvana, WW and GP all have MS boosts, just like Fiora; she's got a good MS boost and a double gap closer. Tag someone with red and you got good chances of ganking them. Yi doesn't have any CC but I seriously suck at laning with him, can't stay alive if I go for the kill and get harassed too much for my comfort.

Quote:
Also bad players do seem rampart lately...
WTF @ Taric who quit after feeding 7 times in 10 minutes, because "his build didn't work out", starting with Nashor's...
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Old 2012-03-01, 01:52   Link #1846
DragoonKain3
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Fiora is decent ganker because of gap closer + insane single target damage. At least, she's a better ganker than Shyvana... that omnislash is pretty darn lethal when you're ganking a solo lane.
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Old 2012-03-01, 07:35   Link #1847
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
<_< GP has been considered a good jungler for a while and he has no CC outside of slow on passive or ult, and WW only has CC on ult, and Shyvana is a popular junlger with absolutely no CC..., so I don't see why Fiora and Yi can't jungle when they only CC they need to kill is red, I mean they same argue could made to others role of why bring a solo top, or mid solo who can't CC.

But I mean obviously if you have Vlad Mid, and Morde or Rumble top, then she isn't really an ideal choice... but I don't see a reason a jungler must have CC, I mean personally I'd rather a jungler who has good dragon control w/o CC and can get it early than someone who can't solo dragon if at all but has CC like Rammus or Amumu. Also Fiora doesn't really need blue which means she give to her mid on 2nd or 3rd kill and not really suffer to much jungling speed for it.

Also bad players do seem rampart lately...
A gap closer isn't cc.

GP has a slow and global presence with his ult. Being able to participate in whatever fight no matter where should never be underestimated.
WW has a supress. The ability to delete someone from the fight completely is important not only for ganks but for teamfights too.
Shyvana's ganking potential is generally considered to be low but she has a knockback and an escape tool. You jungle with her because of her insane clearing speed and great counter-jungling potential, not because of her ganks.

There is indeed no rule about having CC on your jungler but it is somewhat pointless if you try to gank someone ... and they just run back to their tower.
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Old 2012-03-01, 08:47   Link #1848
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
A gap closer isn't cc.

GP has a slow and global presence with his ult. Being able to participate in whatever fight no matter where should never be underestimated.
WW has a supress. The ability to delete someone from the fight completely is important not only for ganks but for teamfights too.
Shyvana's ganking potential is generally considered to be low but she has a knockback and an escape tool. You jungle with her because of her insane clearing speed and great counter-jungling potential, not because of her ganks.

There is indeed no rule about having CC on your jungler but it is somewhat pointless if you try to gank someone ... and they just run back to their tower.
Erm....most jungler doesn't wait until lv 6 to gank, you know?
And you don't gank a lane alone. You need that lane's teammate, too. A lane without trouble doesn't need ganking.

Beside, I've yet to see anyone without red and goes ganking.
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Old 2012-03-01, 09:20   Link #1849
Waven
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@Eisdrache: Why does Fiora not fall into the same category of junglers as Shyvana? Her jungle clear is so stable I saw people starting with dorans doing quite good and her counterjungling is ridiculous - when she pops her E few things can stand to her 1v1 power.
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Old 2012-03-01, 18:39   Link #1850
Eisdrache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
Erm....most jungler doesn't wait until lv 6 to gank, you know?
And you don't gank a lane alone. You need that lane's teammate, too. A lane without trouble doesn't need ganking.

Beside, I've yet to see anyone without red and goes ganking.
Yes that is correct, I didn't say anything else. Actually I never even mentioned ganking pre-6 or ganking alone so what exactly was your point again?
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Old 2012-03-01, 19:21   Link #1851
-Sho-
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I think Fiora needs a little nerf for her dmg , she deals heavy dmg. She's insane with her ulti & Burst of speed , oh god , give her infinite edge , 3+ critic dmg in a row , she 3 shots a carry. Lifesteal with her works like a charm.
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Old 2012-03-01, 20:15   Link #1852
Waven
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Originally Posted by -Sho- View Post
I think Fiora needs a little nerf for her dmg , she deals heavy dmg. She's insane with her ulti & Burst of speed , oh god , give her infinite edge , 3+ critic dmg in a row , she 3 shots a carry. Lifesteal with her works like a charm.
Pretty much... not to mention she becomes basically invulnerable during her ulti which me and my Kennen ulti had to find out the hard way

But yes, it's mostly the damage that is a bit too much right now. That and her walk animation - whoever thought it would look cool to have a fencing stance while running was, in my opinion, utterly wrong, she seems way too stiff.
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Old 2012-03-01, 21:03   Link #1853
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
Yes that is correct, I didn't say anything else. Actually I never even mentioned ganking pre-6 or ganking alone so what exactly was your point again?
Quote:
GP has a slow and global presence with his ult. Being able to participate in whatever fight no matter where should never be underestimated.
WW has a supress. The ability to delete someone from the fight completely is important not only for ganks but for teamfights too.
Shyvana's ganking potential is generally considered to be low but she has a knockback and an escape tool. You jungle with her because of her insane clearing speed and great counter-jungling potential, not because of her ganks.
Weren't we talking about jungling just now? Everything you mentioned are their ult, aren't they?
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Old 2012-03-02, 01:49   Link #1854
DragoonKain3
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Being a melee carry, I think her damage is justified (her auto damage is around Yi's output). Plus omnislash is so cool that I don't want it nerfed lol.
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Old 2012-03-02, 01:54   Link #1855
Duo Maxwell
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Originally Posted by -Sho- View Post
She's insane with her ulti & Burst of speed , oh god , give her infinite edge , 3+ critic dmg in a row , she 3 shots a carry. Lifesteal with her works like a charm.
Are you talking about Yi?
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Old 2012-03-02, 02:25   Link #1856
Kafriel
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I agree with DragoonKain3, Fiora's burst of speed lasts a whooping 3 seconds, Yi's highlander duration is 12s + slow immunity. Yes, it's his ultimate but it refreshes just as easily...plus, she is still easily countered by mages who know how2build.
Zilean with RoA, Rylai's, DFG, frozen heart, sorc boots and abyssal scepter can play around with her (well, you can take off a couple of these items and it's still the same).

I wonder, what happens when Fiora uses blade waltz and Yi casts Alpha strike at the same time?
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Old 2012-03-03, 17:27   Link #1857
Eisdrache
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
Weren't we talking about jungling just now? Everything you mentioned are their ult, aren't they?
So what? I took the junglers Konakaga posted, nothing more to it. Each one of them can gank pre-6 too but their early ganks are not as scary as Maokai or Alistar for example.
The fact that you're the only one who even thought about ganking the lane without your team mate still stands.
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Old 2012-03-04, 23:04   Link #1858
Duo Maxwell
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Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
So what? I took the junglers Konakaga posted, nothing more to it. Each one of them can gank pre-6 too but their early ganks are not as scary as Maokai or Alistar for example.
The fact that you're the only one who even thought about ganking the lane without your team mate still stands.
If you are not saying anything about ganking a lane without your teammate, then why does a jungler without CC actually matters much? Your teammates could be the one who provide the CC. All the junglers need to do is clearing the forest fast and provide extra hand on the lane that need help.
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Old 2012-03-06, 11:42   Link #1859
DragoonKain3
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Wow, CLG and Dignitas ripping their group apart in IEM Hannover. Especially Dignitas, whose only loss of the day was them just playing stupid and getting 2 barons stolen from under them even when they're up 20k gold at one point.
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Old 2012-03-07, 04:40   Link #1860
Kafriel
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Curse dominated the first game...Kog'Maw+Morgana=GG. At least TSM really tried hard, got to steal baron and lay down some extreme ward harassment, but with Cop never going down, it was bound to be over soon. TSM: "We weren't really sure if we should kill the tanks or go for Kog'Maw". Wtf...

M5 vs EHOME: Jungle ownage from the first few minutes, roamer Janna ftw! EHOME focusing GP didn't help much either. Gotta hand it to M5, they had insane teamwork, swapping lanes and serving early cheese...really gg, albeit one-sided.

Last edited by Kafriel; 2012-03-07 at 05:55.
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