2011-12-17, 18:22 | Link #26441 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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My hope is that, if Ryuukishi chose this way, he had at least respected this basic principle. Also this would be the only way to explain why in EP6 "dead" people cannot help. The case of Kanon and Shannon still remains a bold trickery. There are two possibilities here. if "Shannon" and "Kanon" are two characters in the game portrayed by the same player, then by logic for what concerns the game they are two distinct persons, but in that case none of the tricks used could be considered legit. Therefore it must be that even inside the game there is only one character "Yasu" (who by the way is the culprit) that has many identities. Basically this means that even with this "game" theory you still have the "trick" of the red claiming the death of an identity and not an actual character.
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2011-12-17, 18:58 | Link #26442 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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2011-12-17, 19:13 | Link #26443 |
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Indeed, and one need only look at LyricalAura's list of points of how useful fake-death would be for everyone, as well as Beatrice-as-writer, and yet apparently none of those plot points were used. If they had been, it would be a better hint about the... flexibility... of the red. But they wound up not really being utilized for much of anything important or useful, like Shkanon.
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2011-12-17, 19:26 | Link #26444 |
Artist
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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Thinking the game theory thing makes arc 8 quite interesting seeing as there are two gamemaster.
How would that work on a tabletop rpg, just to know? And is Ryuukishi ever going to release "Beatrice's gameboard - the game" ? |
2011-12-17, 19:47 | Link #26445 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Awful idea, generally speaking.
Well to be honest, multiple Game Masters are the norm wherever you have a lot of players and where you can or, by the rules of the game, you need to make separate sessions. This is usually done in "Play by forum" or "Play by IRC/chat" RPG. Even then, one head Game Master and the other as helpers is probably the best way. And even if there isn't a pyramidal structure, the Game Masters should strickly cooperate and define the plot clearly before each session. If you don't, well... expect logic errors to appear everywhere. I have no idea how the logic error issue works in Umineko when you have two Game Masters. Who of the two will have to pay the toll for it?
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2011-12-17, 21:08 | Link #26446 | ||
The True Culprit
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Maybe I'll post a link when it's done or something, but that might not be for a while.
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2011-12-17, 23:41 | Link #26447 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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It's actually is a cool ideas... It might be out of place, but eh, could I ask if you;re really Italian half Japanese and related somehow to Ryukishi? (I remember you said something along the line before) Or maybe I'm just overtly naive. |
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2011-12-18, 03:04 | Link #26448 |
The True Culprit
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I don't remember saying I was Italian, but I do have Japanese in me. I'm not all that closely associated with Ryukishi. We like, spoke a couple times at this big doujin writer's convention in like 2006, and we shared some ideas and kind of hit it off, but we tapered off after a few emails, and aside from an email back in 2009 (and a more recent one, see below), we haven't talked sense.
I wouldn't consider us really close, or act like I have an 'insider connection' or anything. Though it might please people to know that I'm not as angry with him anymore. We exchanged emails again like a week ago, and I've gotten an apology for some things, got some details on other things that made me feel like there was a bit of a misunderstanding, etc. Nothing that would be useful or relevant to any of you guys, and it's sort of on the personal side, so no email copypastas for you.
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2011-12-18, 03:18 | Link #26449 |
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I'm starting to think about a few things with respect to the conversation that dominated the last, like, ten pages.
Now I'm starting to think it's not even relevant. Sorry, uh, me and everyone else. More on this when I'm not redumbculous.
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Last edited by Renall; 2011-12-18 at 03:28. |
2011-12-18, 03:32 | Link #26450 |
The True Culprit
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To add on to Renall's comment, he and I talked about a potentially REVOLUTIONARY idea that might make Umineko awesome and perfect and radical again, but it falls pretty damn hard in the Wild Mass Guessing territory. We'll post it when we make it more coherent and eloquent to read, because fuck dumping a big ass AIM chatlog.
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2011-12-18, 03:45 | Link #26452 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...93#post3489693 the image I posted includes screens that are still in the code but where hidden in the final version.
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2011-12-18, 03:56 | Link #26454 |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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My guess is that he either made a late choice to be more ambiguous, or that he tried to make it less Eva's diary in particular and more a general recount of the events.
In any case I think the George slide was him having a confrontation with his mother over Shannon. |
2011-12-18, 03:57 | Link #26455 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Or also why he hid those but didn't remove them. We aren't just talking about lines in a code. The bmp images are still there occupying precious space for nothing.
As I said I didn't do any screenshots to create that slideshow image. The one with Kyrie and the gun for example is arc\bmp\background\efe\e8.bmp Did the guys at 07expansion underestimated the fanbase and its ability to extract the files (even knowing that witch hunt needs to do that to create the patches) or were they counting on that?
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2011-12-18, 04:00 | Link #26456 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Yesterday!
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@ Jan/Aura thanks for the answers.
I've been thinking that someone's diary shouldn't be "red truth". Red truth isn't supposed to exist in the human world, so that seems to imply "Rokkenjima prime disaster/Ange's future" is another tale, perhaps a possibility that follows a logic akin to Lion's world (both introduced as a low probability by Bernkastel). |
2011-12-18, 04:01 | Link #26457 | |
The True Culprit
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I can't speak universally, but in video game tradition, for instance, information and content is dummied out instead of being deleted because it could cause defragmentation, and it was only ever overwritten to make room for something new on a cartridge or disc. Digital Creative Communities in the West and East both, video-game related or otherwise, generally take to the tradition of leaving stuff physically present unused in a product to encourage people who uncover "easter eggs" in something's code or files. Maybe Ryukishi decided to do the same thing here, as a "Why not?" sort of thing.
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2011-12-18, 04:02 | Link #26458 |
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I think it's laziness. Ryukishi never removes anything, and he puts in things that he never used. I've ranted about this before, but a huge part of the bloat of the DVD footprint (it started at like 800 MB and by ep8 is 3 GB) is because of unoptimized and unutilized portraits.
Every incarnation of Beatrice, for example (there's four of those) has every single portrait of every single expression that the original one had. I don't think he intended to leave certain expressions (like hair-down dress Beato's troll faces) as something for people to find and speculate on. I think he just made all of them by swapping out some heads and whatnot in Photoshop (or whatever he uses), decided which ones he was going to use for the script, and then left all the unused ones there because... I dunno, he might come back and use them in a later episode? Or just because? He's kinda lazy on that front, I think.
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2011-12-18, 04:03 | Link #26459 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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I'm too tired to get into this right now but there's the idea that the whole of it indeed a tale anyway (to us) and that the author theory is to make us think of them as tales in our means of solving, judging and understanding them and the author and his intents rather then making the tales inherently "fake" (next to a more real reality that still remains a tale to us). A Rokkenjima Prime ends up just being a sort of basic backstory that ends where the tales begins (and as arc 7 showed even that could be altered). Last edited by UsagiTenpura; 2011-12-18 at 04:21. |
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