Character discussion - Welkin

[kalbron]

Taken away:
- Spine.
- Intelligence.
- Bravery.
- Decent social skills.
- Insight into others thoughts.

Added:
- The soul of a 15 year old emo.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Sun Shine

He's not running away from anything. He is holding back his feelings by trying to be a good friend and if you are partly referring to the latest episode that is one of the ways that situation hits people, I have seen many an adult act in a similar manner in the same situation. He is still the same bug loving, master tactician he was in the game but with a wider variety of emotions and a deeper character. To sum it up is your reason for disliking his character because he is not reciprocating Alicia's feelings towards him, believing he is doing what is best for his friend?

I have to wonder if English is your first language or not. No offense but you aren't reading what we're all saying AT ALL.

Only a Freshman in HS wouldn't be able to pick up the fact that Alicia has been looking at him differently for at least 8 episodes. He graduated College for crying outloud. He's not a child anymore. His outlook on everything in the game, is believable considering his age. His outlook on everything in the anime, is believable for a HS 1st year, not a 22 year old.

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Velsy

Is it because the anime version of welkin is given a weakness ?
or is what you saying is he is inferior in *all* aspects.

People can dislike chars or so, but I dont think namecalling and such will make things any better which is kinda why I posted.

a question, The game Welkin supose to be a dauntless/heroic character who stands out alot. Its that why hes not well liked of his underdogish way/nature in the anime.

I haven't played the game, I don't even own PS3. And I dislike Welkin, cause it's retarded and emotionaly unstable, childish character. Until chapter 8 Alicia was emotionaly unstable and retarded character, then suddenly and without any apparent reason, started to act like (almost) young adult and fell in love in Welkin. Soon after that Welkin, before just socially retarded, became a fully retarded character, acting like emo kid. Also without any reason.

Valkyria, more or less a "military anime" turned into "shoujo love triangle anime" about group of middle schoolers. To make things "better" another wimpy, irritating emo character was introduced - Rammal. So far only reason of his existence is being male? tsundere emo - his characters has no other purpose.

I expect soon Faldio - only protagonist sometimes acting as an adult will turn into another emo character, also without any reason, so Welkin will act a little more mature. Most probably that change will also come without any reason.

What I'm trying to say is VC is not a military anime, with characters who act without any reason and personalities fitting for emo kids, not adults.

For a moment I was thinking about buying PS3 just to play VC, cause I really liked animation and world setting, I also like strategy games. But now I don't want to, even if most players says that game is not as retarded as anime.

[kalbron]

@ Arturro:

Just go onto YouTube and watch the cutscenes. Are some of them corny? Sure. However you can see that there's intelligence in there.

[Runty]

Why is everyone calling Welkin a spineless wimp? It's really pissing me off.

Anime-Welkin is doing what would be considered most professional as a soldier: he's trying to distance himself from others he cares for. It may seem cruel of him, but it's so he can do his job as the CO of Squad Seven. If he were to attach himself too much to others, he'd be prone to making critical mistakes in battle by worrying about them. And those kinds of mistakes could spell the squad's demise, something he can't allow to happen.

Granted, it does make him less likable, but realistically it would be considered wise of him.

[kalbron]

Because he mopes around for episodes on end, and when he finally decides on an action he takes the coward's way out?

Seriously, it doesn't matter about his actions this episode, because he's lacked a spine since the very begining of the anime. He hasn't grown one, he never had one, all he's done is adapt to his invertibrate status.

Put it this way as well, what sort of CO are you going to trust more? One that demonstrates that they are human and can grieve for their own bloody sister, or one who acts like her death was nothing important because it's a war? I'd personally say that the latter would cause unit morale to tank horribly, because if he couldn't give a rats about his own sister, why would he care about keeping YOU alive?

[Runty]

Originally Posted by kalbron

Because he mopes around for episodes on end, and when he finally decides on an action he takes the coward's way out?

Seriously, it doesn't matter about his actions this episode, because he's lacked a spine since the very begining of the anime. He hasn't grown one, he never had one, all he's done is adapt to his invertibrate status.

Put it this way as well, what sort of CO are you going to trust more? One that demonstrates that they are human and can grieve for their own bloody sister, or one who acts like her death was nothing important because it's a war? I'd personally say that the latter would cause unit morale to tank horribly, because if he couldn't give a rats about his own sister, why would he care about keeping YOU alive?

Touche.

I guess Welkin could stand to show a bit more humanity. Here's hoping that Faldio slugging him did the trick, but I remain doubtful.

[Arturro]

Originally Posted by Runty

Why is everyone calling Welkin a spineless wimp? It's really pissing me off.

Anime-Welkin is doing what would be considered most professional as a soldier: he's trying to distance himself from others he cares for. It may seem cruel of him, but it's so he can do his job as the CO of Squad Seven. If he were to attach himself too much to others, he'd be prone to making critical mistakes in battle by worrying about them. And those kinds of mistakes could spell the squad's demise, something he can't allow to happen.

Granted, it does make him less likable, but realistically it would be considered wise of him.

It could be an explanation for an adult character. Adult should speak with Alicia and explain her that althought he thinks of her as a splendidn woman, they couldn't be together, because army regulations doesn't allow relationships between superior and subordinate, especially at war. Instead he is trying to force a woman he love into arms of another man. It's not wise, it's retarded, like almost all "character development" in this anime.

@kalbron - I've seen them, looks much better than anime.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Runty

Why is everyone calling Welkin a spineless wimp? It's really pissing me off.

Anime-Welkin is doing what would be considered most professional as a soldier: he's trying to distance himself from others he cares for. It may seem cruel of him, but it's so he can do his job as the CO of Squad Seven. If he were to attach himself too much to others, he'd be prone to making critical mistakes in battle by worrying about them. And those kinds of mistakes could spell the squad's demise, something he can't allow to happen.

Granted, it does make him less likable, but realistically it would be considered wise of him.

More like we're just sick of the way he's been acting these past episodes.

I mean sure it's fine for it to happen but it's been going how long? Episode 12? And now we're in 18 and he's still moping?

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Runty

Why is everyone calling Welkin a spineless wimp? It's really pissing me off.

Anime-Welkin is doing what would be considered most professional as a soldier: he's trying to distance himself from others he cares for. It may seem cruel of him, but it's so he can do his job as the CO of Squad Seven. If he were to attach himself too much to others, he'd be prone to making critical mistakes in battle by worrying about them. And those kinds of mistakes could spell the squad's demise, something he can't allow to happen.

Granted, it does make him less likable, but realistically it would be considered wise of him.

I saw the same death and funeral scenes from the game and I don't see any problem on how Welkin reacted. What I don't like from this episode was that if he had to distance himself from others, it was way overdone and pathetic.

Speaking of the funeral, should he have said something not as cold as what he said in episode 18, say something about how she lived instead and the need to continue fighting for her from now on, this would be more inspiring and expected from your leader, NO CONTROVERSIES!

Originally Posted by kalbron

Because he mopes around for episodes on end, and when he finally decides on an action he takes the coward's way out?

Seriously, it doesn't matter about his actions this episode, because he's lacked a spine since the very begining of the anime. He hasn't grown one, he never had one, all he's done is adapt to his invertibrate status.

Put it this way as well, what sort of CO are you going to trust more? One that demonstrates that they are human and can grieve for their own bloody sister, or one who acts like her death was nothing important because it's a war? I'd personally say that the latter would cause unit morale to tank horribly, because if he couldn't give a rats about his own sister, why would he care about keeping YOU alive?

Lack of initiative and especially of good initiative! This is another major flaw given by these fools in scriptwriting for more than 6 episdes already... not to forget he's been spineless for most of the series so far.

About the choices you gave, the second pick would be... yikes! This is clearly not the way to act as a CO when you need all your people behind you. As I said, should he have shown more humanity OR these foolish writers to keep his former self here, we'd be fine.

Personally, the thing I hate most about this series is how they lowered Welkin just to make room for Faldio's rise to the top 3. Well, I don't give a rat's about Faldio as he should have been given the role of the overjealous friend having no hope of stealing the spotlight and prone to a possible betrayal, period! Where is Faldio's discussion thread? I shall speak my mind over there about his character.

[Sun Shine]

Originally Posted by kalbron

Taken away:
- Spine. Matter of opinion.
- Intelligence. Still masterminded a fair few victories.
- Bravery. In what way? Refusing to make the choice between loads of innocents getting killed and not? Or are you on about his feelings in which he's not expressing them to Alicia? If the latter I have said in previous posts why this may be the case.
- Decent social skills. His social skills are hardly decent in the game and the anime reflects this although there is little porblem with how it is portrayed.
- Insight into others thoughts.Mind reader lol, or do you mean he is lacking in empathy? I disagree, the decisions he makes is always for the best of the squad apart from during the last episode which is for obvious reasons.

Added:
- The soul of a 15 year old emo. Perhaps an emo...at times but not a 15yo.

Originally Posted by justinstrife

I have to wonder if English is your first language or not. No offense but you aren't reading what we're all saying AT ALL.

Only a Freshman in HS wouldn't be able to pick up the fact that Alicia has been looking at him differently for at least 8 episodes. He graduated College for crying outloud. He's not a child anymore. His outlook on everything in the game, is believable considering his age. His outlook on everything in the anime, is believable for a HS 1st year, not a 22 year old.

Rather petty insult that I would expect off a teenager or child when they have a difference of opinion in a discussion not a 29 year old. It is actually really funny though because I am in fact an English Language student. Although I have a different view than most people on this subject I try to take on their view and understand why they feel the way they do, it does not mean my view will change. It seems as I still have a difference of opinion I must not be reading what other people have said (although I have not read anything before page 5).

He has picked up that Alicia has been looking at him differently (however I doubt he picked up that Alicia actually liked him until she told him straight) but because of the situation with Faldio and the military heirachy to an extent, Welkin does not confront the problem. I believe he has a similar outlook in the both the game and the anime but like Klabron said the anime character is more emotional. This does not make him like a high school student. I have seen many adults act in different ways and with the situation Welkin is under I am surprised he has not broke sooner. Graduating university/college does not make relationships and people easier to understand however it does give people more experiences to base things on. Welkin could have easily interpretated a connection between Faldio and Alicia.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Sun Shine

(although I have not read anything before page 5).

Originally Posted by Sun Shine

He has picked up that Alicia has been looking at him differently (however I doubt he picked up that Alicia actually liked him until she told him straight) but because of the situation with Faldio and the military heirachy to an extent, Welkin does not confront the problem. I believe he has a similar outlook in the both the game and the anime but like Klabron said the anime character is more emotional. This does not make him like a high school student. I have seen many adults act in different ways and with the situation Welkin is under I am surprised he has not broke sooner. Graduating university/college does not make relationships and people easier to understand however it does give people more experiences to base things on. Welkin could have easily interpretated a connection between Faldio and Alicia.

...I must mention that it was obvious to both of them what was going on in the game without either of them actually bringing it up aloud.

Spoiler for Game, near end:

In fact, until the, I think it was third to last chapter, it was not mentioned aloud... then Welkin asks her out and proposes in the same sentence

You kind of need to be able to read subtext if you're going to do that. As you argue that Anime!Welkin doesn't read subtext... for someone that's supposed to spot things that no one else does and think outside the box, that's sort of damning.

Anyone who argues that Anime!Welkin is more emotional [full stop], hasn't seen the scenes following Isara's death in the game recently. Or really, anytime the man mentions her afterward. If you're arguing that his emotional maturity has changed, however...

Mainly I think the changes to Welkin's character are to push him into the background so that Super!Anime!Faldio can take the spotlight... since he seems to be the darling of the animation studio.

Sun Shine, are you an English as a Second Language student, or are you a native English speaker that happened to major in English Language? (Either way, please don't ever say 'interpretated' again. Please. )

[TCman]

Poor Isara, only 16 years old, dying at such a young age.

As for Welkin, in my opinion, as a normal person you should mourn for a loved one like a sister who died in battle; although Isara and Welkin are not siblings by blood; it really feels poignant, since Isara was so devoted to Welkin, while Welkin is reacting so cold and ask the others to forget her. It feels like that Isara has died for nothing because she will be forgotten if Welkin's wish is granted. There's time to mourn for someone you loved, even in time of wars.

Also I think the reaction of Welkin only divide the squad/people (it's already happening), so it's not in the best interest of the squad and war. Furthermore, a leader who does not care about their underlings is not a good leader, because (in return) his underlings won't have any respect/reverence for him and they surely won't fight for 100%.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Sun Shine

Rather petty insult that I would expect off a teenager or child when they have a difference of opinion in a discussion not a 29 year old. It is actually really funny though because I am in fact an English Language student. Although I have a different view than most people on this subject I try to take on their view and understand why they feel the way they do, it does not mean my view will change. It seems as I still have a difference of opinion I must not be reading what other people have said (although I have not read anything before page 5).

He has picked up that Alicia has been looking at him differently (however I doubt he picked up that Alicia actually liked him until she told him straight) but because of the situation with Faldio and the military heirachy to an extent, Welkin does not confront the problem. I believe he has a similar outlook in the both the game and the anime but like Klabron said the anime character is more emotional. This does not make him like a high school student. I have seen many adults act in different ways and with the situation Welkin is under I am surprised he has not broke sooner. Graduating university/college does not make relationships and people easier to understand however it does give people more experiences to base things on. Welkin could have easily interpretated a connection between Faldio and Alicia.

I'm sorry but when you completely disregard what everyone else is saying, completely disregarding their arguments, and fabricate what you think they're saying, I have to question it. Practically everyone here has been straightforward in their arguments and there isn't room for 'interpretation' as you put it. If you're going to argue points, please take the time to read what we're typing. Then, once you understand our arguments, then make your counter-points. Don't make stuff up out of thin air to argue against.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Before this gets off-hand here, i think everyone should take a step back for a second (including myself). I read these comments on Random Curiosity... and I must say I'm stunned because I never thought of this.

Originally Posted by Excalibaa1!

you know, this shity male lead thing pisses me off too, but really its just become a staple of 90% of the anime out there, to have some de-mascularized male lead who gets bossed around by the women and is just a big pussy, it seems that writers of anime do this to relate to their viewers…japanese males of the same personality… a LOT of japanese guys act like little pussies, all passive aggressive and shit, there are some regular men out there that dont act like this for sure but about 80 percent of guys act like this, and their shows reflect this, thats why we get writters making crappy male leads, its reflecting the society they live in.

Originally Posted by Megas

I personally hate guys like Faldio. All idiots like him are good for is pointing out the obvious & dying glorious OR stupid deaths. He’s a one-dimentional character. You have to be crazy if you think he’ll make a good lead. On the other hand, Welkin has a brain & he acts like most of the Japanese otaku community. He may be a wuss, but he’s a complete 3D character. There’s no way you can compare them. But I tell you one thing, after receiving Faldio’s punch, I would have got up & decked him clear across the room. That’s the difference between me & Welkin. Fools that act like they know everything only die a fool’s death.

You folks who are dumping on Welkin, obviously have no idea how Japanese men are. I had to suffer through years of listening to my father’s old war stories (WWII). For most of them, they don’t develop anything close to a backbone until they go through something horrific or reach an age where they start to be respected by others. The same is true today. Gladly, I spent the majority of my years in the States where you would be eaten alive w/o a backbone so it was forced on me at a very early age.

Excalibaa1! more than hit the nail on the head. I hate all the weak-ass male lead BS too. But even I would tire of seeing super-men like Dante, Kazuma, Lelouch, Naoki, Age, & Kei if they were commonplace. I wish the MEN:wimps ratio was 50/50 but sadly it is 10/90. However, that’s what make the super-men special & the wimps just a drop in the bucket.

What do you think? Does this might give us an explanation on why Welkin might be portrayed this way in the anime to some extent? We have to remember that since video games all aim a bigger market, things might be done in a way to satisify a more worldwide audience while anime usually aim local markets first.

BTW, are there people here familiar enough with Japan to confirm what these two are writing about Japanese men?

[justinstrife]

Makes sense in a sick and twisted way. I've never liked weak-kneed wimps though. I can't respect them, and I can't relate to them in anyway. Guess it's due to the country I live in, and the fact that us boys and men push the envelope to find out who and what we are. Strength is respected here. And I wouldn't have it any other way to be honest with you.



If it doesn't have a back-bone or get the adrenaline going, I'm not interested.

[KiraYamatoFan]

I was thinking of a response with more insight, gents.

[kalbron]

Well I thought the cultural aspect was already an accepted part? I mean that is the basis for most of the shoujo ideas after all - the whole "rape is love" foolishness that goes on there. If it wasn't at least somewhat socially acceptable thought over in Japan it wouldn't sell as well.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

I was thinking of a response with more insight, gents.

Sorry. Still venting about my hate on these type of characters and I got carried away.

We have quite a few Japanese and Chinese students come to my work at one of the local airports who are training to fly before returning to their home countries, and though they are extremely respectful and well-mannered, I have noticed that every single one of them has been very reserved and soft-spoken. Though it's a welcome change from many self-centered people that were born here, it would be nice to see some fire from them.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by kalbron

Well I thought the cultural aspect was already an accepted part? I mean that is the basis for most of the shoujo ideas after all - the whole "rape is love" foolishness that goes on there. If it wasn't at least somewhat socially acceptable thought over in Japan it wouldn't sell as well.

Its not just shoujo. Western love novels have a lot of that too. Guy forces his way and she loves it in the end... It seems to be not just Japanese fantasy but woman fantasy in general. It doesnt mean they would enjoy it in real life though. Just like anime loli lover would not be into pedophilia or think positively about it in real life.

And I do not think it is realistic to say that wimp Welkin is supposed to represent majority of audience - there are various people in there us like in here, and while a lot seem suppressed, brown-nosing at office, they can be pretty boastful after a few drinks of beer or other alcohol drink. I don't think majority of them are wimps, on the contrary a lot of them have very high opinion about themselves and as anime tries to feed the popular fantasies it does not make much sense into creating wimps unless it is harem wimps (as then being a wimp is not a bad thing a all). They are suppressed because of sometimes weird to us etiquette but not really backbone less as such. And not emos like Welkin.

Why do you think sch badasses like Lelouch, Kazuma etc. are always popular while such wimps like Shinji are not?

Its because the realization of the inner fantasy. Well, you can say that Welkin is reality aimed character, but the problem is that neither he nor this anime in general have enough depth to come as shocking material to make it look realistic, thus loosing the purpose of a reality. Characters are too plain and one-dimensional to make them realistic (its not Evangelion, where characters were screwed up as hell, but shockingly still remained realistic due to their depth). They are (Japanese) suppressed in reality but it doest mean the are emos like Welkin, so I do not think that Welkin really can count as an example of what Japanese men are.