2010-03-07, 16:10 | Link #6443 | |
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EDIT: An additional note to point out is that in Japan, because there are virtually no guns as I explained, police forces themselves hardly use guns and are instead trained in hand to hand combat, mainly Judo. Last edited by Tsuyoshi; 2010-03-07 at 16:21. |
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2010-03-07, 16:30 | Link #6444 | |
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I'm sure you're right that gun control can help curb violence in some cases. But really, the US government hasn't given me much reason to believe they're as trustworthy as they claim. Nor do I trust any government really. You can call me paranoid, but I'll point you to a world history textbook if you do |
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2010-03-07, 16:52 | Link #6445 | |
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Justice systems change from one coutry to another, and as far as I'm aware, it's not wholly reliable in the US, and please don't get me started on Italy. That still doesn't mean normal citizens should be allowed to carry weapons. As I said, they are tools for killing, tools for war. That is a far cry from self-defence. By all means, people should be allowed to protect themselves, but there are other ways to achieve that apart from guns. In times of peace, it isn't right or fair that a certain someone be given the power to take another's life. The biggest reason people feel compelled to carry guns in the US is because of how easy it is to procure them there. More often than not, these weapons fall into the hands of people who don't buy guns for the sake of self-defense. If guns were harder to procure, and the police did what is morally correct and do what they can to prevent crime and protect the citizens rather than just act as federal cleaners, I'm quite certain many people would have far less reason to be distrustful. |
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2010-03-07, 17:41 | Link #6446 | |
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There is also the argument, of course, that disarming citizens removes their final recourse against armed tyranny. I personally find that argument very compelling. Even if it were possible to never worry about that, the police can never prevent crime perfectly. I don't personally know any officer who wants anything but to prevent crime in total, but the grim reality is that they are, primarily, a reactive force--enforcement, not prevention. We can and should try to shift that as much as possible, but thus far society has yet to find a solution. Saying that guns "More often than not, these weapons fall into the hands of people who don't buy guns for the sake of self-defense" is simply incorrect. Studying the numbers on gun ownership, illegal gun ownership, and the sources of illegally procured guns sheds light on that.
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2010-03-07, 19:30 | Link #6448 | ||
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I'd also question how different cultures perceive this definition, but going into that will take awhile and be very incomplete. The princess is only 8 yrs old also, and is likely to have been very protected throughout her life so far. It wouldn't have taken much to cause her to cry, for one, IMHO, esp. with the attitudes of some of the JP boys whom I had seen recently. They could give many punk kids in the U.S. a run for their money in a head-to-head "assh*le" competition - except without the learned fear already in the U.S. kids from wondering if their target would go postal in return. It looks like the royal household is backtracking on the news as well. Japanese princess not bullied: official Quote:
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2010-03-07, 22:31 | Link #6450 |
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Iraq holds landmark vote, attacks kill 38
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100307/..._iraq_election The results have not been announced, but I am watching this. It's severely disappointing that the choices seem to be between specifically religious or secular parties. The party system at work in yet another country. *sigh* I want to see some substantiation regarding the claim of Kurdish people being missing from voting rolls, as well. That is a highly important claim, and either possibility is believable. Despite the deaths here and before, violence in Iraq is better than it was under Saddam. Converting to a government run by the people will take time to do right, but I'm glad they have the chance now. If owning a rifle is justifiable, there is no reason to prohibit an M16--rather, an AR-15 as the semi-automatic version is called in the civilian world. It is functionally the same as any other magazine fed, semi-automatic rifle you'd find in the safe of a hunter.
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2010-03-07, 23:07 | Link #6451 | ||
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In the 21st century, US would have probably done something with all that billions spent and the lives of the soldiers lost : bridging a peace and alliance in the Mideast, starting with Iraq-Kuwait relations. Quote:
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2010-03-08, 02:39 | Link #6452 | |||
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2010-03-08, 04:37 | Link #6453 | ||||
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But regarding the statement of it being more dangerous... More dangerous to whom? The ability of a firearm to equalize force (including, as you mentioned, by being less personal) is exactly what makes it useful as a defensive weapon. In a world with people wielding disparate force, the strong rule over the weak. That is how the world worked for the history of mankind, gradually changing as arms advanced to the point where the weak could wield force on a similar level. Regardless of training, those who are weaker or have less will to do harm than an attacker are at a severe disadvantage... unless they are armed. To say that the availability of arms is a greater threat to the innocent is to suggest that those with the will to do harm would not do so without the availability of arms. History is fair proof that there will still be people harming others, arms or not. To paraphrase Archie Bunker, would you prefer they be pushed outta windows? Quote:
Tyranny can come from the state, and has quite often throughout history. Criminals have been inflicting violence since before arms existed, and taking their guns away won't stop that. Quote:
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Why do people own firearms? My grandfather keeps a firearm under the bed he spends the vast majority of his time in because age and illness has robbed from him his ability to defend himself otherwise. I am better able to defend myself with my hands and feet than the vast majority of the population, but carry a pistol on my belt because it is simply a better way to defend myself and others, should the need arise. Why take unnecessary chances when I have the tools available? My pistol has never shot anyone (unless a Hungarian police officer that might have carried it used it in the line of duty decades ago), and it never will unless I or some one else near me is in grave danger.
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2010-03-08, 09:19 | Link #6454 |
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When are people going to realize the simple truth that in America, strict gun laws, will NOT stop criminals from getting guns. It's a total cliche' to say this and it will make me sound like some nut from the NRA but seriously it's true: Strict gun laws won't take guns out of criminals hands but they WILL take away the citizens ability to protect themselves from criminals.
Cops can't be there instantly, most of the time they show up in time to clean up the bodies and that's it. An individual would have to be a complete and total fool to put the safety of there selves and family into the hands of someone who tells them specifically "I WON"T BE THERE IN TIME". Try and take my ability to protect myself away ....and you leave me no recourse but to protect myself. That's how most gun owners will feel if you try to take their guns away. So good luck with that.
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2010-03-08, 09:39 | Link #6455 | ||||||
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1. You didn't quote wikipedia 2. You had studies on illegal ownership in addition to legal ownership. No smart or sane criminal (unless we're talking about Yagami Light kind of smart ) is going to buy a gun legally. It would make them easy to be tracked down by the police if they committed a crime with said guns. I'm not saying people are not justified to carry guns. When so many normal citizens carry them for the wrong reasons, it is no surprise there are those people, like your grandfather, who can only feel safe if they also have adequate weapons. But as I said, the fact that there are so many people who use guns to cause harm is the reason people carry guns to defend themselves in the first place. If gun control was much more strict, people wouldn't feel compelled to carry weapons of war to feel safe. |
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2010-03-08, 09:57 | Link #6456 |
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America isn't Japan (as much as I sometimes wish it was) it is a huge area of mostly (still) untamed wilderness. How do you suppose you are going to mirror a situation like the one you describe in Japan in the U.S.A.? Even if you made guns 100% illegal in our borders it would take a massive effort to just get the legal guns from legal citizens. The black market gun traders would have way to easy a time hiding weapons all over the country. Not to mention that many people in an effort to be anti-government (which we all know is a long standing tradition in america, like it or not) would simply construct their own arms simply for symbolic purposes if for no other reason.
It's really a much more complex issue than simply saying guns are violent and I think you should make stricter laws against them. Guns in America are a symbol as much as they are a tool. You need to realize that if you want to talk about the issue of America and Guns.
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2010-03-08, 10:15 | Link #6457 | |
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For example, like I said in Japan, citizens are subject to frequent gun inspections. If someone illegally sold their gun, tracking it down would be simple if the number of guns flowing into and within the country was limited. The fact is that in the US, such inspections are virtually inexistent. And just because guns are an american symbol doesn't mean it's a right for people to have them. |
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2010-03-08, 10:22 | Link #6458 | |
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2010-03-08, 10:28 | Link #6459 | |
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2010-03-08, 10:47 | Link #6460 | |
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