Several VS opinions

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

but in the case of TRANS-AM they become a poor imitation of Char by turning red and become 3 times faster. Of Course i don't think the speed of trans-am is really that fast just looks like it because of the after-images.

Not exactly. Trans-AM is a three-times-over increase of all aspects of the Gundam using it, as it affects all of the particles. As such, speed, beam strength, and defensive strength are all increased. As has been said before, Trans-AM is more than just a speed boost.

[zeroexia]

i see. i'm not well-versed in 00 technology but why does it create after-images, turn the entire gundam red. and for the speed, what i'm saying is that some are mislead to believe that trans-am makes 00 gundams faster than every other gundams in other series because of the afterimages.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

i see. i'm not well-versed in 00 technology but why does it create after-images, turn the entire gundam red. and for the speed, what i'm saying is that some are mislead to believe that trans-am makes 00 gundams faster than every other gundams in other series because of the afterimages.

For some Gundams, its probably true that Trans-AM makes them faster than them. I imagine the afterimages effect left by it is to help signify the speed without the animation team having to resort to indistinguishable blurs. But yeah, Trans-AM isn't said to outstrip most matchups because of a speed increase, but because of all of bonuses it grants, as it is a very powerful function that is rarely ever seen in Gundams or other mobile suits across all of the different series.

[Death Header]

About the performance boosting in Trans-Am, is it 3x on just the particle release or 3x boost on everything, which means 3x speed, strength, defense, etc?

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

For some Gundams, its probably true that Trans-AM makes them faster than them. I imagine the afterimages effect left by it is to help signify the speed without the animation team having to resort to indistinguishable blurs. But yeah, Trans-AM isn't said to outstrip most matchups because of a speed increase, but because of all of bonuses it grants, as it is a very powerful function that is rarely ever seen in Gundams or other mobile suits across all of the different series.

i agree. of course trans-am is bordering on the super robot/ shounen hero manga due to the common factor of sudden power-up of existing gundam without upgrading it with another gundam. well that's what i see. In general Gundam usually doesn't have this kind of function which makes a gundam 3X stronger than it was before. Of course newtype gundams in UC are mostly based on Newtype powers and not the machine itself.

Well, Gundam has always been becoming more like Super Robot ever since Zeta

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Death Header

About the performance boosting in Trans-Am, is it 3x on just the particle release or 3x boost on everything, which means 3x speed, strength, defense, etc?

The wording in the Menclave dub says that, because of the particle release, it allows an energy output of up to three times the Gundam's specifications.

[Zantetsuken]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

i agree. of course trans-am is bordering on the super robot/ shounen hero manga due to the common factor of sudden power-up of existing gundam without upgrading it with another gundam. well that's what i see. In general Gundam usually doesn't have this kind of function which makes a gundam 3X stronger than it was before. Of course newtype gundams in UC are mostly based on Newtype powers and not the machine itself.

Well, Gundam has always been becoming more like Super Robot ever since Zeta

Seems you don't know anything about 00. TA is a function of the GN Drive. It has always been there, but was locked by Aeolia. His death removed the lock from TA.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Seems you don't know anything about 00. TA is a function of the GN Drive. It has always been there, but was locked by Aeolia. His death removed the lock from TA.

I know about 00, i've watched it. In the context of the story, it was a powerup. Regardless of whether or not a power-up existed before the current events of a story, once a character gains a new-ability or weapon that he/she did not have before to make their current powers stronger so they can win, it's a power-up.

True Trans-AM was there since the beginning before 0 Gundam but since nobody knew about it until the very convenient timing of Setsuna having a tough time with Ali and at that same time Aeolia getting shot which triggered the TRANS-AM and therefore enabling Setsuna to win, it's a power-up.

It's like a lot of Shounen manga and anime where the main character finds out he had some secret power hidden inside him but he didn't know before and wins the battle he was losing.

[Death Header]

Maybe it's about time Gundam tried something new? 00 seemed to be bordering on Super Robot material as soon as 00 Raiser and Trans Am appeared, thus it seemed to be giving a unique feel about the immeasurable odds between the protagonists and the enemy.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Death Header

Maybe it's about time Gundam tried something new? 00 seemed to be bordering on Super Robot material as soon as 00 Raiser and Trans Am appeared, thus it seemed to be giving a unique feel about the immeasurable odds between the protagonists and the enemy.

Perhaps. even when 00 raiser got trans-am burst,etc and all Setsuna still had trouble. Actually even more 0-raiser, Setsuna had trouble with regular 00 gundam and so had to upgrade to 00 raiser.

Well instead of the pilot upgrading his skills/ using own powers, the gundam is using its "superpowers". UC has Newtype abilites, Seed has seed mode, Wing had Zero System, etc

Actually i prefer a better pilot over a better machine. Otherwise the pilots would suck and the machines do all the work. Otherwise the Gundam Meisters would be the worst pilots ever if people believed their gundams did all the work for them based on TRANS-AM and the overall higher technology of CB gundams.

[Rising Dragon]

Maybe we should stop throwing around "super robot" like its something separating 00 from the rest. Super robot concepts and the like have been in Gundam since the very first series, so its not that unique to 00.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Maybe we should stop throwing around "super robot" like its something separating 00 from the rest. Super robot concepts and the like have been in Gundam since the very first series, so its not that unique to 00.

that's what i've said before. actually zeta not MSG was where there was truly super robot concepts introduced into Gundam, with the newtype powers and so.

It's just that 00 had machines with built in powers similar to shounen heroes while other gundam series in general had the pilot have a bigger role in beating stronger opponents with their own powers.

For example, if CB didn't have trans-am and there were still mass-produced GN-T machines, would they win with their original gundams? Trans-Am played the biggest role in 00, not any machine, not even 00 gundam. It was TRANS-AM that even allowed 00 gundam to work.

Past Gundam series didn't have machine powers to rely on but instead pilot powers or something that enhanced pilot powers ,most of the time at least, instead of the machine itself. Usually there was just the upgrade machine.

00 was different in that it made the original gundams stronger with a hidden ability. That's just a super robot concept that most if not all other gundam series did not have.

[Sander RX]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

In terms of numerical firepower, the S and the Ex-S have an advantage over the ZZ forms. Not to mention the ZZ has a power consumption problem that the S and Ex-S Gundam, somehow, do not seem to have (even with MORE beam weapons, MORE thrusters and thruster power, and a beam smartgun that has a GREATER output than the high mega cannon). ALICE would be a bit of an advantage, though not until after several battles (since ALICE has to "learn" and all) as well as its quasi-psycommu system and incoms.

Though the ZZ does have an edge with the bio-sensor which has various "phenomenons" with the pilot, as Judau showed and, while it has fewer beam weapons, what beam weapons it does have are quite a bit more powerful than the S and Ex-S' minus its beam smartgun. Its Full Armor form is also more beam resistant with anti-beam coating all over and at least plenty of (extra) missile launchers.

So it's hard to say, especially when you need to take the bio-sensor into account and everything. But otherwise, the S and Ex-S Gundams would win out overall, IMO.

I expected you to throw in some good 0.02$-s.I wasn't wrong.

and a beam smartgun that has a GREATER output than the high mega cannon

Not to mention the fact that it has improved information exchange between itself and the Suit,giving it improved accuracy.It also has a reflector device in the muzzle that can slightly shift the trajectory of the beam.The barrel is also movable.Add in Ex-S' Reflector Incoms and you get a freakishly powerful beam that can accurately strike you at all sorts of unexpected angles.

[kakakka]

actually zeta not MSG was where there was truly super robot concepts introduced into Gundam, with the newtype powers and so.

If it's about newtype powers, MSG started it.

Trans-Am played the biggest role in 00, not any machine, not even 00 gundam.

GN-Particle says hi.

Though I agree, Trans-AM in some way even out the battlefield most of the time.

Past Gundam series didn't have machine powers to rely on but instead pilot powers or something that enhanced pilot powers ,most of the time at least, instead of the machine itself.

Instead of machine itself? Most of the time, Gundam machines are more advance than enemy MS. It really helped the pilots alot that it made Gundams "easy to use" for beginner pilots.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by kakakka

If it's about newtype powers, MSG started it.

GN-Particle says hi.

Though I agree, Trans-AM in some way even out the battlefield most of the time.


Instead of machine itself? Most of the time, Gundam machines are more advance than enemy MS. It really helped the pilots alot that it made Gundams "easy to use" for beginner pilots.

Well newtypes of course started in MSG but Zeta was where you had true super physical manifestation of their powers through....the bio-sensor. Remember giant beam saber?

And well GN-Particles eventually got to everybody so CB couldn't rely on the anymore and so CB had to rely on TRANS-AM and eventually 00 Gundam due to everybody else getting better mobile suits.

True most of the time Gundams are more advanced....in the beginning then the enemy either advances to catch up or they have a rival machine from another same- technology advanced enemy.

And actually Gundams aren't for beginner pilots. When you think about it, alot of Gundam Pilots who got into a Gundam were at first not pilots but because they had innate skills like Newtype or they were already trained to be pilots like Setsuna and Heero, etc... They made the machine great not the machine made them great. Of course in the beginning the machine helped them out but they eventually got good enough to not rely on the strength of the machine but their own skills. Example would be Amuro who surpassed Gundam.

[kakakka]

Well newtypes of course started in MSG but Zeta was where you had true super physical manifestation of their powers through....the bio-sensor. Remember giant beam saber?

Spacial awareness/Bits is also manifestation of their powers. If I remember correctly, they could sink ships and take out large numbers of enemy MS. That is a manifestation of Newtype powers, and that is in MSG.

And well GN-Particles eventually got to everybody...

Not CB's GN-Particles though.

When you think about it, alot of Gundam Pilots who got into a Gundam were at first not pilots but because they had innate skills like Newtype or they were already trained to be pilots like Setsuna and Heero, etc...

Innate Newtype skills or not, they are still beginners.

(Of course I know about Heero and Setsuna, that's why I said "Most of the time")

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by kakakka

Spacial awareness/Bits is also manifestation of their powers. If I remember correctly, they could sink ships and take out large numbers of enemy MS. That is a manifestation of Newtype powers, and that is in MSG.


Not CB's GN-Particles though.


Innate Newtype skills or not, they are still beginners.

(Of course I know about Heero and Setsuna, that's why I said "Most of the time")

True the bits were on that MA of Lalah wasn't it? I forgot the name ,Elmeth or something? Of course that was what the hardware is, I meant by newtype superpowers was where Zeta Gundam had Kamille get angry and then creating a giant-ass beam saber from pure rage. Even the bits in MSG were weapons hardware, the rage beam saber was not hardware.

Yea, CB's GN-Particles are special but i actually prefer the GN-T because of the red.

And although they were beginners they still had newtype powers to help them. For example if a regular teenager today got into a gundam would they be able to pilot it like that, probably not? Of course nowdays just give them a game controller and they'll just fine.

[FLCL]

00 Riser (with Trans am) vs F91 Gundam

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by FLCL

00 Riser (with Trans am) vs F91 Gundam

00-Raiser. No contest there, really.

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

While "super-robot" can be termed to Mobile Suit Gundam and the likes, it is MUCH more apparent in most of the alternate universe Gundam series' than most of the UC series'.

In UC, at least MS are much more evenly balanced. (Or at least caught up to pretty quickly.) Even Newtype units don't COMPLETELY dominate the battlefield and are still capable of being fought against or even defeated by regular, albeit more skilled pilots. Basically, it tries to balance things out with more "realism" as well so it's not so one-sided.

Ones like Wing, SEED, SEED Destiny, and 00 are MUCH more about having the Gundams as super-powerhouse MS that can utterly own virtually EVERYTHING else with almost unexplainable (or minimally explained) tech and weapon power and such and with little to no difficulty unless it's against an ace enemy pilot (who is also a main character to some degree) or for some sort of plot convenience (an excuse to give them an even better MS, for instance).