Madoka Magica - General Discussion

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Oh wow, that sounds even more concrete than the last update on this. And with him actually saying that suggests that he'd stay on as writer?

[LightDragonman]

That would be cool.

Also, regardless of what you think of the movie it's from, I feel that this theme does fit Homura and maybe even Sayaka pretty well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZtMHSOq50Q

[silvercover]

huzzah, finally I can get a definite conclusion to the pairings.

this might put my fanfic in indefinite suspension though, as a proper continuation would make my fanfic more invalid than usual.

[woxx]

Originally Posted by omimon

From AX2014 Gen panel:

>魔法少女まどかマギカは、勢いに任せて書ききった作品。当初はまさかこれほど世界中の人々に見られるよう なアニメになるとは思っていなかったと述べ、続編については、今、必死にシャフトと一緒に続きを考えている 最中。

>Gen wrote PMMM with momentum from the very beginning to the conclusion. He didn't expect this show would become this famous and got many fans world-widely. On a sequel, he's now thinking its continuation desperately with Shaft.

Make sense I guess. The last movie just left everyone in the middle of nowhere.

It's still very early to be sure about sequel. No writers will say that there won't be a sequel of their show.

[Laevatein]

Originally Posted by woxx

It's still very early to be sure about sequel. No writers will say that there won't be a sequel of their show.

Well, wasn't one of the reasons for Yoshiyuki Tomino's "kill 'em all" tendencies (in the old days) a desire to avoid making sequels? (The other reason being depression)

[silvercover]

not sure if this was posted before but...
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...after-3rd-film

[Triple_R]

A two cour anime show, branching off of the Rebellion movie, would be quite ambitious.

It would also pretty much demand new character creation. I don't know how you could keep going for 24 episodes or so with just the core six Puella Magi, Kyubey, and random MotWs (be they nightmares, wraiths, witches, or whatever).

Honestly, if it's a full two cour show, and it's conflict-focused like most magical girl shows are (i.e. fighting action regularly takes place), they'd probably have to create new antagonists, if not outright villains. Either that, or borrow from what already exists in Madoka Magica spinoffs (Oriko, Kirika, etc...).


In any event, it's good to hear that Gen and SHAFT have big plans for the franchise, and that the movie trilogy likely isn't the end of it.

[LightDragonman]

So do you guys think that Madoka's decision at the end of the series worked well enough in the context of the story? Cause some see at as going against the themes of the story, for these reasons:

"So you don't count the ending as an ass-pull? Because why? Karmic bonding was mentioned two episodes before? Does that make SAO's plot-twist of star-burst stream good because Kirito found it in his inventory an episode before? sigh Foreshadowing a character has power is not the same thing as establishing a consistent rule throughout the universe. Karmic Bonding is not an established rule. The ending was the definition of a deus ex machina. How was it not an ass pull to you? To escape fate--just wish to become a god. Problem solved. It especially flies in the face of everything previous when good intentions always lead to bad outcomes. This is why Rebellion exists--even though I hate that film it at least is somewhat consistent with the series' thematic intentions. "

[Akito Kinomoto]

The point of the TV series' ending is Madoka wanted to prevent the Puella Magis wishes from perverting. Mind you, they still die when they cross the despair horizon and they're still putting their heads on the line. This is really the age-old question of whether you'd prefer to die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Either one is a bad a outcome, and you could consider Madoka a bit short sighted when unexpected things come up (Wraiths. Oops). Good intentions from young teenagers is an oversight waiting to happen. Conversely, many people suspect it should've been Homura who gained all that power tying destiny to herself so many times. My head canon is if the threads of fate can tie around one half of an ongoing wish, then it could also happen to the other. But that's just my head canon, and without confirmation it should be Homura's ascension people call an ass pull. And btw, citing an example from an oft-maligned series doesn't validate anything here, nor does something here validate something from an oft-maligned series. Infamous shows have a tendency for viewers to start warping little details when there's deeper actual problems with something beyond some abilities.

Is what I would say to these people.

[iSuckAtWriting]

So is anyone else looking forward to Nico-watching whatever they're making after Rebellion?

[woxx]

Originally Posted by iSuckAtWriting

So is anyone else looking forward to Nico-watching whatever they're making after Rebellion?

I follow almost everything madoka related, but as I like rebellion too much, I don't even know if I want a sequel. I'm even afraid of it.

[iSuckAtWriting]

Originally Posted by woxx

I follow almost everything madoka related, but as I like rebellion too much, I don't even know if I want a sequel. I'm even afraid of it.

Nico thinks Rebellion is a good movie, but they make waaay too many mistakes. I think I'm not alone saying the main series needs to Nico-end, and maybe they could make a show out of Different Story or Kazumi Magica if they wanted to.

[woxx]

Originally Posted by iSuckAtWriting

Nico thinks Rebellion is a good movie, but they make waaay too many mistakes.

After monthes of deep analyze I see this movie as perfect, but I understand some people can complain about things. High budget animation(compating to original TV) and music make it masterpiece. If they make more Madoka, it would be just much worse.

[Szadek]

Originally Posted by iSuckAtWriting

Nico thinks Rebellion is a good movie, but they make waaay too many mistakes. I think I'm not alone saying the main series needs to Nico-end, and maybe they could make a show out of Different Story or Kazumi Magica if they wanted to.

The series really should end soon,but I still wanted 1 more sequel.
Rebellion is just not a good way to end the series.
In the worst case we always have the ending of the manga.

I wouldn't mind a Different Story anime,although they should fix some of the problems the story of the manga had.

All I can say about Kazumi is that the I dropped after 10 pages,because it was so freaking bad.

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Originally Posted by Szadek

The series really should end soon,but I still wanted 1 more sequel.
Rebellion is just not a good way to end the series.
In the worst case we always have the ending of the manga.

I wouldn't mind a Different Story anime,although they should fix some of the problems the story of the manga had.

All I can say about Kazumi is that the I dropped after 10 pages,because it was so freaking bad.

You didn't give it much of a chance... Although admittedly I thought that it was crap BUT I did continue. Volume 2 wasn't much better but from Volume 3 to 5 the story is superb. I was so glad I didn't stop reading after volume 1 because 3, 4 and 5 actually had great progression and a really neat plot twist, volume 3 is basically where Kazumi Magica becomes worthy of the Puella Magi franchise.

I'd rate the 5 volumes as such.

1) 3/10
2) 4/10
3) 9/10
4) 10/10
5) 9/10

[Solace]

I agree. There was a lull after the first volume but once things start getting explained it really ramps up and finishes as a worthy part of the franchise. I'd love to see Kazumi animated some day.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by LightDragonman

So do you guys think that Madoka's decision at the end of the series worked well enough in the context of the story?

Yes, absolutely.

I'm honestly amazed how anybody can consider the ending of the TV series an ass-pull. Wishes are a central element of the narrative. There is no clear-cut limitations placed on the wishes (in sharp contrast to many other wish systems in fiction). Various character's wishes, and the reasoning behind them, is discussed in considerable detail. This is not some minor plot device or plot element that is briefly discussed only to conveniently be brought up again in the finale. It is at the very core of the narrative, and the narrative never lets you forget about it.

To complain about Madoka resolving the plot with a well-worded wish is like complaining about Dr. Who or Marty McFly resolving the plot with a particularly clever use of time travel.

It especially flies in the face of everything previous when good intentions always lead to bad outcomes.

This is completely false. Good intentions sometimes lead to good outcomes during the airing of the TV series. Many people were successfully rescued from witches during the airing of the TV series - Such as a woman that Mami rescued in Episode 2, and all the people that Sayaka rescued in Episode 4. There's no indication, at least none that I can recall, that anything bad ever happened to these rescued people.

Sayaka's wish did in fact heal Kyousuke's hand, no strings attached. No monkey's paw. That alone ought to have made it clear that Kyubey was in fact being reasonably fair in the wishes he was selling here. Kyouko's wish result might seem like a monkey's paw, but honestly, how else could her wish be granted except through mental manipulation of one type or another? Her wish basically necessitated mind control.

Also, even Homura herself admitted to the genuinely miraculous nature of Kyubey's wishes.

This is why Rebellion exists--even though I hate that film it at least is somewhat consistent with the series' thematic intentions. "

Whether or not the Rebellion ending constitutes a "bad outcome" is a matter of considerable debate. While I myself am inclined to think it isn't a good outcome, many other viewers feel otherwise, and Gen admittedly does leave enough wiggle room for viewers to see "happy end" here if they really want to.

Those who think that Madoka Magica is just some dark nihilistic tripe are (thankfully) wrong.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

There is no clear-cut limitations placed on the wishes (in sharp contrast to many other wish systems in fiction).

To be fair, the limitation appears to be the "magical potential" of the person making the wish. Not everyone could wish to be God, for example, but Madoka was able to do so precisely because of what Homura had done, yeah?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Whether or not the Rebellion ending constitutes a "bad outcome" is a matter of considerable debate. While I myself am inclined to think it isn't a good outcome, many other viewers feel otherwise, and Gen admittedly does leave enough wiggle room for viewers to see "happy end" here if they really want to.

Well, the second-to-last track on the OST is called "Happy Ending".

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

To be fair, the limitation appears to be the "magical potential" of the person making the wish.

I used the term "clear-cut limitations" for a reason. Magical potential is vaguely hinted at having some importance, but it's never really explained in any precise measurable way.

The way the wish system is setup, the viewer should be prepared for almost anything when it comes to wish-making. In Madoka's case, there's even added reason to be prepared for anything given all the "high potential" foreshadowing surrounding her.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The way the wish system is setup, the viewer should be prepared for almost anything when it comes to wish-making. In Madoka's case, there's even added reason to be prepared for anything given all the "high potential" foreshadowing surrounding her.

Yeah, I was just agreeing that it's not an asspull at all.