2012-03-11, 01:27 | Link #981 | ||||
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Age: 35
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In the flashback in this episode, at the very end, (human) Yuu specifically said to Saya "there's no world more painful than this" and then made Saya agree to promise to protect her. Yuu then proceeded to unlock Saya's "other self". It is completely clear that the original, human Yuu went to live in the otherworld, and that that Yuu is the only one who Saya cares about--Saya doesn't really care about STR (the non-human Yuu currently in the real world) at all. Quote:
The middle school girls in this show are not particularly more fragile than normal ones are. Saya just happens to be deliberately trolling them, saying shit like "you're the laughingstock of the school" or "nobody would care if you died" when she's supposed to be in the trusted position of a guidance counsellor. Kagari is the one exception who went crazy by herself; Yomi and Kohata would've been fine without Saya's intervention. The point is, most people, including Mato, would not normally undergo enough pain to unlock something like IBRS without any trolling from Saya. Quote:
STR and Saya basically said that BRS has the potential to destroy the other world. That was this episode. This is the basis for believing that BRS somehow intends to do so. It's also the reason we have been given thus far for why Saya wants to defeat her. Quote:
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2012-03-11, 04:04 | Link #982 | ||||||
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Going by that trend makes it hard to take anything the show gives us seriously and more of trying to pull some sort of response out of the audience. Given that Yomi has gone completely bonkers by the end of the fifth episode, it wasn't surprising when Mato started to show signs of depression, frustration, desperation and even despair. I mean, she find that no one remembers Yuu her childhood friend and Saya does a 180 turn in her personality (from Mato's view) and tries to pretend strangle her, which you left out in your reply. All these unexplainable things and personal issues she is facing at home and at school act as destabilizing agents for Mato's sanity. For god's sake Yomi made a bracelet out of her own hair and then proceeded to paint this disturbing picture of Mato. To top things off Mato freaking bitchslapped kagari when she said "Yomi's heart broke" in a monotone voice. And now you say that Mato isn't at risk even with all this? Instead, you are telling me that Saya is too stupid to see the dangers of Mato's psyche descending into madness and awakening IBRS. Nope, since "The emotional traumas of people around Mato aren't enough to significantly harm her." from your point of view. That is just silly. Quote:
And again, whoever Mato meets or knows BRS will fight against, since they all causing Mato grief. Saya sending in Dead Master and Kohata against BRS happens because Saya sent Dead Master and Kohata against BRS. BRS isn't destroying the world, she is destroying whatever Mato is facing thanks to Saya. If they showed BRS killing anyone else that Mato hasn't met or is an acquaintance of then I would think differently, but that is not the case. Here, let me break it down for you in the very first episode from BRS's world. 1) BRS is lying on the jagged spike tower. 2) Jagged spike tower starts to grow and multiply. 3) We see BGS eyes at the bottom of the giant hole. 4) We see BRS getting attacked by BGS with her ridiculous giant-sizeed sword. And again later on in the episode with Chariot at 13:49: 1) We see BRS wandering aimlessly around 2) She noticed a green stream of lights flowing on the ground 3) She follows it 4) Sudden burst of light 5) She gets dragged into Chariots world 6) She gets fucking streamrolled by Chariot while exploring. Quote:
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Last edited by Elestia; 2012-03-11 at 04:21. |
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2012-03-11, 06:32 | Link #983 |
Romance Expert
Join Date: Feb 2012
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im not really defending the series but I think its more like saya was "grooming" mato into someone she could use to help erase certain violent others(like kagari) instead of trying to kill BRS.
note that BRS was passive against chariot and didnt attack until after saya had her talk with mato. I dunno what to make of BGS attacking in the first ep though, it could have just been symbolic/tease like in OP songs. or it could be that BGS was just making her moves on preventing her. she just didnt think that it would lead to this. (actually an old theory, and weird right now) |
2012-03-11, 06:49 | Link #984 | |
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In any case. I agree with Sol Falling that Saya wanted to get rid of BRS since the beginning (she toyed with the idea of killing Mato in episode 5, before IBRS appeared, remember?), and that her objective is to protect Yuu who is trapped in the other world.
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2012-03-11, 08:38 | Link #985 | |||
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Stuff like people not knowing who Yuu is, the "nice counsellor lady" for some reason strangling her, etc. would've been confusing for Mato, but there is no reason they would have to give her an actual emotionally wound. Mato has a generally positive/optimistic personality (hell, Yomi and Kohata were initially optimistic as well), it would require deliberate targeted/malicious attacks like Saya uses for it to actually be dangerous. The difference lies specifically in whether someone is actively trying to worsen all the bad things she's experienced. Random stuff in the real world like bitchslapping somebody or seeing a disturbing painting is simply not on the same level as being forced to see yourself kill somebody you wanted to save. There is no evidence at all that IBRS would have appeared without Yuu's actions. Quote:
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2012-03-11, 11:11 | Link #987 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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What I meant by the comparison wasn't to draw parallels directly between the two except in the sense of thematics. Madoka is a dark fantasy story. It's not happy, for the most part. People suffer, people do bad things, and the fantasy elements of the story use that surrealism to further drive that point home. You could mostly remove those fantasy elements and still have a dark story of course; the characters are definitely tragic for the most part. The same is true of BRS. This is not a happy story, and this is reinforced over and over again. However the fantasy is essential, as it drives most of the character interactions, and allows the writers to introduce and expand on themes that don't come up in standard drama. It provides both the setting and the metaphor for the questions raised to the audience. As genres go, they are both very different stories with different means to an end. As far as thematics go, they are both very similar: tragic, dark, depressing, disturbing, further emphasized by the fantasy elements the characters are caught up in. Hence why I said "easily capable of standing next to Madoka in terms of dark fantasy". (bold and link added) Admittedly it's not an easy definition to explain, but I hope my comment is more understandable now.
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2012-03-11, 11:41 | Link #988 | |
minority spirit(?)
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Well, I can't be as optimistic as you about the preorders, but the last episode picked some of people's interest, I think. |
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2012-03-11, 20:05 | Link #990 | ||||
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Right. Cause there is no way she didn't run the risk at all before she was transferred to the otherworld. You are again arguing that Saya would be stupid enough to gamble that Mato wouldn't awaken. She is trying to prevent IBRS from awakening at all costs, when she slapped Yuu it tells us how strongly Saya wanted to prevent that from happening. If IBRS awoken then no one would be able to stop her, yet you are telling me she wanted to bet against that worst-case-scenario still. As I have pointed out, BRS did not seem to be randomly killing or targeting alter-egos indiscriminately. There was no reason to kill BRS for the reasons Saya stated of "destroying the world". Considering all the crap Mato went through to try to save Yomi from Kagari's messed up relationship, I would think Mato would care very deeply about Yomi's situation. There is a reason why Mato responded so strongly to Kagari's comments about Yomi. Considering that Mato's remaining few persons she could trust was the school counselor, a refuge and sanctuary from her worries, but instead betrays that trust with an unexplainable and threatening action. Considering that Yuu is Mato's childhood friend that everyone in school knew, but suddenly one-day not a single person remembers her except herself. What would Mato be thinking of at that time? Maybe that she is going insane? Maybe Yuu was somehow a hallucination? Or when Mato was starting to forget Yuu too? What do you think would have happened if Mato didn't find Yuu sitting on the riverbank while she was desperately trying cling onto her memories of Yuu? That there was no trace of Yuu in the world and that somehow all her memories of Yuu were fake or a lie. Quote:
And remember what Yuu said. If Saya didn't keep sending people close to Mato through a traumatic experience, there is no reason to believe that BRS would be destroying the world. What Mato worries about will inevitably lead BRS to "dealing with the situation".
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2012-03-11, 20:07 | Link #991 | |
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2012-03-11, 20:26 | Link #993 | |
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Episode 3 timeline: Kohata gives love letter to Takkun. (5:00) BGS reaches out to Kohata's Alter-ego. (9:25) Letter is exposed. (14:29)
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2012-03-11, 20:38 | Link #994 |
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I was seeing the scene from Takkun's perspective.
It looked to me that Takkun knew his friends were going to post the letter and he, being part of "the group", didn't try to stop them fearing they would reject him. Remember that he tried to get Kohata to forgive him by promising that he would explain things to the others. If it was Saya who somehow got her hands on it, he would have told Kohata that it had been Saya instead of him feeling guilty about what happened. |
2012-03-11, 20:40 | Link #995 | |
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2012-03-11, 20:48 | Link #996 | |
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There's nothing suggesting that Saya was responsible for Kohata's letter being revealed except your theory that Saya is deliberately targeting Mato's weaknesses (which we already know doesn't make sense because Saya is against the awakening of I. Black Rock Shooter). So why don't you just accept that Saya is not deliberately trying to cause grief for Mato. Also keep in mind that things like Mato discovering that Yuu isn't real have nothing to do with Saya. The only dumb thing Saya did was to try to choke Mato, but we already know that that was because Saya was thinking about killing her, not trying to awaken IBRS. Saya did not approach Kohata. Kohata approached Saya. Remember the story. |
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2012-03-11, 22:06 | Link #997 | |||||
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Also, irony much? What I posted a while back. Quote:
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The issue for who posted the letter is a minor point at best. You and dan-heron are making a straw man out of it. In the end, Saya mind-trolled Kohata. As you said, it just so happens the letter was exposed. Saya simply just took advantage of it. This allowed BRS to destroy Kohata's puppy love with Takkun. Hence, why I stated that Saya indirectly sent Kohata's alter ego to be destroyed by BRS based on this picture again. Also, really? Do I have to bring this picture out again? Maybe this quote will refresh your memory as to why I don't think that way. Weakness? I see you haven't bothered reading what I wrote. Quote:
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Right. Because I said Yuu disappearing was a some sort of shenanigan from Saya. Not because I was pointing out that Mato was going to snap from all her stresses built up from Saya, Yomi, and Yuu. Nope, that was entirely my main argument. I'm not naive enough to think that single choke scene is enough to awaken BRS, which is specifically why I highlighted the amount of shit that Mato has been going through, by framing the context and perspective, that may culminate into IBRS awakening or cause Mato to experience a great mental burden. Uh-huh. That makes complete sense, because Saya was just bored and no better reason than to mind troll Kohata after that event. She could have left Kohata alone, but no, Saya decided in the end to go all teary-eyed and walk to Kohata who was sitting on the sofa and do some funky mind-trolling on her. Nope, it's Kohata's fault she was mind-trolled by Saya, because Kohata approached Saya.
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2012-03-12, 00:21 | Link #998 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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IN the end, Dark Fantasy or not (I personally think it's a stretch), the show is suffering from lack of episodes and terrible writing. |
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2012-03-12, 02:11 | Link #1000 |
Snobby Gentleman
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Monterrey, México
Age: 43
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Ok. I have my suspicions about Yuu possibly going to the other world by herself.
If that's the case, then the Yuu we've seeing in the real world is the other self. Then, I assume the one who is fighting BRS right now is actually.... Spoiler:
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action, slice of life |
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