2009-09-11, 11:03
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~Connoisseur~
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
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So it was directly proven they both summoned it? Because whatever it was used itself to separate them further. I didn't recall t hat other then the strong speculation.. But I could have sworn the preist said those who were THERE could see him and Isumi can due to her own powers.. unless im recalling wrong (possible)
But I really want to see this chat with Athena.. what will she say.. lies .. the truth .. both? will there be a test of Hayates loyalty to Nagi? and about 1000 other questions.. But still despite not being one of her fans.. I dont think a selfish course to regain powers taken is the best one for her.. just a feeling could be way off on that
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Last edited by SirWence; 2009-09-11 at 11:24. |
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2009-09-11, 11:48
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Link #2603 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I think Mikado's punishment was the lost of his daugther Yukyuun or something related. Maybe, a part of the punishment of Athena is the presence of Machina as a demonic bodyguard and someone that watch over her, so she does't commit the same error again?
Maybe she lost the family powers or something similar... |
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2009-09-11, 11:52
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~Connoisseur~
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
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Quote:
Athenas punishment... hell it could be her current life style as it is now the loss of things very important to her .. it is the most severe... I dont really know about the machina bit.. he seems extremly jealous though.. and if he isnt human what is he.. aside from jealous to a nearly insane point.
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2009-09-11, 12:27
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Link #2607 | |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I'll check it out tomorrow, I need to sleep now Too much of manga and anime discussion drains my energy quickly |
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2009-09-11, 13:04
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~Connoisseur~
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
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But yes she does seem to lose the most.. though I think himegami may have lost more then just a job.
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2009-09-11, 13:19
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Link #2609 |
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Rawrrr!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CH aka Chocaholic Heaven
Age: 40
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Maybe the huge skeleton ghost was something similar to the skull aura there was around Hayate's stone before Isumi purified it? Like a curse that would grow stronger as the stone's owner has it's wish fulfilled.
IIRC Mikado and/or somebody else described the stones as being wish stones: they would enable you to realise your dearest dream. But obviously at a cost. Happy-go lucky Yukkyun had a terrific luck, but her precarious health and early death might be the price she paid. But since it didn't appear so far she had a special wish I expect further revelations. For Aika we don't have any idea of her wish, but it appears she knows something about the stones and Mikado's agenda. As Hayate has a very simple deep wish: to get along with peoples (well, given the childhood he had you can understand, also as his life objective is to have a 4LDK, it fits the character perfectly). Counter-effect was presented as a magnification of his unluckiness, until the stone was purified by Isumi (how is it acting now exactly I wonder). Obviously Athena had a grand wish, most likely her magic powers or something akin. But she also paid a terrible price, as maybe she is doomed to lose everything that may be dear to her (I suppose here that the skeleton appeared to exacerbate the situation: increasing the odds of Hayate leaving her). Or maybe she cannot live outside RG without great suffering, like a fish out of water. All of this goes back to the myth of king Midas, who was mentioned several times IIRC: he was granted an extraordinary wish, but paid a terrible price and ultimately lost everything dear to him.
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2009-09-11, 13:20
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Link #2610 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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As for King Midas, wasn't he the skeleton at RG?
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2009-09-11, 13:53
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*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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2009-09-11, 14:02
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Link #2612 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Ah... I forgot about that bit. Ironically, that was the reason why I was going to post in this thread.
As for what Machina said: Quote:
All the same, I wonder why would he have said that. Machina doesn't know about Hayate, so, there's no reason he'd say something odd.
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2009-09-11, 15:15
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~Connoisseur~
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
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2009-09-11, 15:26
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Link #2614 | |
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*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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2009-09-11, 15:44
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Link #2617 |
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Ninja-In-Training
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: ...In America!
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I don't know if that inhuman line was meant to be taken literally. It could mean that Machina does not view himself as human (like how Hayate becomes a 'demon' when people he cares for are in danger) or that he simply doesn't see Hayate as human to justify his actions (and because he's probably crazy).
To add to my growing theory...I think that the whole skeleton-demon was just like the clock-tower scene I keep mentioning. Whatever caused the demon to appear, it was definitely on Athena's side and reacting to her anger, just like Wooden Masamune did to Hina. The only difference seems to be that Hina realized that she was losing control and stopped herself before she really hurt Hayate, while Athena was consumed by anger and let the demon drive them apart (she also probably would have seriously hurt Hayate if he didn't beat her). Things are definitely heating up now, and I feel that Athena may not survive the arc, possibly giving Hayate something to be sad for during the next arc. Still, she may be redeemed and who knows what might happen then. For now I just want to know how our favorite butler-in-debt is going to actually live through this encounter (and still manage to not be too scarred-for-life to ever confess to a girl again). |
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2009-09-11, 16:27
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Link #2618 | |
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Are you a lolicon? :3
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Now, now.. let's go over this one more time. While summoning magical pentagrams around her, Athena mutters that the way to the Royal Garden was closed. Behind her is Mikado. Athena says that while she slept out of the castle, the way disappeared And Mikado says that then there's no way anyone can get his/her hands on that power. Athena thinks that it's because her power was taken away by someone, and if that's possible, that's Hayate. Mikado says that it's a punishment for the three of them who were trying to get their hands on that power. It seems that the three people are Athena, Mikado and Himegami. It also seems that Athena has gotten the heaviest punishment. When was this? 10 years ago, or now in the present? The RG was once where Hakuo is now. The 'path' to it disappeared. So, it's in a different dimension, or magically concealed, and this is a fact now. If this happened in the present, then did Athena realize only now that she lost her 'powers', whatever those may be, to Hayate (only thinking that). From when was Himegami, Nagi's butler? 10 years ago Nagi was only 3 years old. She still had her mom. If these are events from 10 years ago, then Himegami, Athena, and Mikado knew each other since then. Hmm... it's probably from the present, though it could be possible as well that they did know each other since then, because of various circumstances (obviously involving their two families, and money). Recall how Hakuo is the property of the Sanzen'in & Tennousu. Also, she said that she left the RG, and slept outside. I have this scenario in mind, how she regrets what she said to Hayate, and goes searching for him, but then gets lost... hmm, but she watched him in the mirror thing, so she probably knew where he lived. Why did she leave the castle, and what was this power that Mikado spoke of? It's obviously not money, since they're all really rich already. Anyway, this 'punishment' that Mikado spoke of, is probably only a way he defined it. How exactly is it punishment for HIM, if he lost his daughter? Is the death of her daughter really punishment? I mean,... her death. Her own life. How is that punishment to him? He might miss her, because he really cared for her, but it was her own life that was lost. It doesn't really make sense to me... Well, like it was said already, those stones are the key for the RG. The various rich family's probably possessed one, or more. Or they became rich by somehow collecting them and getting the riches from the RG itself (King Midas.. gold making...). Mikado asks Athena what would she like to do from now on and Athena answers that she would regain Tennous family for her parents. Mikado asks her if that wouldn't she be painful by herself, and Athena says that that's why she received the punishment. ...? She would regain the family for her parents? .. What? Where are her parents? Were they some sort of a sacrifice, if this Wish x Ain't free thing is real? I wouldn't say punishment, but just a price to pay. Say they collected the jewels, got in the RG, and wished for riches beyond their wildest dreams. And the price, unknown to them, was the loss of what they hold the dearest. Hhmhm... We're back to the present now. Hayate and Machina confronts each other. Machina says that Athena endured painful things by herself and tried so hard. But after Hayate appeared, she makes faces to look as if nothing's wrong with her, but she looks like she is in agony. He says that so Hayate should die right here, and he attacks with imcomparable strength. Hayate says that killing human is a crime and Machina says that it doesn't matter if he's not a human. (This is the confusing part. Could it be that Machina is not a human?) And Machina kicks Hayate like mad. Painful things possibly refers to loneliness, trying to recollect the stones. Perhaps those events, where the path to the RG disappeared, really did happen 10 years ago? Perhaps now they want to return those riches to see their families again? Will it even work in reverse? Heh... She obviously still loves Hayate. She's in pain, because she knows that she will hurt him by taking back her powers, and by taking the gem as well. She predicted that he would come. Perhaps she's prepared now... sort of. But by predicting that, she probably knows that he also still cares for her. Ahhh, this will be painful... But wait! Her powers? The jewels open the path? What? .... Wait a second... Do both the jewels, and her powers open the path? If so, for example: 1. She takes them back, and Hayate returns to a similar weak state like he was before. 2. She takes the gem, disowning Nagi. Why did Mikado do that anyway? Why don't they keep the jewels together? Does Athena know that Mikado has 1 of them, and that he had 2, before handing one to Hayate. Also adding, JUST LIKE THAT HE GAVE HIM SUCH AN IMPORTANT THING... *sigh* Suddenly there are too many questions. Machina might be a robot, since there are many robots around in the manga already. Floating ones that protect the Sanzen'in estate. Hayate robot with a consciousness, nr. 8, if I'm not mistaken. ..... Machina just might be a new product~ ^_^ But how he said those words.. is something to question. Machina says that it doesn't matter if he's not human. It's irrelevant if a robot kills a human, because killing is a crime regardless of who does it. Except animals perhaps, but they would be still punished, if for example a zoo animal escaped, and killed people... Also, he doesn't mean it directly that Hayate isn't a human, because he doesn't even know who he is. He's probably really overprotective, and thinks that anyone who would do something to Athena, to make her so sad, after all she went through, regardless if that person knows that, or not.. is not human. Possible... Well, I think I went through most of the stuff now. Correct me, and state your opinions~ -Edit- Ah, after writing all this for so long, I forgot to add the Machina demon theory. It is possible, but why would a demon serve / care for a human? And if he is, it's only possible that he was summoned before Athena lost her powers, or the path to the RG. Whenever that was~ But, come on... Ma-chi-na(e) ..... yeah... heh, well, I dunno 
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2009-09-11, 16:32
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Link #2619 | |
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*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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The demon was most likely reacted to Athena's anger, and its true that Athena didn't regain her emotion until the battle ended. However, the demon can't drive them apart since it disappeared after her mind was not clouded anymore. The demon follows her emotion, not controlled her. |
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2009-09-11, 16:51
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Link #2620 | ||
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Having to deal with all that sorrow and regret sounds like punishment to me. Quote:
家 means several things: 1. House 2. Household 3. Family name 4. Lineage - Perhaps they lost their house? If we take into account the big house she's currently in, I highly doubt it. - Maybe the family name or lineage? What if Tennōsu is some sort of title? Their parents lost it and she wants to recover it for them. - Her parents are dead and she wants to revive them? During the EotW arc, she seemed to have some issues regarding parents (as in, their are people who betray you), but when Hayate said "she didn't have any parents" Athena got really angry.
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