(L) Dragon Ball Super

[alex_drian]

The moral of the story, NOTHING, Goku and Vegeta learnt NOTHING

Well, at least Gohan learnt the lection

[Hakai]

Well they at least learned how to turn their hairs blue

Leave all the other mess to the Dragon Balls

[Gundamx]

Vegeta defeat Frieza easily because he already lost most of his power.

His punch lost it's effect even against Goku after his time limit end.

He only had look, but not the strength

[ninjastarforcex]

when is the next manga chapter, the anime is already on the same arc now with champa

[justavisitor]

Goku and Vegeta may be extremely great fighters, but they are not good finishers XD, I mean, when you look at the following:

Goku vs Freeza 1st time...bye bye namek
Goku and Vegeta vs kid buu...bye bye earth
Vegeta vs Golden Freeza...well we know the story XD
(not to mention Gohan vs half complete cell )

on the other hand, Future Trunks finishes freeza, king cold, 17, 18, and cell properly, not letting the enemies have any chance to destroy the Earth in the process

And it's nice to see that Gohan is willing to train again, but he got the wrong mentor..why not train from his dad, who is 1000 times more powerful than picoolo ?

[Nvis]

Vegeta knew Goku's bad points, but Vegeta has his bad points, too. Like arrogance and "pride".

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Goku and Vegeta may be extremely great fighters, but they are not good finishers XD, I mean, when you look at the following:

Goku vs Freeza 1st time...bye bye namek
Goku and Vegeta vs kid buu...bye bye earth
Vegeta vs Golden Freeza...well we know the story XD
(not to mention Gohan vs half complete cell )

on the other hand, Future Trunks finishes freeza, king cold, 17, 18, and cell properly, not letting the enemies have any chance to destroy the Earth in the process

And it's nice to see that Gohan is willing to train again, but he got the wrong mentor..why not train from his dad, who is 1000 times more powerful than picoolo ?

Well, Future Trunks had an overwhelming advantage over Freeza and King Cold. He knew when they would be coming and what they were capable of, while Freeza and Cold knew nothing as well as Future Trunks just being much more powerful. It also has as much to do with Freeza being stupid and not taking his dad's advice to just blast the planet from orbit.

Same goes with Future Androids and Cell. They had no way whatsoever of winning.

SSJ Goku was just somewhat stronger than Freeza but had to adjust to his new form, while Freeza could survive Namek's destruction-- Goku couldn't and had to get out. He barely did. It's just a clear case where defeating someone isn't enough to kill them. Buu's obviously the biggest example; a number of people could beat Buu around and even turn him into dust but his regeneration was too much. And they're all pretty sore losers; when Cell got the perfect kicked out of him, lots of people could have finished him off, but then he finds a way to blow up the planet.

Vegeta is actually one of the best finishers; notice how brutally he took apart people when he has the chance. Zarbon, Jeice, whoever else the heck got in his way during Namek, and Android 19 would attest to that. The whole Ginyuu force is dead thanks to him, while Goku was willing to let them go. Out of the main characters, I do believe he has the highest kill count.

Obviously they did fuck up here badly and a lot of the stuff at the end of this arc wouldn't be possible if they weren't, but there's that constant desire for exciting fights that definitely has caused them trouble more than once.

As for masters; masters don't have to be strong to teach you stuff. King Kai, Master Roshi, and those folks from Yardrat aren't anywhere near the strongest fighters in the universe, but Goku learned some pretty useful stuff from them; stuff he used long after too.

[Mister Twit]

For the most part Super has outdone the movie in pretty much every way but there was one thing that bothered me. I thought the movie did better by blatantly introducing Whis' time travel ability instead of trying to sneak it in. Honestly I don't think the story was any better off by hiding it, in fact by holding off until the crucial moment it just ended up feeling like an asspull.

Looking forward to the new arc finally!

[DXMichael]

So just a quick question, at this point in the anime who is actually stronger, Goku or Vegeta?

Originally Posted by justavisitor

And it's nice to see that Gohan is willing to train again, but he got the wrong mentor..why not train from his dad, who is 1000 times more powerful than picoolo ?

Probably because Goku will be to busy training with Beerus, Whis and Vegeta

I also think it's because Piccolo is a second father to Gohan and with such a long history of Piccolo being the mentor and Gohan being the disciple it probably feels right that they come together again.

[justavisitor]

@Archon_Wing
pretty much agree on everything...the way Vegeta finished android 19 was epic...but I still think Future Trunks was also a superbe finisher, due to the fact that he came from a doomed future which made him to put the priority of protecting the earth much higher than enjoying the fight...freeza, king cold, 17, 18, and incomplete cell, while they were much weaker than trunks, still could the destroy the planet with a sneeze XD, Future trunks still had to be very careful, but he got the job done every single time

@DXMichael I think they are pretty much equal, but Vegeta got the credit of reaching to that level all by himself XD (That makes me think the blue form won't be the final form in this series...there will be a form when only goku can reach )

I thought the reason Gohan wants to train with picoolo is, at this moment, goku and vegeta can accidentally kill Gohan while training ...

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by DXMichael

So just a quick question, at this point in the anime who is actually stronger, Goku or Vegeta?

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Beerus/Whis stated that Vegeta had a chance of surpassing Goku? Maybe it was in the movie or something.

In any case they'll always keep Goku ahead of Vegeta. I highly doubt they'll ever have Vegeta be stronger than Goku unless it's for a short instant.

I also think it's because Piccolo is a second father to Gohan and with such a long history of Piccolo being the mentor and Gohan being the disciple it probably feels right that they come together again.

Pretty much. It's not about strength it's about teaching and Piccolo's a good instructor though I do recall Goku saying that he was a harsher teacher than Piccolo

[Hakai]

Whis said in the movie Goku was a step ahead because he's more relaxed on the battlefield or something along with the lines

In terms of PL I'd say they are roughly equal with Goku having better mental skills and Vegeta better physical

[ChainLegacy]

I think Vegeta has proven he is the superior warrior from a mentality perspective, regardless of what the characters say. He was able to master god ki without the ritual, he was the one to realize they had to internalize their ki to move in the staff time chamber place, he noticed Frieza slipping, etc. Honestly, now that Vegeta has reformed more or less completely he's just a much better hero than Goku.

[Hakai]

He's a genius but he loses his cool in the battlefield
We can clearly see that in the DBS chapter 5 when he spars with Goku

Spoiler for Chapter5:

[Sixth]

Living in dbverse is pretty shitty. There are just too many planet buster aliens. Worse of all, even the weakest one can casually destroy the planet without notifying the earthlings.

The earth is just lucky.

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by noobita

Living in dbverse is pretty shitty. There are just too many planet buster aliens. Worse of all, even the weakest one can casually destroy the planet without notifying the earthlings.

The earth is just lucky.

Kinda begs the question...

Why do they need a god of destruction?

I mean you had Freeza going around blowing planets up on a whim.

You had some magical being named Buu that destroyed tons of worlds, can teleport into heaven, and killed 3/4 of the Gods of creation.

I mean the Gods of creation are weaklings in comparison to these guys.

I mean if Beerus' job is to balance the universe shouldn't there be some...I dunno magical powerful God who's job is to create life but also just as powerful?

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

Kinda begs the question...

Why do they need a god of destruction?

I mean you had Freeza going around blowing planets up on a whim.

You had some magical being named Buu that destroyed tons of worlds, can teleport into heaven, and killed 3/4 of the Gods of creation.

I mean the Gods of creation are weaklings in comparison to these guys.

I mean if Beerus' job is to balance the universe shouldn't there be some...I dunno magical powerful God who's job is to create life but also just as powerful?

Not to mention Saiyan Vegeta is capable of this feat. He is just 18k at that time.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

@Archon_Wing
pretty much agree on everything...the way Vegeta finished android 19 was epic...but I still think Future Trunks was also a superbe finisher, due to the fact that he came from a doomed future which made him to put the priority of protecting the earth much higher than enjoying the fight...freeza, king cold, 17, 18, and incomplete cell, while they were much weaker than trunks, still could the destroy the planet with a sneeze XD, Future trunks still had to be very careful, but he got the job done every single time

Well, that's why Future Trunks was so unique for a Saiyan. He's basically a soldier and he doesn't fuck around and doesn't showboat. At its time it just went against what we knew of how people fight. Even Cell, who got Saiyan DNA, also turned into a showboating jackass. That's why when he sees Vegeta and Goku going for intresting fights, he's just like "What's wrong with you people"? He even tried to attack during a trasnformation and as a small detail doesn't announce his attacks either.

I guess I never considered that; but meeting Future Trunks probably did affect how Vegeta ended up treating his own son... a lot better most likely.

In the end, you're probably still right that the Vegeta line is more effective at killing. Goku's too soft, and Gohan just never wanted any of this.

[rladls2121]

Originally Posted by noobita

Living in dbverse is pretty shitty. There are just too many planet buster aliens. Worse of all, even the weakest one can casually destroy the planet without notifying the earthlings.

The earth is just lucky.

In real life if there's actually such existence like Frieza and his strong soldiers come to earth, and does the things that he did to other planets, and there are far more harsh suffering than blow up planets.
I would regret that I was born.

Just how many planets Frieza conquered when he was living, more than 89?

[Nvis]

Freeza's ship is intact. Now that's surprising. Wonder if Capsule Corp gets dibs and Bulma's there too?