2010-12-10, 21:05 | Link #10541 | |
Senior Member
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Thank you for not living here. We don't need your kind of votes. And what Frenchie is saying, is that these kids have a right to something, that's never been given before, and shouldn't be given. He is creating rights out of thin air. |
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2010-12-10, 21:31 | Link #10543 |
Observer/Bookman wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
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What Justin is saying is: So what if you're not responsible? We want you to go back and come again for a second try the legal way, preferably with your parents.
And on the Nobel issue: That's what I call doing a "China".
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2010-12-10, 21:41 | Link #10544 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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i change my mind
i'm game if they revise it further example... lower the age cap for eligibility for the DREAM Act to 21 (not 29) on the date of enactment and gotta make it narrow as possible to keep out potential fraudsters and those who 'game the system' |
2010-12-10, 22:14 | Link #10545 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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In reality, whether you're responsible or not, you still need to do it the legal way as dictated by the system you want to enter. Of course I have a leaning towards some degrees of allowance and leniency for people who do not possess or have the capacity to exercise complete control and understanding for their actions.
So as per that law, I personally think that the children should still have to do things according to the INS protocols, but to a method that is different and less stringent than that of their parents.
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2010-12-10, 23:14 | Link #10547 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2010-12-10, 23:18 | Link #10548 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 35
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All you guys are idiots who think that the Children of immigrants legal or not should pay for the sins of their parents. It's like having to pay debts of the dead. All the things you are in favor of are to punish people with ability to change their circumstance. I bet most of those kids are pissed off at their parents for putting them in such a predicament. I'm a legal resident alien now but I too had to go through a lengthy expensive process that cost nearly 30k dollars just so that we could properly navigate the legal minefield that is the naturalization process. I mean if you think about the difficulties of making it in America already and then you want to punish the kids it just seems asinine when you can gain these skilled people to add to the work force. I don't endorse illegal immigration but punishing those without the power to affect the change they want is unjust, laws are meant to be just, but then again in Corporatist America, laws are meant to keep the plebeians in check.
@xellos^, their just like my parents, wanting to give me the best chances to succeed, why should the children of these parents be punished? Why? Because they can't control what their parents do, they can't do anything without their parents. |
2010-12-10, 23:21 | Link #10549 | |
Dictadere~!
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: On the front lines, fighting for inderpendence.
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This contributed nothing; it's already obvious that they knew what they were doing. Mexicans aren't dumbasses, as so many Americans seem to think.
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2010-12-11, 01:51 | Link #10550 |
Senior Member
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Because the children are not suppose to be here! They are here illegally! ILLEGALLY. Do these words mean NOTHING to you all? They have no right to be here. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Whether they had a say in what their parents did or not, is IRRELEVANT! They are still here illegally!
The fact that I have to repeat the word illegal a thousand times, and people still argue with me about that word.... It's absolutely amazing to me that illegal means NOTHING to you guys. |
2010-12-11, 01:54 | Link #10551 |
Dictadere~!
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: On the front lines, fighting for inderpendence.
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So, if I was kicked out of a plane with no room to parachute back to my side of the river, and accidentally (and unavoidably) land on the wrong side, I'm there illegally?
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2010-12-11, 02:05 | Link #10552 |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
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Illegality and accountability these days more often than not is still based on capacity to control and comprehend said actions. There's a reason why the law delineates adults and children between those who SHOULD know right from wrong and by extension cannot claim ignorance of the law (adults), and those who are deemed not to fully understand just what the hell is happening and what they are "doing" (children). There's a reason child cases and issues are handled very, VERY differently from adult cases.
The problem with the law is that it makes no distinction between what the law has established that delineates a child who doesn't really know right from wrong, illegal from legal, from an adult who has no excuse not to know or to break them due to ignorance. It aims to treat children like adults, fully accountable for their acts in a land where child crimes are special cases handled by completely different courts. So then, double standard. Prosecute the adult because by law they are doing something illegal and thus held accountable for their actions. Is the child of an illegal deemed and treated completely different from the child of a natural born or naturalized and subject to completely different laws?
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2010-12-11, 02:10 | Link #10553 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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There are a lot of things that are illegal in ways that are stupid and poorly executed. I sympathize with my friends who are trying to "do it" the right way (most are professionals) and being screwed around with. I also sympathize with those who don't have those resources and have to try it the "wrong way" because our rules are a byzantine mess of stupidity, xenophobia, and other factors. I'm really unhappy at a Mexico that seems utterly broken in regard to its people.
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2010-12-11, 02:13 | Link #10554 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I don't think of it as punishing the kids. If parents steal a car and give it to their child, repossessing the car is not punishing the child for the sins of the parents. It's simply putting a wrong to right.
That said, I'd favor a middle road where illegal immigrants had the opportunity to become legal, but by jumping through even more hoops (including, if at all practical, forced labor) than the ones who came legally - because, like Justinstrife, the idea of rewarding bad behavior doesn't sit well with me. |
2010-12-11, 02:24 | Link #10556 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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The INS and immigration authorities in the US have never been anything but a royal mess and an extension of the popular xenophobia of whatever era you pick.
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2010-12-11, 02:45 | Link #10557 | ||
Shougi Génération
Graphic Designer
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You're not making their parents legal. Quote:
What's really sad is that you claim that your taxes are paying for these illegal aliens. What exactly are you paying for them? Medicaid is a program that they aren't eligible for, just like they aren't eligible for a greencard or a citizenship. Public schools are mostly paid for via property taxes, and they only account for a small percentage. Public schools are also meant to check for residence in the US. They also happen to provide education to students that aren't necessarily illegal aliens. Did that idea ever strike you? So given all this, what portion of your taxes is really being used to support them? These illegal aliens also have some basic needs and pay for living space, food, drink and commodities. They are a market of their own. Such a claim of a minority being a burden on the majority you could perhaps make in France, but not in the US. The very concept is just laughable.
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2010-12-11, 03:00 | Link #10558 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2010-12-11, 03:04 | Link #10560 | |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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If you are against a certain category of immigrants state some hands on reasons (that do not use the indirection of law), for example: [sarcasm] I am against the law, because it would give more incentives for parents to try to come to the USA in order to give their children a better chance to succeed in their lifes. I am also against the law, since this will further contribute to the erosion of law enforcement in the border regions. Furthermore I am against that law, because it allows some businesses on the US' side of the border region to benefit from very low paid workers. I'ld rather like those businesses move to e.g. Mexico and other low paying countries where they are out of my sight and pay their dirty money (taxes) to other countries (they don't pay many taxes in the USA to begin with, so its no big loss). I am against the law, because I like to have a heritage based adavantage over people from elsewhere. The principle of free/deregulated markets and tax cuts must stop when it starts to hurt my competitivness. So, I am basically against this law, because in my heart I already realized that the fairytale of equal chances and everyone can become middle class and the markets can grow endlessly doesn't work - which I am conciously denying of course. Since wealth distribution isn't fair at all, I want to preserve my advantages and hence my point of view in the matter. [/sarcasm]
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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