Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[mugener]

Originally Posted by Nagoyan

As a japanese conservative, I can say that this anime is not supportive of the right wingers in Japan at all. On the contrary, it contains lots of sarcasms on them. It reflects an ideological rift within japanese political scene from a left-wing perspective, so it may be hard to find what lies behind it except obvious anti-americanism.

sorry, pal, you are wrong.

Just watch ep.9 and you'll find that the "Nippon banzai!" canon sence in ep.8 is
the NO.2 favor sence among Japan.

look like Japanese really love their own country.

.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by mugener

sorry, pal, you are wrong.

Just watch ep.9 and you'll find that the "Nippon banzai!" canon sence in ep.8 is
the NO.2 favor sence among Japan.

look like Japanese really love their own country.

.

So? Shouldn't they love their own country?

Patriotism isn't a sin, you know.

[LS Eden]

Patriotism isn't a sin, yes - but we've seen to what it leads when it's took way too serious.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by LS Eden

Patriotism isn't a sin, yes - but we've seen to what it leads when it's took way too serious.

Everything leads to trouble when it's taken too seriously. I don't see why Japanese patriotism should be singled out for damnation, when there is a lack of cultural tolerance in this world right now.

So I should ask you again; what is so wrong with the Japanese loving their own country?

And before you answer, think about this; who is the one truely taking this too seriously, you or the anime production team?

[mugener]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Everything leads to trouble when it's taken too seriously. I don't see why Japanese patriotism should be singled out for damnation, when there is a lack of cultural tolerance in this world right now.

So I should ask you again; what is so wrong with the Japanese loving their own country?

And before you answer, think about this; who is the one truely taking this too seriously, you or the anime production team?

No, of course it's not wrong.

But I think that may be one of the main reasons why this show is not popular outside of Japan.

people sometimes just take things seriously without even knowing it.

.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by LS Eden

Patriotism isn't a sin, yes - but we've seen to what it leads when it's took way too serious.

Patriotism is good. Nationalism, however, is another matter.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by brightman

Patriotism is good. Nationalism, however, is another matter.

Well, you would have to understand that the Japanese characters in the show had their nation-hood ripped to shreds by an invading power, who literally treated them as inferior creatures. It's expected that they would over-compensate via use of flags and classic slogans as a consequence.

All use of Japanese symbolism and rhetoric in this show were perfectly justified by the story setting. If they weren't there, the story itself wouldn't make sense.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Are we still hung up on the matter of whatever presence of Japanese nationalism and/or patriotism?

It must be hard to understand for some people, but a dive into history during the World Wars should clear these things up a bit. Vallen is correct; the symbolism and rhetoric were used well, and will probably continue to be used as such. IMO, it isn't entirely just on the basis that the creator is Japanese himself and wishes to paint his country in a glorious picture of loyalty to the country. It's even easier to see once we see how some 'Elevens' simply, well, stay oppressed instead of trying to do anything. That's what the Japanese Liberation Front exists for: To fight back with the idea of regaining all that the country's lost.

[mugener]

I wonder, why use recent real world as story background instead of using fantasy world,
especially for this kind of show which has nationalism and/or patriotism in it.

Just like Gundam Seed, which also has nationalism and/or patriotism in it,
but there's no sign of japan banzai or anti-american since it's not base on recent real world.

Maybe Code Geass would be more popular if not for that recent real world background?

.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by mugener

I wonder, why use recent real world as story background instead of using fantasy world,
especially for this kind of show which has nationalism and/or patriotism in it.

Just like Gundam Seed, which also has nationalism and/or patriotism in it,
but there's no sign of japan banzai or anti-american since it's not base on recent real world.

Maybe Code Geass would be more popular if not for that recent real world background?

.

Using Gundam Seed isn't really appropriate here. It's main theme is based mainly on the differentiation between two different kinds of people thanks to scientific advancements of gene modification. IMO, it's meant to criticise and perhaps take a closer look at the possible damages cloning can do to the human race as an entirety. If there was to be any relation to real world issues, they would be more scientific than nationalistic, or even an actual in-depth look at racism in a way E.g. Apartheid).


I'm well aware of the shit that's going on currently, and also of the fact that parts of the whatever nationalism shown in CG are derived from that. Still, it doesn't mean that patriotism or nationalism shown is completely bad. What's wrong with trying to showcase your opinion with the help of a show? For all I know, I might actually be inclined to agree with CG's representation of Britannia as a certain country, if the situation in a certain country situated near Europe and Africa isn't improved.

Lastly, I would like to say that I meant no real harm in my criticism above. It's my opinion. Feel free to give it a try to change my opinion, because I sure as hell think it will stay that way unless something happens.

[Storm-and-Fire]

I've read through all 33 pages of this thread and I registered just to express my own opinion.

Originally Posted by mugener

But I think that may be one of the main reasons why this show is not popular outside of Japan.

Ehm... People that are not from America don't really care if Brittania portrays America. You might mean that it may be one of the main reasons why this show is not popular with American people. Because every ep's torrent gets more than a thousand peers every week. And if you check this page, it seems that each Code Geass episode is downloaded by an average of 10,000 people. And these are the stats only for one of [gg]'s trackers. If that is not popular, then I wonder what is.

The rest of my POV is under a spoiler tag, just in case you don't care.

Spoiler:

Some people need to wake up and realise that the world of Code Geass is entirely fictional. Even though it is set in the near future, it is fiction. You know, a person had a thought and developped it to create a TV show... If you take fiction SO seriously, you really REALLY need to get a life.

So... I see all people complaining and saying that Brittania portrays America. That is NOT at all mentioned in the show's first 8 episodes. Maybe the production are hinting to that, but geez people... For starters, do people in America actually USE most names of the princes and princesses? I'd be surprised if anyone told me their name is Euphemia even though it is a word in my own language.

U.S./American people should stop complaining because, if they do, this shows that they think of their country/continent as Brittania and don't like to be told the truth.

On the other hand, I don't see any British people complaining. After all, the name "Brittania" is more similar to the name "Britain". I know I'd be kinda disturbed if Brittania was "Grikkania" or something similar. And you know why they possibly don't complain? Because they are aware of how the world sees their country and know that Brittania can't be Britain. (You go, British people! ;D)

And just out of curiosity. Would there be any problem if there was another part of the world portrayed as Brittania? Or maybe the fuss is only because of that map which showed that Brittania had conquered America? *shrugs* If I was American, I'd know for sure.

So... Code Geass is one of the three shows I'm watching this season, the other two being NANA and Yamato Nadeshiko Shichihenge. It's really something to look forward to after a week full of studying. ^^

[chupacabra]

Meh can't wait for episode 10 to watch it and release it to the public as well

Spoiler:

Crimson Lotus 2nd Model looks completely fucking awesome i can't imagine what he can do

[passenger]

Originally Posted by mugener

No, of course it's not wrong.

But I think that may be one of the main reasons why this show is not popular outside of Japan.

people sometimes just take things seriously without even knowing it.

.

lol so people should sell their honors in order to sell their products. this is a typical example of western thinking. while western people critisize eastern countries with their so called modern thinking, in fact they believe in their own superiority bloodwise. before judging eastern patriotism why don't you people cure your own racist brains.???

[Sonhex]

Originally Posted by Storm-and-Fire

...
The rest of my POV is under a spoiler tag, just in case you don't care.

Spoiler:

Some people need to wake up and realise that the world of Code Geass is entirely fictional. Even though it is set in the near future, it is fiction. You know, a person had a thought and developped it to create a TV show... If you take fiction SO seriously, you really REALLY need to get a life.

So... I see all people complaining and saying that Brittania portrays America. That is NOT at all mentioned in the show's first 8 episodes. Maybe the production are hinting to that, but geez people... For starters, do people in America actually USE most names of the princes and princesses? I'd be surprised if anyone told me their name is Euphemia even though it is a word in my own language.

U.S./American people should stop complaining because, if they do, this shows that they think of their country/continent as Brittania and don't like to be told the truth.

On the other hand, I don't see any British people complaining. After all, the name "Brittania" is more similar to the name "Britain". I know I'd be kinda disturbed if Brittania was "Grikkania" or something similar. And you know why they possibly don't complain? Because they are aware of how the world sees their country and know that Brittania can't be Britain. (You go, British people! ;D)

And just out of curiosity. Would there be any problem if there was another part of the world portrayed as Brittania? Or maybe the fuss is only because of that map which showed that Brittania had conquered America? *shrugs* If I was American, I'd know for sure.

...

Well I'm a Brit, and one that cares little if Britannia is based on Britain. Simply because it bares little resemblance whatsoever to the original British Empire (pre-WWI) and absolutely none to the current state of the United Kingdom.

The writers might be levelling blame at the original British Empire for its rabid exploration and expansion in which Japan and other countries were 'opened' to the Western world. Or for begatting the US, along with other European nations but again, it's hard to feel any kind of response to that as it is very distant from our modern country. Code Geass has made it all so purposefully vague that no real conclusions can be drawn one way or the other as to who is the target of their wrath.

I personally think Britannia is a euphemism for any aggressive Western Empire that uses military force to expand its domestic and oversees concerns. It might be based on the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the German Empire or current American Empire. The latter poses the only legitimate modern threat to borders and societies not necessarily through conflict but through cultural dilution; which is one of Japan's major concerns.

Welcome to Animesuki btw, have fun

[Storm-and-Fire]

Originally Posted by Sonhex

Well I'm a Brit, and one that cares little if Britannia is based on Britain. Simply because it bares little resemblance whatsoever to the original British Empire (pre-WWI) and absolutely none to the current state of the United Kingdom.

Seems my assumption was right. ^^

Originally Posted by Sonhex

I personally think Britannia is a euphemism for any aggressive Western Empire that uses military force to expand its domestic and oversees concerns. It might be based on the Roman Empire, the British Empire, the German Empire or current American Empire. The latter poses the only legitimate modern threat to borders and societies not necessarily through conflict but through cultural dilution; which is one of Japan's major concerns.

That's exactly what I think. It's a conventional empire that could be based on any of the ones you've metioned.

Originally Posted by Sonhex

Welcome to Animesuki btw, have fun

Thank you very much. ^^

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Sonhex

Well I'm a Brit, and one that cares little if Britannia is based on Britain. Simply because it bares little resemblance whatsoever to the original British Empire (pre-WWI) and absolutely none to the current state of the United Kingdom.

I'm also a Brit' who's not to bothered, but at least there's a reason behind me saying "All Hail Britannia!". :3

[metamorphic]

There are also numerous Britannia characters portrayed very favourably and in a positive light; I mean, Lelouch, the main character, himself is Britannian - the reason he wishes to destroy the Britannia Empire is to destroy the type of world (survival of the fittest) the emperor envisages: a type of world in which Nanaly will not survive. Other Britannian characters are also portrayed quite favourably, for example both Euphemia and Cecile are two good-hearted characters (and we could even add Lyold to this list, though he's probably just crazy ^_^). Even Cornelia herself was portrayed in a quite positive light for the past few episodes.

I have also got a feeling that C.C. and her civilization might become the most major emphasis of the series quite soon (and is currently quite a major plot point, perhaps the most major, in my opinion), since there are numerous hints pointing to this direction, both in the OP/ED sequences & throughout the series (as highlighted numerous times by Sonhex and other users in other threads). The hints to Jupiter and ancient civilization are really quite interesting. Code Geass is an amazing series, and there are so many interesting plot points & hints throughout every episode, it's really tantalizing.

[Storm-and-Fire]

Originally Posted by Mysteria

(and we could even add Lyold to this list, though he's probably just crazy ^_^).

That's why we like him. XD

Originally Posted by Mysteria

I have also got a feeling that C.C. and her civilization might become the most major emphasis of the series quite soon (and is currently quite a major plot point, perhaps the most major, in my opinion), since there are numerous hints pointing to this direction, both in the OP/ED sequences & throughout the series (as highlighted numerous times by Sonhex and other users in other threads). The hints to Jupiter and ancient civilization are really quite interesting. Code Geass is an amazing series, and there are so many interesting plot points & hints throughout every episode, it's really tantalizing.

I'm really looking forward to see what their role will be in the story. I hope that Sunrise will make good use of them and not waste them.

All hail the people of Jupiter!

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Mysteria

I have also got a feeling that C.C. and her civilization might become the most major emphasis of the series quite soon (and is currently quite a major plot point, perhaps the most major, in my opinion), since there are numerous hints pointing to this direction, both in the OP/ED sequences & throughout the series (as highlighted numerous times by Sonhex and other users in other threads). The hints to Jupiter and ancient civilization are really quite interesting.

well yea i think that C.C still has a few hidden powers up her sleeves ~ and the background info on her when revealed will rock out of this world

[monstratboy]

I know this might be annoying to bring this up again but ...

Originally Posted by mugener
I wonder, why use recent real world as story background instead of using fantasy world, especially for this kind of show which has nationalism and/or patriotism in it.
Just like Gundam Seed, which also has nationalism and/or patriotism in it, but there's no sign of japan banzai or anti-american since it's not base on recent real world.

Maybe Code Geass would be more popular if not for that recent real world background?

... doesn't the 'Zaft no tamini!/For a clean and blue world!'(You know the quotes I mean) sort of resemble the Nippon Banzai/All hail Brittania. Which I think are just phrases to catch our attention like in professional wrestling.
And though they are fictional worlds it is interesting to hear about the political situations that lead up to the stories in GS(cheap labour overthrowing their masters/masters finding new profit in war) and CG(weaker country invaded to get cheaper resources and test new weaponry).

It does seem that the writers have the idea 'power corrupts' going through their heads, and it is possible it may have been put there by news media whether present or past.