2010-11-29, 06:00 | Link #19182 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I think Ryukishi may have fallen into the "If I'm going to make fanon, canon I have to add depth to it" trap. He probably wanted to make her seem deep, and add conflict to their stories. But when there is sufficient conflict already there adding more to it makes it worse. Maybe the fans will try and reinvent it and it will change in the Manga? I don't know.
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2010-11-29, 06:13 | Link #19183 | |||
The True Culprit
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As for Okonogi, Battler never met him, did he? Quote:
How about the simplest answer that Occam's Razor leads us to? Higurashi was a different (set of) kakera, represented as a fiction novel Battler has access to.
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2010-11-29, 07:08 | Link #19184 |
Zero of the roulette
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Finland
Age: 30
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Actually, screw that blog text about George not being the culprit. Reading that and stopping thinking is my bad. After all, if Beatrice is indeed Shannon and is not the main culprit, who are the people she could be covering for? Of course George comes to mind. I'm having the mindset of the nice guy being the culprit similar to "the butler did it"... When you think about it, here we have a nice combo of Nice Guy + Servant culprit. This is not mystery, this is parody!
Not that it can't be taken seriously. A lead to a motive I found is that George wants to build his own kingdom, in a similar way to Kinzo. The Ushiromiya family was almost wiped out in an earthquake. Maybe George is trying to imitate it by killing everyone else in an explosion and surviving with Shannon. He is quite the romantic fellow... By surviving he'd get the inheritance. But there's a contradiction to what he's been saying. If he wanted to build his empire from scratch, would he want the inheritance? Maybe he's just planning to give it to the poor. That could clear some suspicions against him after the incident. He's bound to be suspected if he alone survives with his fiancee. It has also been speculated that George might have been the one buying his father's stocks. That could be his starting point, but isn't that also building on someone else's industry? I think I won't be disappointed if George turns out to be the culprit, because it will probably cause a brotherly fight to the death in the rain between Battler and George in EP8 (that body language thing when Ronove was introduced). Ryukishi's foreshadowing is wonderful. Don't know if Battler has any skills to beat him though. I do believe George has skills in martial arts, otherwise even introducing it would be pointless. It does prove George's point better if there's some epic fighting though! If thinking by who would Shannon cover for, another possible candidate with some culprit appeal would be Rosa. The cover-up might be for Maria's sake. Rosa has said that Maria is her only ally in the world. Those thoughts could bring up some murder intent, at least in the wacky mind of the best mom ever. About Higurashi, didn't Akasaka and Ooishi write a book about the Hinamizawa incident in Himatsubushi (at least in the manga)? If that's not the case, could Hachijo be the author of Higurashi as well, under a different handle from Itouikukuro or Tohya? What could be the logic error Bernkastel was dragged into be? If it was about Higurashi, it could imply there was some point Ryukishi had written himself to a corner, and needed to alter the answer to get everything right. Or was there some kind of mystery that wasn't solved? |
2010-11-29, 10:35 | Link #19186 | ||
Miss Kimi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 28
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I'm not saying George shouldn't be the culprit, it's just that I don't want him to be. Just me being selfish, I guess. But yeah, I guess it would kinda throw me through a loop if he really was the culprit, huh? Quote:
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2010-11-29, 11:19 | Link #19187 | ||
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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I'll admit that Higurashi being completely fictional in the world of Umineko is the simplest answer. However, unless you can show that every possible combination of arcs of Higurashi and Umineko (this includes every official version of every arc) leads to a contradiction, you cannot reasonably claim that it is impossible for them to take place in the same world. Last edited by Frisko; 2010-11-29 at 11:20. Reason: formatting |
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2010-11-29, 11:28 | Link #19188 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Impossible? No.
Extremely unlikely? Yes. Unless you can come up with a decent explanation as to how Okonogi suddenly became the head of a food catering company soon after the Hinamizawa incident. Since George said he's been working for Okonogi for a while and that he's been Hideyoshi's business partner, it is unreasonable to think that didn't happen at the very least three years before 1986. There is also the problem with Featherinne who has practically nothing to share with her counterpart in Higurashi. Lastly Bern's background story doesn't match at all. Unless you think that Higurashi sucked that much that you could compare it with some rubbish created by a bunch of monkeys pressing typewriters' buttons randomly.
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2010-11-29, 12:12 | Link #19189 |
Tortured Pet
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In "Her" crime scenes
Age: 32
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I just stumbled in on something very beautiful just now and that would be the connection that Higurashi and Umineko share. Here is my 2 cents without going into great detail:
Higurashi and Umineko are in the same universe just not in the way most people think. There are 2 people or rather characters who can make this possible in Umineko and one chapters in Higurashi that falls out of line from the others. Bernkestal and Featherinne are the main players in this theory and the "Dice Killing Chapter" work in the playing of the theory. I would like continue but I don't want to interrupt in another persons theory. I'll admit my theory does have holes in it but would anyone care to hear?
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2010-11-29, 12:24 | Link #19190 | |||
a.k.a. Akari_House
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere near Seattle
Age: 53
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Alternatively, Okonogi's business may be a cover operation. Quote:
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I don't understand how viewing Higurashi as a small part of Bern's larger backstory would somehow diminish Higurashi. If anything, I think it expands the possible meanings to be read in it, especially when looking at Frederica's poetry, and at possible "game moves" made that seemed more random chance before.
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2010-11-29, 12:54 | Link #19191 |
Miss Kimi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 28
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Hmm...Higurashi happened in 1983....Umineko happened in 1986.....
Featherine and Ange discussed the messing up of time between gods, and how six years can be equivalent to 1000 years... So if Bern was born through Higurashi...then including the logic error Bern was trapped in. Just thinking out loud here..
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2010-11-29, 12:57 | Link #19192 |
Thought Being
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
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I personally think people are taking the Gameboard ideas too seriously. I see them as analogies of what's going on, like the chess metaphors throughout the series. I don't think it's the be-all-end-all explanation for the meta-world, rather just how Bern and Lamba choose to look down on the human world, showing their detachment from the human emotions involved. I can't remember Ronove or Virgilia ever calling them gameboards, and doesn't Battler refer to them as 'tales' or 'fragments' instead?
I don't think that we need to think of Higurashi in terms on a gameboard, even if Bern and Lambda, maybe even Featherine, choose to look back on it in that way. And if you think about it, if Higurashi was the traumatizing 'logic error' Bern remembers, it makes sense she'd want to distance her emotional self from it as much as possible. She'd want to think back on it as a detached 'game' rather than remember what it was like when it was her reality.
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2010-11-29, 13:10 | Link #19193 | |
Tortured Pet
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In "Her" crime scenes
Age: 32
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The logic error would follow my theory and it would be the exact problem that Rika had in the series... if Rika Furude is to murdered, who is the one to act the part of the murderer. (This is the fact that if you believe that the "Dice Killing Chapter" is the true Higurashi tale).
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2010-11-29, 13:12 | Link #19194 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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I seriously see no reason for this to happen: we know by fact that Higurashi is considered as a fiction in umineko universe, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist as distant fragments in the same "When they cry" universe. Quote:
The connection is shown as a "base model", there is no implication or obligation for both to be the same, as shown with Bern and Lambda. Quote:
If anything else, it gives even more information regarding how things were stuck in loops. Eitherway, both franchise have a blatant connection that can be interpreted differently. But that connection has little to no impact to the actual quality, meaning and execution of their respective plot. Otherwise, it implies that people who didn't read Higurashi have a stark different experience than those who did, which is nonsensical.
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2010-11-29, 13:18 | Link #19195 | |
Miss Kimi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 28
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The game was not between Bernkastel and Lambdadelta; rather, it was between Featherine and Lambdadelta. Featherine then created a piece named Rika Furude. Featherine got herself trapped in a logic error, and it was said Bern was a piece and was unknowingly forced to fix the logic error her master (In this case, Featherine) created. Featherine then either created Hanyuu (or Hanyuu was already there) and the eternity of the logic error began, repeating for a long time (thus we now may have: Higurasi). Featherine and Lambda went about their business until Rika finally solved the logic error, and thus Bernkastel was (somehow xD) born. It explains why Bernkastel is afraid of Featherine. She hates Featherine for what she did and is still scared because Featherine could probably just make Bern her piece again or something... She even mispronounced her name to "Augustus auaurora" when they met up again for fun. Featherine released her as a piece and Bernkastel seperated herself from Rika, became a witch, whilst human Rika continued her life with her friends.
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2010-11-29, 13:26 | Link #19196 | |
Thought Being
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
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2010-11-29, 13:31 | Link #19197 | |
Miss Kimi
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Residing as the 18th guest of Rokkenjima
Age: 28
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2010-11-29, 13:48 | Link #19198 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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So, there I was, checking some information about the name Maria (this was unrelated to Umineko, though), when I stumbled over the fact that the name Manon is a French nickname for Marie (which is the French version of Maria).
I'm not trying to suggest anything with this. I'm merely leaving this here.
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2010-11-29, 13:51 | Link #19199 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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I never heard that being a nickname or a diminutive, but I see really no relevancy to umineko at all... care to explain?
Dumping information like that is anything but useful.
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2010-11-29, 13:55 | Link #19200 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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e- Also the name Maria could itself have a piece of symbolism in the story. Many have tried to find the origin of the name, some think it means bitter, or sea (latin mare), or Love/Beloved (Egyptian Mr/e) |
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