Angel Beats! - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[maplehurry]

Er.. SSS = Shinda Sekai Sensen (死んだ 世界 戦線)

Google translate : Dead World Battlefront.

"The Shinda Sekai Sensen (死んだ世界戦線, lit. Afterlife War Front, abbr. SSS) is an organization composed of students from across the "afterlife school". Their main purpose is to provoke the presence of God in a variety of ways, including violent means, which is usually targeted at the Student Council President, who they assumed to work under God. This stems from the ideals of Yuri, current leader and founding member of the organization, that God is the one responsible for the sufferings they experienced in the living world and they wish to exact revenge for it."

http://angelbeats.wikia.com/wiki/Shinda_Sekai_Sensen

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Er.. SSS = Shinda Sekai Sensen (死んだ 世界 戦線)

I think monir meant the world in which the SSS operates rather than the SSS itself.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

I think monir meant the world in which the SSS operates rather than the SSS itself.

Ya I know, it's just that the other person (Anh Minh) goes for the other definition. As long as the misunderstanding is cleared so that the debate can move on as it should.

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by monir

Again, what "suicide?" We have yet to establish what SSS is. You are labeling it as suicide because you are thinking as if these people are alive similar to what you and me considers being alive. The show already established that these people have seemingly passed away. (Even that portion isn't crystal clear) Haven't they also hammered into us that people in SSS are impervious to dying?

They aren't impervious to dying; death just has a different definition in their world. They might be "passed away" from the perspective of the world they came from, but to each other, they are very much alive. And equally from their perspective, "vanished" people are dead--no one remaining in that world can ever interact with those people again, they have ceased to exist, they aren't coming back, there is no knowing what's "on the other side". Dead. And that remains the case even in the highly unlikely event that this is a coma dream, so long as vanishment is a total one-way process.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Haak

This was before Hinata discovered for sure that you disappear from finding inner peace (he found out during Naoi's tyranny). And it's not like inner peace is something you can just aim for. How is he or anyone supposed to know how to come to terms with their regrets. So far it seems they come to you. It's like saying Iwasawa didn't want to find inner peace. Except she did. If she didn't want to then she wouldn't have.

You assumed the first point since Yuri have told him about it even previous to the SSS's existence, and no one disappeared during Naoi or baseball event to confirm whatever there you implied. If one incident in the anime can shows that "for sure they will disappear when they find inner peace", then it would has to be the Iwasawa 's case.

Inner peace isn't something you can just aim for? I thought people do it all the time in this real world? It's even easier among the SSS, go to school and enjoy it like others.

Also Anh Minh mentioned before that the difference is Iwasawa chose so by her own will. Remember how outrage people turned out when they suspect Naoi set up Iwasawa to get her to disappear (back in ep 5 when he was thought to be the main boss?).

We seriously do not need Otonashi to play God, sneak behind people back, collect necessary information to get them disappearing (if and only if that's what he's planning to do). The SSS seems capable enough to decide themselves if they want to stay with Yuri and others for another while or to settle down. There's no reason to rush up

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

They aren't impervious to dying; death just has a different definition in their world. They might be "passed away" from the perspective of the world they came from, but to each other, they are very much alive. And equally from their perspective, "vanished" people are dead--no one remaining in that world can ever interact with those people again, they have ceased to exist, they aren't coming back, there is no knowing what's "on the other side". Dead. And that remains the case even in the highly unlikely event that this is a coma dream, so long as vanishment is a total one-way process.

It seems like we're treading into the territory of semantics here, let's just stick to one definition for death because this is not going to get anywhere. It's apparent that any normal person would die from each particular situation that we're shown in this anime, so being impervious to death does apply. I certainly understand what you're saying but you seem to misunderstand the context in which it was used.

It's interesting to see the different reactions of people with different beliefs on what seems to be the right thing to do in Otonashi's shoes. I'm not entirely sure what the message will be in the end but so far, this anime exemplifies the unfairness of circumstances in life. I'm inclined to say that in the end, they all simply have to deal with the fact that life is unfair and that their life was not a waste. I'm more intrigued in watching the rest of Yuri's life, considering the fact that we have yet to find out how exactly she died.

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

It's interesting to see the different reactions of people with different beliefs on what seems to be the right thing to do in Otonashi's shoes. I'm not entirely sure what the message will be in the end but so far, this anime exemplifies the unfairness of circumstances in life. I'm inclined to say that in the end, they all simply have to deal with the fact that life is unfair and that their life was not a waste. I'm more intrigued in watching the rest of Yuri's life, considering the fact that we have yet to find out how exactly she died.

Agreed . I hope by the end they will show Yurippe's life and show a final combat battle between Kanade and Yurippe.

[DeX-kun]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

Agreed . I hope by the end they will show Yurippe's life and show a final combat battle between Kanade and Yurippe.

I have a gut feeling that the final confrontation is going to be between Yuri and Otonashi

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I have a gut feeling that the final confrontation is going to be between Yuri and Otonashi

Me too but I hope the final action scene goes to Yuri and Kanade and then Otonashi convince Yurippe to stop fighting then somehow a touching moment appears.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by monir

This is where my point of view differs. SSS's goal is vague to say the least. We have absolutely no idea what SSS is. Some of us are saying it's purgatory. Some are saying it's a form of "after life." There are also some viewers who think these are gathering of people whose bodies are probably in a comatose state in some hospital bed.

Doesn't matter, since they don't know either.

Again, what "suicide?" We have yet to establish what SSS is. You are labeling it as suicide because you are thinking as if these people are alive similar to what you and me considers being alive. The show already established that these people have seemingly passed away. (Even that portion isn't crystal clear) Haven't they also hammered into us that people in SSS are impervious to dying?





While I agree with you to a certain degree about the above, it is too much of premature conclusion to link their "disappearance" with "death" or "suicide" just yet. I, however, agree that Otonashi should inform the rest about his finding.

Like I've said, we have absolutely no idea what direction the show is going toward to come up with such reasoning and wording them in such terms of how we understand, "death", "suicide", "being alive" etc. If you think they are committing suicide by choosing to disappear, then it means you already know what SSS is all about. On the contrary, we have no idea what SSS is about or why these people are gathered here. For all we know, these disappearance triggers another set point to their lives. We simply don't have enough information to draw any concrete conclusion that parallels to our own understanding of how we interpret living and dying. That's all.

What KaneDragon said. They're alive enough to laugh, cry or play music. As for being impervious to death... They won't die from blood loss or organ damage. But they can still disappear, which for all practical purposes is death. They're cut off from all who remain and we don't know what happens to them. Exactly like RL death. There are plenty of people who say it's not the end, but the truth of the matter is that nobody knows. And to paraphrase myself, religion excuses nothing. No matter what you believe, you can't just go around murdering whoever you please. Tricking them into suicide is a grayer area, but it's not certainly not "good".

[Haak]

Originally Posted by monir

I believe you've very different views about this show which works against the type of tone the show has set for itself.

Yeah that's pretty much what i was gonna say. Ahn Minh says that their 'caught in the moment' doesn't really count as what they really think. That may be true in real life but that's not what the tone of the show is suggesting. And what the tone of show is suggesting is what we should use as indicators to characters motivations, rather than our own beliefs.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

You assumed the first point since Yuri have told him about it even previous to the SSS's existence, and no one disappeared during Naoi or baseball event to confirm whatever there you implied. If one incident in the anime can shows that "for sure they will disappear when they find inner peace", then it would has to be the Iwasawa 's case.

Yuri only said that people disappear if they do ordinary things. She never said you disappear from finding inner peace. And I think that's exactly what Iwasawa's case was implying. Lot's of exposition are given as 'just one case'. But it's still exposition. And hey, Otonashi made the same assumptions. That's practically as good as Jun Meada himself saying it's the assumption we're supposed to make.

Inner peace isn't something you can just aim for? I thought people do it all the time in this real world? It's even easier among the SSS, go to school and enjoy it like others.

Okay, what I mean was that it's not something you just know how to do. You can aim for it, but that doesn't mean you have any idea of what or how to do it.

Also Anh Minh mentioned before that the difference is Iwasawa chose so by her own will. Remember how outrage people turned out when they suspect Naoi set up Iwasawa to get her to disappear (back in ep 5 when he was thought to be the main boss?).

We seriously do not need Otonashi to play God, sneak behind people back, collect necessary information to get them disappearing (if and only if that's what he's planning to do). The SSS seems capable enough to decide themselves if they want to stay with Yuri and others for another while or to settle down. There's no reason to rush up

Um..the original point was that Anh Minh said that all the SSS members were there because they didn't want to find inner peace, which i took issue with. The fact that you say iwasawa chose it by her own will only proves my point. And I certainly don't see a diffrence between Iwasawa choosing it by her own will, and Hinata catching that ball.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Haak

Yuri only said that people disappear if they do ordinary things. She never said you disappear from finding inner peace. And I think that's exactly what Iwasawa's case was implying. Lot's of exposition are given as 'just one case'. But it's still exposition. And hey, Otonashi made the same assumptions. That's practically as good as Jun Meada himself saying it's the assumption we're supposed to make.

Originally Posted by Yurippe - when she first met Hinata

“Once you become satisfied in this world, you‟ll attain Nirvana. Like I said, this is the place to sort out your thoughts. You‟ll disappear right away after you‟ve gotten rid of all your lingering regrets.”

I guess that settle your assumption

Um..the original point was that Anh Minh said that all the SSS members were there because they didn't want to find inner peace, which i took issue with. The fact that you say iwasawa chose it by her own will only proves my point. And I certainly don't see a diffrence between Iwasawa choosing it by her own will, and Hinata catching that ball.

The point is no one will blame Otonashi in that screen if Hinata catch that ball because it's unexpected and have only Hinata as the only decision maker. But if Otonashi take that as an excuse to purposely set up similar incidents, then he seriously is a bastard right there.

Like I said, "want to" and "carrying them out" are two different matters. The only justified and logical transition to one from another is through one own independent decision especially if it's irreversible (unless he/she 's not capable to do so)

[guuchan]

Aren't we beating a dead horse a bit too much here? Let it rest in peace! As much as I love this episode, I'm so glad we will get to see the next one in about one and a half day.

[Seitsuki]

10?.. almost over already lol

time goes so fast

[maplehurry]

Aren't we beating a dead horse a bit too much here? Let it rest in peace!

pfff, who says the dead horse wants peace ??

[guuchan]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

pfff, who says the dead horse wants peace ??

Oh noes, please don't get the dead horse involved in Otonashi/Tenshi conspiracy theory too!

[Crontica]

/Raises tinfoil hat

THE WITCH DID IT!

[Haak]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

I guess that settle your assumption

Well that's a kicker...

The point is no one will blame Otonashi in that screen if Hinata catch that ball because it's unexpected and have only Hinata as the only decision maker. But if Otonashi take that as an excuse to purposely set up similar incidents, then he seriously is a bastard right there.

Like I said, "want to" and "carrying them out" are two different matters. The only justified and logical transition to one from another is through one own independent decision especially if it's irreversible (unless he/she 's not capable to do so)

Yes but as i already pointed out, Hinata WAS going to carry it out. It was only an external factor that got in the way. The difference between wanting to do it and carrying it out is an internal factor. In fact you just pointed it out now by saying "unless he is not capable of doing so".

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Crontica

/Raises tinfoil hat

THE WITCH DID IT!

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Haak

Well that's a kicker...

Yes but as i already pointed out, Hinata WAS going to carry it out. It was only an external factor that got in the way. The difference between wanting to do it and carrying it out is an internal factor. In fact you just pointed it out now by saying "unless he is not capable of doing so".

Yeah so we both agree that the internal factor is the only justified and logical factor to decide to go from "want something" to "actually do it", right? And i'm not sure about you but we probably can agree that Hinata is capable to realise if he want to do something or not
So as long as Otonashi does not consciously have a certain degree of external influence over Hinata's decision (in oppose to Yui who seems just jump him impulsively), and as long as his judgment is crossed out from any major external factor, then it's his decision and we all can respect that.


That's pretty much it. Now between me and ep 10 is a sea of lava and three bunny girls with bow of light. Wish me luck for the earlier everyone, I probably can handle the later on my own.