[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Digdri]

Originally Posted by Oliver

The eagle Nanjo refers to is the symbol on the flag of RSI and is the symbol of modern Italian neo-nazism, so yeah.

The double headed eagle he mentions and immediately retracts is the symbol of Russian Empire (and modern Russia) and would be present if the gold had a Russian source - which it could, as I have detailed a long time ago, but that would mean no Italian Beatrice.

Ok had no idea that its even this stuff was made so ambiguous in the story. Its only that when everybody was talking about Nazi gold and stuff this general form of the Reichsadler came to mind which eerily isn't so far of from the one-winged eagle silhouette if cut in half.

But after all I have no idea what signs Italy or the Germans would have put on their gold bars ... how could I?

Still some sick kind of hidden subtext if this really was intentional. I wouldn't put it past him to know what he was doing there.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Digdri

Ok had no idea that its even this stuff was made so ambiguous in the story. Its only that when everybody was talking about Nazi gold and stuff this general form of the Reichsadler came to mind which eerily isn't so far of from the one-winged eagle silhouette if cut in half.

But after all I have no idea what signs Italy or the Germans would have put on their gold bars ... how could I?

Still some sick kind of hidden subtext if this really was intentional. I wouldn't put it past him to know what he was doing there.

Its a bit more like the austrian eagle without the tools imho, but yeah they do share similarities.

[DgBarca]

Spoiler for EP7:

Did Bern really said something like "Ho I am not the true Gm you know" ? If it's true, then it's pretty obvious...

Spoiler for EP1:

Is there any doubt about it ?

Spoiler for Strange:

It really feels strange, to know that we are the GM...well, more the Japanese community and not really us, I must say...

[ArcticHelm]

In some sense he uses Beatrice & her endless magic as an interesting literary device to start a universe through Umineko. We are presented with a bad-everyone-dies-ending and slowly given tools to think about what's in an unopenable cat-box. If you have love for the story it gives limitless possibilies for the setting and characters. However, if this isn't the case readers might just wait around when it's going to end with its figurative guts dragged out. I think this is why he dislikes people who just stop reading or have no love for the story. Perhaps maybe it'd be fair to say the real mystery in the story seems to be whether you find out this hidden aspect or if you drag it around in your own death fantasy. >.>a Some people might think this is silly or say "what's the point?" but at least I think I personally have gotten a lot out of the story thinking like this. D:

I'm curious what will happen with EP8. ` ~`)

[LuckySovietStar]

Another more serious question: Wasn't there a extra TIPS text lately which had some talk about how Kinzo may have gotten the gold? Don't remember that well how it played out. How does this fit this submarine theory at all?

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/TIPS/A...Interview_Tape
This. Biggest contradiction: in this tips (and EP1 too?) gold is from USA, not from Italy. Kinzo always was portrayed as Eagleland fanboy...

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

Meh I think it's not a fair answer. To begin with we didn't learn about Quadrillion until ep 2. Meaning Ryukishi made his fans waste 6 months trying to solve something they couldn't solve, that's a first very bad point to me.

I'm pretty sure the epitaph wasn't solvable until episode 3. You can check with people on that, but with how hard Ryukishi says the riddle is supposed to be (there needing to be a miracle to solve it) I don't think we were able to solve it until we got those hints. That's where we learn "the river" isn't really a river for example.

R:You'd have to solve the epitaph in order to find the Golden Land. Moreover, you need to examine the enormous amount of hints relating to the epitaph. The most important point is that the Golden Land must exist. But this is refutable, since you can't really believe the things that occurred in EP3 (smile). Up to EP2, there were many comments about how the epitaph was too difficult to solve, so this time I've given the players some hints.

[Klashikari]

This has no value whatsoever: this is merely speculations from a witch hunter (probably one of Ootsuki's group), so it has no more value or contradicting weight against what we learn from Kinzo.
There is no evidence that neither is correct so heh.

[UsagiTenpura]

That's sorta my point, Qilian to me doesn't follow those hints.
Oh and to go along with hints, Ryukishi said that "those who could solve the epitaph would know how the rest of arc 5-6 occured".
So, what does Qilian tells you about arc 5 and 6?

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

That's sorta my point, Qilian to me doesn't follow those hints.

Train tracks as the river?

The anagrams?

LordU for the playful part of the riddle?

I rest my case...

Oh and to go along with hints, Ryukishi said that "those who could solve the epitaph would know how the rest of arc 5-6 occured".
So, what does Qilian tells you about arc 5 and 6?

Well I dunno. Ryukishi says a lot of things. Not all of them mean anything. It might be that you need to look at something extra with your solution figure that out.

[UsagiTenpura]

Yeah explain to me then how "quadrillion" is a place to offer sacrifices.
You're right, Ryukishi says a lot of things, apparently they don't necessarily mean much.
Just like his epitaph.

Edit: Not long ago he said that nearly every word Zepar and Furfur said was a form of hint to the epitaph. I really don't see the relation between Zepar/Furfur and Qilian theory.

[Judoh]

Where does the epitaph say the key has to be a place? I thought it was clear that we just need a 13 or 11 letter word to sacrifice 6 letters from.

[UsagiTenpura]

Eva-Beatrice says so before solving the epitaph.
I just did arc 3 not long ago, it's really hard to connect Eva's reasoning with the Qilian theory.

Edit : Qilian is a place, you probably didn't mean the key but the place to use it on.
In fact it feels like it also betrays Rosa's hints from arc 5 heh.

[DgBarca]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

Eva-Beatrice says so before solving the epitaph.
I just did arc 3 not long ago, it's really hard to connect Eva's reasoning with the Qilian theory.

Edit : Qilian is a place, you probably didn't mean the key but the place to use it on.
In fact it feels like it also betrays Rosa's hints from arc 5 heh.

Ho, Rosa's hints are from EP3...But the facts that they got explained in-depth make me think of some VERY important hint...

[Judoh]

I think Qilan follows hints about Kinzo's hometown not being in Odawara rather than the part about a place to offer sacrifices. So it probably uses different hints than you're looking at, but someone else might have a better answer for what you're asking than I do.

There are other theories besides Qilan though. It's just the most popular one. I'd ask Jan-poo or somebody about some of the other epitaph theories.

[Renall]

Let's say the story is wrong, or at least has a lot of details very wrong that Kinzo himself wouldn't get wrong. To what end is Bernkastel using this semi-erroneous flashback, then? If the goal were to "present the answer," then obviously she wouldn't want to get things wrong. It seems like there's a lot of things being cobbled together here that could be true, or rather, could be plausible in aggregate. Is the goal to make us believe it? Or doubt it? Why? If it's to make some other conclusion easier to swallow, how does it do that? Knowing where Kinzo got his gold doesn't seem to really change much elsewhere in the story... unless it's more subtle than that somehow.

[Oliver]

How Kinzo got the gold changes nothing but it can radically alter the interpretation of Kinzo's character. The solution presented by Bernkastel relies on the existence of Beatrice-1, presents Beatrice-2 as her daughter from Kinzo and implies Kinzo may have had an incestuous relationship with his daughter. Which, if my memory of things I have yet to get to serves me right, was part of the conclusion Bernkastel uttered regarding the entire family. Kinzo appears very humane, but at the same time... more insane than he has to be.

But he could have been very different.

EDIT: Unrelated. Will seems to pay attention a lot to how people sat at the dinner table. I wonder, if he's just out to ensure that the testimony he is getting comes from a world where Leon doesn't exist (which changes the seating order) or something else entirely.

EDIT EDIT: I've been counting.

Maria's story about meeting Beatrice is only possible if Leon doesn't exist, or Jessica is not present. Otherwise, Maria's seat would not be next to Rosa.

On the other hand, Jessica's story about having a prank played on her is quite ambiguous. If the seating order is "left to right each row in order of rank" means "left to right looking from Kinzo's position" then Ange's empty seat can be to Jessica's right only if Leon does exist. If the left to right is looking from the ceiling with Kinzo's seat oriented at the top, it also depends on Leon not existing.

I am not sure which left and right are meant. Couldn't they bloody sit clockwise? ...

[ArcticHelm]

Perhaps we could picture Bern as having goals which require some extreme trolling?

If you look at it from a point of view of trying to help Ange, it's unlikely without the roller coaster it has been since episode 3-4 that Ange would ever come at an answer that she could be happy with. That seems to require an entirely different sort of miracle which would never be found in a logic match or probable scenario. Ange was always good at finding some probable, yet cruel, truth. However Ange never would have found one that Maria, Battler or Beatrice would have hoped would be gained from their magic if she stopped thinking.

This sort of answer has been dangled in our face for a while now I think; it can't really just be given out or it loses its meaning.

[MetalGearFlaccid]

This may seem out of nowhere, but I love how R07 "canonized" the image song "Golden Nocturne."

In fact, perhaps integrating a doujin track into his game is part of his hint that this is an amalgamation of fan creations?

[Renall]

Originally Posted by ArcticHelm

Perhaps we could picture Bern as having goals which require some extreme trolling?

If you look at it from a point of view of trying to help Ange, it's unlikely without the roller coaster it has been since episode 3-4 that Ange would ever come at an answer that she could be happy with. That seems to require an entirely different sort of miracle which would never be found in a logic match or probable scenario. Ange was always good at finding some probable, yet cruel, truth. However Ange never would have found one that Maria, Battler or Beatrice would have hoped would be gained from their magic if she stopped thinking.

This sort of answer has been dangled in our face for a while now I think; it can't really just be given out or it loses its meaning.

I don't think Bern likes Ange very much, given ep4, the Tanbata TIP, and the Tea Party...

[Sentou]

The ace detective, Sentou, appears yet again!

I don't know what to think of this episode. Is it all false? Is that why Battler had a huge smile at the end? I believe in Eva Ushiromiya, I do, so I don't quite think that her involvement is false, but I'm a bit discomforted by other things as well.

The first being Kinzo and his supposedly incestuous relation to Beato 2.0. That's fine and all, but it shows that the man is depraved. (As if this is anything new!) But more to the point, it shows that the man would be fine with sleeping with a member of his own family. I hate to harp on Jessica, but that little fact worries me.

The other thing that troubles me is how Lambdadelta makes it a POINT that she doesn't honor run of the mill wishes, that she won't give her blessings to people with simple motives, and yet Kyrie in this episode really is quite a simple villain. Her methods are flashy, but she is about as paper thin as you can get.