Dragon Ball Super (Manga)

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by GDB

Correct. Not sure why this misunderstanding keeps coming up.

Because it was never explained anywhere as far as I know. I still think strength is one of the factors.

[Kyero Fox]

I want Gohan to win some how be stronger than Kefla so the Power Scaling community can show its true bias colors and be okay with it when they whined about caulifla and kale like man children being upset that they got SSJ easily.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Because it was never explained anywhere as far as I know. I still think strength is one of the factors.

yeah i also don't remember anything about they giving a proper explanation about "mortal levels" and what it means, because it could means a lot of things, like "technology level, or magic power level, or combat power , or many others things and even all the things.

Universe 7 was on the low level because of freeza keep destroying planets and civilizations for his own selfish at non stop and don't allowing any person "grow strong" than him.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Tong

Only one universe would be acceptable to have a god tier fighter, since Vados had already stated that one of them had a mortal who was stronger than a GoD, and that's U11.

And honestly, would it be even reasonable to have fighters who are near GoD level in other universes, besides U7 and U11?
Goku and Vegeta are only near that because Whis and Beerus personally trained them for a long time. Toppo is acceptable because he's a GoD candidate, so he probably went under the similar training. Kale is the legendary Saiyan, so shes defies standard powerlevels.

Also these powerlevels have already been estabilished waaaaay before ToP. In the U6 vs U7 tournament Hit was only SSG Goku level and he was their strongest fighter at the time.

Only one universe was said to have a fighter above god level, but that's the ONLY detail that was established. Nothing about the other universes was said. Also Goku actually first unlocked God level power not through training with whis, but by fullfilling an ancient saiyan ritual. I'd also say that for their to be candidates for god of destruction like Toppo there must be individuals capable of rising up to ridiculous heights of power. Not to mention that mortals exceeding godly expectations is a running gag in this series.

Frankly i see no reason at all why the other universes should not have their own top tier fighters. The idea that they don't only makes the multiverse feel SMALL. I mean why should readers care about any of these other universes if they don't offer anything worthwhile? The other universes might aswell not exist, and we just limit the tournament to just U6,7 and 11. That's where the anime shined since it made the other universes feel like they had lives of their own, like there was a lot more to the world of dragon ball than what's going on with Goku and his pals. That's just great world building... (its actually a problem i had with them limiting U7's team to just the characters we knew since i think it would have been interesting to throw in 1 or 2 unknowns just to spice things up)

And again THAT's the biggest problem with this rushed pacing. Its a complete and total waste of potential that only weakens the narrative and weakens the world building by making entire universes feel trivial.

Pretty sure Mortal Level ranks the overall development/quality of the mortal living in that universe, not necessarially strength/power levels.

As others have said, we never actually got an explanation on what "mortal levels" actually is. However it seems reasonable to assume that power IS a factor. The way they frame the discussion when they said Universe 7 was near the bottom during the announcement for the tournament seemed to be a way of setting up the tournament with the odds feeling like they might actually be against U7.

Also they decided that those with high mortal levels would be exempt from the Tournament and the rest would need to FIGHT for their right to live. If Mortal levels valued intelligence over physical power, then that would be a really unfair set up. Its like putting a scientist in a ring with gorilla; The scientist will contribute more to world, but based on tournament logic, the gorilla is the one who is gonna get to live based on pure brute strength. So even the tournament itself implies that power is indeed valued... though i would say the rule against the use of Tools is a week point for both versions as the use of weapons and magic items could have made things even more interesting (though godly items like the earings would likely still be banned).

[alex_drian]

Well, if I think about it well, characters jobbing in favor of show a certain strong character is nothing new in DB, but yeah here was an abuse.

Have you forgotten of Cold, the bigger jobber in the history of anime?

[Tong]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

As others have said, we never actually got an explanation on what "mortal levels" actually is. However it seems reasonable to assume that power IS a factor. The way they frame the discussion when they said Universe 7 was near the bottom during the announcement for the tournament seemed to be a way of setting up the tournament with the odds feeling like they might actually be against U7.

Also they decided that those with high mortal levels would be exempt from the Tournament and the rest would need to FIGHT for their right to live. If Mortal levels valued intelligence over physical power, then that would be a really unfair set up. Its like putting a scientist in a ring with gorilla; The scientist will contribute more to world, but based on tournament logic, the gorilla is the one who is gonna get to live based on pure brute strength. So even the tournament itself implies that power is indeed valued... though i would say the rule against the use of Tools is a week point for both versions as the use of weapons and magic items could have made things even more interesting (though godly items like the earings would likely still be banned).

While I agree that powerlevels arent the SOLE factor into mortal level, intelligence isnt the sole factor either. I'd say its a combination of both plus other factors, such as whether or not the many planets of an universe are developed or with strong fighters. So if you have a universe like 7's, where ONLY Earth has the strongest fighters, then the average power level of that universe would be pretty low.

If we take a look at the rankings, it makes sense that U11 is at the highest level and U9 at the lowest. U11 not only has strong fighters but their civilization looks pretty advanced as well. U9 has failed to develop any significant advances in their civilization, and their fighters are mediocre at best (manga).

Out of the universes exempt from participating, U12 was the one that had developed a functioning time machine in the current timeline, so it can be assumed that they're very advanced. The fighters, however, arent probably as strong as Jiren and U7's. So from this we can assume that intelligence/knowledge weights more than actual fighting power. So you have many advanced planets, even with weak fighters, then your universe would have a higher mortal level.

This is all speculation from the evidence we have, and I doubt it will ever be explained in detail how exactly Mortal Levels work, but can still explain why U7 and U6 have the strongest fighters despite not having the highest mortal levels. Or you can just say that Saiyans are arguably the strongest race in the universe

[SidVicious]

Spoiler for Spoiler for the next chapter::

Gohan x Kefla = Double KO.

[Tong]

yooooooooooooooo

Spoiler:

ROSHI THROWING HANDS WITH JIREN

[Diluc]

Originally Posted by Tong

yooooooooooooooo

Spoiler:

ROSHI THROWING HANDS WITH JIREN

............................................
Now that is a joke

[Kanon]

Spoiler for 39:

I was wondering what Roshi could possibly do considering the opponents left, but I never thought I would see that

Ultra instinct Roshi?!

[grecefar]

okey now I say the manga went to hell, there are just things that can't happend...

[n0m@n]

People were complaining about how overpowered Roshi was in the anime.
But the manga made the anime Roshi look like a normal old man lol.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

People were complaining about how overpowered Roshi was in the anime.
But the manga made the anime Roshi look like a normal old man lol.

lol, "OLD MAN ROSHI!!!!".

[alex_drian]

...wow. I..I just can't...I don't have the words to describe this.

[Kanon]

Is there a summary out that explains how the hell that even happened?

[Sixth]

So it turned out that Goku is using SSBKK in the manga.

So much for SSBKK being a Toei creation.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Sixth

So it turned out that Goku is using SSBKK in the manga.

So much for SSBKK being a Toei creation.

It could be a Toei creation that Toyotaro decided to borrow. We may get to see SSB Evolution in the manga too.

[BladeMancer]

It's confirmed. It's not SSBKK but rather it's Goku letting all his energy fly in a short moment to power up. It's like Kaioken, but isn't.

[Kanon]

Chapter's out.

Gohan and Kefla's fight was absolutely terrible. They exchange a few blows that don't hurt either of them, the scene switches to another fight and the next thing you know, they're both barely standing and Kefla is admitting defeat (which seems out of character, not that we got time to know her in the manga). Yep, Gohan's big fight was freaking off screened. It also ends in a double KO just like the anime.

Roshi against Kersheral was cool. No complaints there. Roshi vs Jiren though, is still bullshit. I don't care that he has some crude version of UI that came out of absolutely nowhere (he never displayed anything like that in DB, and he never trained with Poppo who was the first character to display something close to UI), there's no way a character so much stronger and faster than him would be unable to hit him. Jiren should have been able to adjust even faster than he did.

The call-back to Goku's previous masters was nice, but Goku suddenly unlocking UI Omen just from remembering what they said was super anti-climactic. And it means that Goku was actually a shitty student, since all he needed to do to unlock this godly skill was to listen, apparently. I hated that the first round against Jiren was just a redux of his battle against Frieza in the anime, but I liked the concept of having to "break through your shell" better. UI Omen's debut itself was also far more impressive in the anime. Here he dodged one attack and that was it. Roshi actually did better than him.

And about the Kaoiken, it's pretty unclear. Tenshinhan says it's similar and then Krillin talks as if Goku really is using Kaoiken.

As for things I really liked: Champa thanking Vados, and Vados looking lonely after he's gone. Frieza not giving a damn and just resting while the others are fighting.

[Mad Pierrot]

It really feels like Toyotaro wanted flesh out Goku's characterization with this chapter considering he even made Ultra Instinct have at least some build up. Then again, they went too far with Roshi's strength when he faced Jiren. While Roshi is still the same as usual, he gave Goku propial mentoring to make his student become more developed, the Ultra Instinct was once again anticlimatic due to its short length.