Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Comartemis]

All the more a reason not to go off on a wild tangent and blindly slap a SSS label on her. We don't know what she's capable off.

End of the World struck me as being about SS-rank or so, considering that it supposedly defies the laws of thermodynamics (if wikipedia can be trusted on the subject); sounds like it has quite a bit more punch than Hayate's Atem des Eis to me, or at the least is a more focused version of it. And Eva almost casually snapped that thing off without breaking a sweat. Maybe she's closer to SS+ with Magia Erebea being something like her Limit Break? That'd still make her one of the strongest mages in the known multiverse by a fair margin, considering that the power difference between ranks seems to increase after you hit AAA.

The fact that the TSAB's generic devices are Raising Heart type devices pretty much confirms Raising Heart was a standard TSAB device prior to her powerups, methinks.

True... but I can't shake the feeling that there's something special about RH that we haven't seen yet. Sort of like how Kha insinuated that there was a fragment of papa Testarossa hanging around in Bardiche in Rebuilt, I think there's some hidden depth to Raising Heart that has yet to be revealed. She's the only device in the whole series to require an activation incantation, yet she's apparently just like hundreds of similar weapons in the TSA? Surely not every intelligent device not wielded by a main character needs an activation code? Something doesn't add up here, and I don't think the cause is one of 7Arcs' infamous inconsistencies.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Originally Posted by Keroko

No, not really. Okay, no problems here, I was a bit concerned that this skill would allow mooks to block Starlight Breakers, but that's been ironed out.

.

Theoretically, a mook COULD tank Starlight Breaker... but in order to manage the resulting waste heat... the mook would have to have antifreeze IVed into their bloodstream, and be wearing armor made entirely out of radiators.

Of course, someone set up like that would be ineffective at any actual combat. Being unable to really move and all...

EDIT: Funny image:

This would probably look like a megaman stage boss.

Dunnnn nun nun nunnn!!!

[RADIATOR MAN!]
"Your magic can't hurt me!"

doo do... dooo do... do do dobidedooooo!!!!!

[Keroko]

Radiator man: "Your magic can't hurt me!"

Nanoha: "... But that suit looks really difficult to move around in."

Radiator man: "Er..."

Nanoha: I'll just be moving on to that door behind you. Nice talking to you!

Radiator man: "..."

Originally Posted by Comartemis

End of the World struck me as being about SS-rank or so, considering that it supposedly defies the laws of thermodynamics (if wikipedia can be trusted on the subject); sounds like it has quite a bit more punch than Hayate's Atem des Eis to me, or at the least is a more focused version of it. And Eva almost casually snapped that thing off without breaking a sweat. Maybe she's closer to SS+ with Magia Erebea being something like her Limit Break? That'd still make her one of the strongest mages in the known multiverse by a fair margin, considering that the power difference between ranks seems to increase after you hit AAA.

SS-rank when she goes all out sounds good. Heck, even we don't know what an SS-rank at full power is like, Hayate never did do something beyond S-rank.

Originally Posted by Comartemis

True... but I can't shake the feeling that there's something special about RH that we haven't seen yet. Sort of like how Kha insinuated that there was a fragment of papa Testarossa hanging around in Bardiche in Rebuilt, I think there's some hidden depth to Raising Heart that has yet to be revealed. She's the only device in the whole series to require an activation incantation, yet she's apparently just like hundreds of similar weapons in the TSA? Surely not every intelligent device not wielded by a main character needs an activation code? Something doesn't add up here, and I don't think the cause is one of 7Arcs' infamous inconsistencies.

Bah, the incantation was made back when Nanoha was still a traditional Magical Girl show, we shouldn't take the incantation seriously (especially since Nanoha dropped it after, what, one use?) I'd rather not be stuck with the headache explaining why a modern day standart device was wielded by bodyguards 300 years ago.

Yeah, I am totally lacking that feeling you have.

[Comartemis]

SS-rank when she goes all out sounds good. Heck, even we don't know what an SS-rank at full power is like, Hayate never did do something beyond S-rank.

Actually come to think of it I'd rather Eva's rank remain an unknown, part of the reason I labeled her a SSS-rank to start with; she's awe-inspiring because she doesn't appear to have any limits to her power, and I'd rather not lose that by putting a rank on her and saying "these are her limits". Even SS-rank compares her to Hayate ("synthetic" SS-rank, which I take to mean that she has the power but not the skill to back it up), where SSS puts her in a league of her own, which is exactly where I think she belongs. Maybe Kenny will get around to showing us Eva at full power sometime in the future, but until then I guess 'unknown' will have to do for Eva's rank.

Bah, the incantation was made back when Nanoha was still a traditional Magical Girl show, we shouldn't take the incantation seriously (especially since Nanoha dropped it after, what, one use?) I'd rather not be stuck with the headache explaining why a modern day standart device was wielded by bodyguards 300 years ago.

Fair enough, but at some point I intend to delve into RH's history; she may not be a Belkan weapon, but she's been around the block a few times, so to speak.

[Arkeus]

Gotta agree with Keroko.

Also, i have got the feeling Belka MAD themselves. I may be wrong, but they seemed *way* above midchilda in tech, and it seemed that mid didn't really have much solid facts on things like the cartirdge system of belkan style, hence the new "Belkan" style.

Remmeber that things like Genetically modified people were common in Belka, and there seem to be some type of "Ancient Wisdom" thing of Belka theme going on.

As for the activation code, it should be like a login password in windows. Not useful for someone like Nanoha whose affinity for RH is extremely high.

Com: Actually, SS-Rank remains unknown too. If you are going to have Eva being unknown because we don't see upper lmit to her awesomeness, you'll have to do the same for Eva. Heck, we haven't Seen *Nanoha* go all out in a Non-AMF environment.

[Keroko]

Nah, Belka and Mid were about equal in technology (otherwise we'd have a hard time explaining why in the world Mid even won the war) its just that the focuss has been a bit much on the Belkan side lately. I myself would love to see a Lost Logia weapon of Mid's side of the war being found.

Mid did have knowledge on the Belkan system (they even had a serial number for the Cartridge system) they just didn't use it as much. Also, Belkan doesn't mean you automatically use Cartridges. Neither Carim, Acous, Hayate, Shamal, Zafira or Zest use Cartridges.

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Actually come to think of it I'd rather Eva's rank remain an unknown, part of the reason I labeled her a SSS-rank to start with; she's awe-inspiring because she doesn't appear to have any limits to her power, and I'd rather not lose that by putting a rank on her and saying "these are her limits". Even SS-rank compares her to Hayate ("synthetic" SS-rank, which I take to mean that she has the power but not the skill to back it up), where SSS puts her in a league of her own, which is exactly where I think she belongs. Maybe Kenny will get around to showing us Eva at full power sometime in the future, but until then I guess 'unknown' will have to do for Eva's rank.

That's a good decision. Unknown untill we get a clear chart on things.

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Fair enough, but at some point I intend to delve into RH's history; she may not be a Belkan weapon, but she's been around the block a few times, so to speak.

Well, I don't particularely like this course of action, but there's nothing to prove otherwise either...

Ah, what the heck. This thread could use some spicy conspiracy theories. Show me what you got!

[Arkeus]

Keroko: did it ever say midchilda won the war, or that they were the only two participants?

Also, they did have a serial number for the "Cartridge" part, but no idea on how to implement it (it took them a week to do so in a lesser way). It seemed to me it was all theorotical, and once the Knights came and information was shared, that they gave information on Belkan magic (hence the "Neo-Belkan" style).

Or at least that's what i got.^^

This is all conjectures, after all.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

Keroko: did it ever say midchilda won the war, or that they were the only two participants?

Concidering Mid is now the mainly used magic style through the multiverse and Mid is responsible for the TSAB, I say its a safe bet that Mid won the war.

Whether there were only two participants, I don't know.

Originally Posted by Arkeus

Also, they did have a serial number for the "Cartridge" part, but no idea on how to implement it (it took them a week to do so in a lesser way). It seemed to me it was all theorotical, and once the Knights came and information was shared, that they gave information on Belkan magic (hence the "Neo-Belkan" style).

Well, yeah, it took them a week to implement it, because both Raising Heart and Bardiche were Mid Childan devices. They weren't build with the idea of Cartidge system in mind. I'm no mechanic, but that means they had to virtually re-design both devices! I'm amazed they did that and made it work, in just one week.

But Belkan magic was used by Mid long before Nanoha and co. Zest and Quint are only two examples of Belkan users, and Vice was a Mid-user using Cartridges.

Originally Posted by Arkeus

This is all conjectures, after all.

*nod* True.

[Arkeus]

Originally Posted by Keroko

But Belkan magic was used by Mid long before Nanoha and co. Zest and Quint are only two examples of Belkan users, and Vice was a Mid-user using Cartridges.



*nod* True.

Really? I always took it that they were part of the wave of users emerging after the Book of Darkness incident.

Also, isn't Belka user super rare before? Hence the remark about Carim and her brother having Rare Belkan Magic.

yeah, i may be wrong, but i really think Belka's Defeat was more complicated (and that the raddle had a role to play, hence the "Destroying of a world" remark).

[Comartemis]

Ah, what the heck. This thread could use some spicy conspiracy theories. Show me what you got!

Nothing yet on RH’s history, I’m afraid, but I think I’ve finally got a solid lock on the course of events of the first season of Comacanon.

Spoiler for Remix Season 1.5:

Let’s start this off with Alex, the 10 year-old son of one of Mundus Magicus’s most revered (and single) treasure hunters and dungeon crawlers, Iris (insert cool-sounding last name here). Iris has accumulated a massive fortune of lost treasures over the course of her career, enough to set a person up for life if they were to sell them all. So when Iris disappears on a trek into the depths of the ruins of Vespertatia, scores of ne’er-do-wells start harassing Alex, who is rumored to have been left a copy of the key to Iris’s subspace vault. He doesn’t, actually; the “key” is actually one of a pair of enchanted pendants Alex and Iris used to keep track of each other on dungeon crawls. When the beacons are activated they glow softly so long as the other wearer is still alive and the glow intensifies greatly in one direction when the beacons are near each other. Since Alex’s beacon still shines, he’s certain that Iris is still alive. But the wild rumors concerning Iris’s death and the key to her fortune force Alex to leave Mundus Magicus for the relatively safer (if also quite boring) realm of Earth.

Iris really isn’t dead, by the way, but she had a little run-in with Fate Averruncus in the depths of Vespertatia, and now she’s not much more than a lawn ornament. Alex is going to have a very interesting reaction when he runs into her statue during the Magic World arc.

Despite being a seasoned mage in his own right (taught by his dear mother, who was a notorious steel mage), Alex encounters a bit of trouble on the way in the form of a particularly nasty demon summoner who forces Alex to take an older transport path to Earth, one that hasn’t seen much use since the Earth-side end of the portal became a major tourist attraction. The path breaks down mid-way through the jump, and instead of winding up on the western slope of Mt. Fuji, Alex winds up a good distance south of there in the coastal town of Uminari City.

Now the series picks up in the summer immediately following the events of the first season. Nanoha and the Takamachi family are in Hong Kong for a week or two, visiting Nanoha’s aunt (Misato Mikami, one of the Triangle Heart characters who didn’t show up in MSLN), and Suzuka and Arisa pretty much have the whole place to themselves. One evening Arisa is out in the gardens behind her estate and finds an unconscious Alex sprawled out on the ground beneath a tree. She summons one of the servants and pulls him inside, but when Alex awakens he rebuffs her attempts to help him and tries to depart immediately. Arisa follows to ask him what the hell his problem is when the two are suddenly attacked by several lesser demons sent after Alex by his friend the summoner. With his strength sapped by the busted teleport, Alex has no choice but to put his fate in Arisa’s hands by engaging a Pactio with her (Alex is capable of forming the seal without an ermine around to act as a mediator). Arisa awkwardly fights off the demons with her newly-boosted strength and her artifact, which is probably a sword of some kind, maybe a magic sword with a fire element tacked on to it in reference to the Burning Arisa doujins… or maybe it’s the friggin’ Sword of Light, I dunno yet.

The next portion of the story happens much like the beginning of Nanoha Classic does, with Alex explaining his back story, character interactions building up Alex’s and Arisa’s relationship with each other, and Arisa testing her newfound strength on a series of Monsters of the Week. Not the most original plot line, I know, but MotWs are a tried-and-true method of teaching a newly minted magical girl the extent of her abilities. I may even make some subtle nods to Sailor Moon here by re-using youma designs or some such.

Eventually the summoner decides that enough is enough and comes to Uminari City himself, kidnaps Suzuka (who he knows by now to be of great importance to both Alex and Arisa) and forces a fully-recovered Alex and Arisa into a showdown that will push them to the limits of their abilities. This will probably result in Suzuka making a pactio with Alex as well, though the circumstances and Suzuka’s artifact still need some more thinking on.

A day or two later Nanoha comes home and we get a brief timeskip into A’s.

[Kha]

Originally Posted by Arkeus

uh?

Spoiler:

Wasn't it a week? and what plague are you talking about?

Spoiler for Negiha:

Yeah I got misled by Gandolfini. Didn't notice the change in tense.

One week is still possible though. That plague is Kha's problem only.

Originally Posted by dkellis

Spoiler:

Arisa scrambled for cover as more energy bolts flew in her general direction. The oversized sword on her back shifted awkwardly, and she angrily slapped it back into position. The ground shook with another nearby explosion, and she stumbled; cursing, she turned the fall into a roll, and skidded behind a sturdy-looking pile of rubble that used to be a meter-thick bulkhead.

"Glad you could join us," the silver-haired Enforcer said, far too cheerfully for someone who looked as badly injured as she did. One leg had been set in a makeshift splint, and she was clutching a cloth-wrapped object tightly to herself.

"Who the hell are you?"

"Ivey de Lorien, TSAB. The one with the stick is Reiz Astra, same." Reiz nodded nervously in greeting, gripping her quarterstaff Device tightly.

"Where's Hayate? Where's Fate? Where's Nanoha?"

"Ah, the Lieutenant-Colonel's whereabouts are unknown," Reiz said. "Which is, um, kind of the problem..."

"Hello there, my little chickadees!" A singsong voice floated through the wrecked corridors through hidden speakers. "Don't make me come look for you!"

"And who's that?" Arisa demanded.

"The infamous dimensional criminal Quattro, formerly of Scaglietti's Numbers, currently going solo," Ivey replied promptly. "Or so we believe, anyway. She appears to be entirely familiar with you, at least."

"Why? I've never even met her before!"

"Uh," Reiz said diffidently, "I didn't catch your name, ma'am."

"... until recently, I was just Arisa Bannings," Arisa muttered. "Now, I'm not so sure."

The ground trembled again. "Your arrival was either most fortuitous or most unfortunate," Ivey continued. "We certainly weren't expecting someone to teleport right into the middle of the facility."

"I'm sorry! I didn't know this was where Apollo wanted to send me!" Arisa shifted the sword's position on her back again. "He told me this was where Suzuka was..."

"Incoming!" Reiz was on instant alert, even as Ivey corrected, "Hold up, it's a friendly!"

Arisa blinked as a figure materialized out of invisibility. "Haven't I met you before... Subaru, wasn't it?"

Subaru gave her a quick grin. "That's right. It's been a long time, Arisa."

"What's happening here? Where's Nanoha?"

Subaru's face fell. "Nanoha... Nanoha hasn't been seen since, uh, since you left the 97th Non-Administered World. We think she went looking for you, but..."

"Well I certainly haven't seen her!" Arisa rubbed her temples. "Okay, wait. Calm down, I know I can get through this. What's our situation?"

"Tea sent me here to support the 37th," Subaru explained. "Erio's out looking for Cinque and Nove, and Caro and Vice are with Fate. Tea says she thinks she can get through whatever's jamming our mage communications, but it'll take a while. Uh, I didn't know you'd be here, Arisa, or I'd have asked Tea to keep in touch, so she could cloak you and bring you back as well."

"No funky magical telepathy, remember?" Arisa pointed out.

"Oh." Subaru blushed. "Oops."

"Who else is with Lanster?" Ivey asked.

"Ginga and Arf. I don't know where Inspector Acous or Sister Schach are. And Lieutenant-Colonel Yagami hasn't reported in at all, nor have the Wolkenritter." Subaru counted on her fingers. "I think that's all?"

There was a great rhythmic rumbling, as though an impressively large number of boulders decided to tumble down the same incline at once.

"Oh, right," Subaru added, in the sudden silence after. "You're surrounded by a lot of drones."

Ivey stared at her. "Be precise, Nakajima. How many, and what sort?"

"The big rolly ball types," Subaru said, "and maybe fifty of them?"

"What-" Arisa clamped her hands over her mouth. In a lower voice, she said, "What? Is that woman mad?"

Ivey grimaced. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in it."

Reiz poked her head above the safety of the wall, and ducked down just as quickly. "Yes, we're definitely surrounded." She checked her cartridges. "I'm almost spent."

"Me too," Subaru admitted. "This was supposed to be a quick extraction, but I didn't expect so many drones here."

"I think it's safe to say that Quattro knows exactly where we are," Ivey said.

Arisa unslung her sword. "Then it's down to a fight."

"No offence, Miss Bannings, but do you actually know how to use that thing?"

"Well enough." Arisa dug through her belt pouch. "What are those things weak against?"

"Physical trauma, mostly," Reiz said. "Magic doesn't work too well against them, unless you overload their anti-magic field."

Arisa slotted the cylinder into the hilt. "The next time I see Nanoha, I'm going to hit her, again. This is not the normal life that I wanted."

The hidden speakers crackled to life again. "I have you completely surrounded," Quattro announced. "Give up the book and I might let you crawl away alive."

"Book?" Subaru said, puzzled. "What book?"

Ivey coughed. "It's a long story." She carefully unwrapped the object she had been holding, just enough to reveal the unmistakeable crest on the front of the book.

Arisa and Subaru stared. "Why," Arisa asked softly, "are you holding onto the Book of Darkness?"

"As I said, it's a long story."

"It's a fair deal," Quattro continued unseen. "You won't find a better offer anywhere else!"

Ivey's laugh had an edge to it. "Uh, no," she called out. "No means no, equals no. Twice I state: I refuse you, I deny you. And three times I say and done: bite me, Quattro."

"Can that Quattro woman even hear us?" Arisa said.

"I have no idea," Ivey admitted, "but that felt good."

"Wait, I think I'm getting something," Subaru said, holding a hand to her head. "Tea's trying to tell me... reinforcements? And a signal. We're supposed to wait for a signal, and then get out of here."

"What reinforcements?" Reiz asked.

"What signal?" Arisa wondered.

"I AM THE LOOSE CHANGE IN THE VENDING MACHINE OF JUSTICE!"

"That signal," Ivey noted, as the sound of a hundred energy blasts impacting on an impenetrable barrier made it almost too loud to think. Above her, Lumina Celeste, the Unyielding Ace, flared incandescent as she poured all her magical power into the shield protecting the group.

Reiz and Arisa quickly bundled Ivey onto Subaru's back. Subaru made sure that Ivey was secure, and gave Arisa a nod of thanks. "Mach Calibre, go!"

"Can you escape by yourself?" Reiz asked Arisa.

"Technically, I've never really gotten the hang of all the zipping around and-"

"Never fear!" a voice from ground level exclaimed. "One rescue coming up!"

Arisa swung her sword on reflex, and almost decapitated the head and torso poking out of the ground.

"Hey, watch it!" Sein yelled.

"Sein? I thought you were working against us!"

"Uh, no. Very, very no." Sein grabbed Arisa's arms. "Explanations later! Dive now!"

The last thing Arisa saw was Reiz's astonished face, just before the ground swallowed her.

I felt Subaru's dialogue was a little strange for her personality. Instead of "Big rolly ball types" I'd say "Gimongous ball types" but I guess its just me.

And that quote has to be made into a plaque. XD

This post has done Arisa and Sein justice. Sankt Kaiser approves.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Spoiler for yes:

It was just a week.

Please reread properly, Kha.

Yeeeeap

Originally Posted by Keroko

I still fully enjoy posting here, maybe I'll start bringing somewhat of the 'crazy' back into the thread when I fire up the new version of Uomo (poor guy gets Rebuilt so many times ) This time with more Nove and even somewhat of a trap-disarnament. That, and I'll finaly start writing kinship, a story fully focussed on the Sentoukijin in Nanoha.

I just wish I got the time to post something significant. ><

Originally Posted by Keroko

Week. And there hardly is enough time to see him do anything, methinks.

Spoiler for Kha's Plague:

The Plague's infection accelerates as Kha uses the daemonic magic. And since in that future without Team Negi, he fought alone and blew all cooldowns and limiters, allowing it to spread rapidly.

1 year or 1 week, I can always make the Plague take over earlier once the Magic Tree loses power and stops slowing the Plague. =3

I've changed some events slightly. What the reader will see is that as Team Negi advances, something kills the mages they KO'd or passed. What the group eventually will see is a bone dragon rather than a living one, and after it gets stuck, Kha darts through and is stalled by Keroko until the group is ready to Timejump. His corrupted state then known to all.

Given this, what would Keroko's response be?

[Aaron008R]

Other comments later, but...

Originally Posted by Keroko

Nah, Belka and Mid were about equal in technology (otherwise we'd have a hard time explaining why in the world Mid even won the war) its just that the focuss has been a bit much on the Belkan side lately. I myself would love to see a Lost Logia weapon of Mid's side of the war being found.

Fufufufufufu...... >>>:3

That's one of the points of GenerationS in the first place, since the enemy this time are all pure Mid-Childan style and tech (aside from Grandis). Naturally, Lost Logia will be involved. =3

[tshouryuu]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

End of the World struck me as being about SS-rank or so, considering that it supposedly defies the laws of thermodynamics (if wikipedia can be trusted on the subject); sounds like it has quite a bit more punch than Hayate's Atem des Eis to me, or at the least is a more focused version of it. And Eva almost casually snapped that thing off without breaking a sweat. Maybe she's closer to SS+ with Magia Erebea being something like her Limit Break? That'd still make her one of the strongest mages in the known multiverse by a fair margin, considering that the power difference between ranks seems to increase after you hit AAA.

I think you're vastly overestimating Eva's power. If anything, [End of the World] is sort of similar to [Eternal Coffin] both in power of the spell, the target size and the event that required the casting. Although Chrono is skilled in temperature manipulation magics, and has the Durendal to help him, he is just 15 years old at that time and only have a few years worth of experience.

Eva on the other hand has no such fancy devices but her affinity is Darkness and Ice and she has at minimum 400 years of experience. If not for the difference in Magic Types, I would say Eva is WEAKER then Chrono when Unseal without using Magia Erebea. Using that however is probably sort of like Blaster Mode for Nanoha, massive powerup but dangerous draw backs.

In the end, I believe Eva is about a S- ranker at best, Stronger than Chrono but not as strong as Nanoha.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by tshouryuu

I think you're vastly overestimating Eva's power. If anything, [End of the World] is sort of similar to [Eternal Coffin] both in power of the spell, the target size and the event that required the casting. Although Chrono is skilled in temperature manipulation magics, and has the Durendal to help him, he is just 15 years old at that time and only have a few years worth of experience.

Eva on the other hand has no such fancy devices but her affinity is Darkness and Ice and she has at minimum 400 years of experience. If not for the difference in Magic Types, I would say Eva is WEAKER then Chrono when Unseal without using Magia Erebea. Using that however is probably sort of like Blaster Mode for Nanoha, massive powerup but dangerous draw backs.

In the end, I believe Eva is about a S- ranker at best, Stronger than Chrono but not as strong as Nanoha.

That's pretty much my assessment as well, though I've gotten into heated debates with some about it too...

[Kikaifan]

Meh, I'd say Evangeline is in Signum territory- tons of experience, massive CC skill and attack power (especially with Magia Erebea) and she can still pull out ridiculously strong nukes if she really needs to... she just doesn't do it much 'cause it's less fun.

And then she has her regeneration.

[Comartemis]

Originally Posted by tshouryuu

I think you're vastly overestimating Eva's power. If anything, [End of the World] is sort of similar to [Eternal Coffin] both in power of the spell, the target size and the event that required the casting. Although Chrono is skilled in temperature manipulation magics, and has the Durendal to help him, he is just 15 years old at that time and only have a few years worth of experience.

Eva on the other hand has no such fancy devices but her affinity is Darkness and Ice and she has at minimum 400 years of experience. If not for the difference in Magic Types, I would say Eva is WEAKER then Chrono when Unseal without using Magia Erebea. Using that however is probably sort of like Blaster Mode for Nanoha, massive powerup but dangerous draw backs.

In the end, I believe Eva is about a S- ranker at best, Stronger than Chrono but not as strong as Nanoha.

The problem with this is that you're operating on the assumption that End of the World is Eva's most powerful spell, which doesn't seem likely considering that she wasn't even remotely tired from casting it, which you would think a "most powerful" spell would do. As a matter of fact, not even seconds later she instantly regenerates from having a stone spike shoved through her chest, something which she says "tires her". Yet she doesn't appear to be fatigued or tired at all even from that.

For all we know, End of the World could be the weakest of Eva's high-end spells; there are simply too many question marks that come up when the specifics of Eva's power level gets discussed. I'm having enough problems trying to figure the rest of the Negima cast into the pecking order of Nanoha's power levels, so for the sake of maintaining the status quo (the mentor with no equal), Eva's spot at the top of the dog pile is reserved until I see evidence that she actually has limits when unsealed and fighting for real, which will be difficult to acquire considering that she's never fought all-out.

[Saint X]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Nah, Belka and Mid were about equal in technology (otherwise we'd have a hard time explaining why in the world Mid even won the war) its just that the focuss has been a bit much on the Belkan side lately. I myself would love to see a Lost Logia weapon of Mid's side of the war being found.

Ah, what the heck. This thread could use some spicy conspiracy theories. Show me what you got!

What i can think of on those two parts of the quote is that Raising Heart was a Lost Logia Weapon Developed During the war- perhaps even earlier- and it was probably planned to be used against a Cradle-Class Ship.

But that's me

*rummages thru his mental vault for ideas*

[tshouryuu]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

The problem with this is that you're operating on the assumption that End of the World is Eva's most powerful spell, which doesn't seem likely considering that she wasn't even remotely tired from casting it, which you would think a "most powerful" spell would do. As a matter of fact, not even seconds later she instantly regenerates from having a stone spike shoved through her chest, something which she says "tires her". Yet she doesn't appear to be fatigued or tired at all even from that.

For all we know, End of the World could be the weakest of Eva's high-end spells; there are simply too many question marks that come up when the specifics of Eva's power level gets discussed. I'm having enough problems trying to figure the rest of the Negima cast into the pecking order of Nanoha's power levels, so for the sake of maintaining the status quo (the mentor with no equal), Eva's spot at the top of the dog pile is reserved until I see evidence that she actually has limits when unsealed and fighting for real.

I never said its her most powerful spell AT ALL. And regeneration is a different case altogether. What you are doing is basing her power based on what's totally unknown. If that's the case I can also theory craft that Starlight Breaker is Nanoha's weakest high level spell. When Eva has shown even greater power, its not too late to revise up her power.

Edit: About regeneration, Eva is a vampire with high regenerative abilities that is part of her vampirism and not connected to her magic. I think you forgot that Nanoha, a HUMAN survived a strike through the chest as well on a mission with Vita, without regeneration. If anything, Nanoha surviving it is a greater feat then Eva.

[Comartemis]

What you are doing is basing her power based on what's totally unknown.

But it's not a total unknown. If we go by your assumption that End of the World is only on par with Eternal Coffin, then we know that Eva is capable of using spells in the S-to-S+ range. We also know from observation that she can cast one such spell without even starting to breath very hard, indicating that she could probably cast several such spells in quick succession before needing to take a breather; exactly how many "several" indicates is open to debate at the moment.

Taking these things into account, and accounting for her use and probable mastery of Magia Erebea, I'd pin Eva as being--at the minimum, mind you--somewhere between S+ and SS+. And that's not even accounting for her physical combat skills and other vampiric powers.

About regeneration, Eva is a vampire with high regenerative abilities that is part of her vampirism and not connected to her magic.

No, but magic is connected to a person's physical health; using magic tires you out, and Eva indicates that regenerating tires her as well. Yet she cast a high-power spell and regenerated back-to-back without expressing any kind of fatigue.

[tshouryuu]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

But it's not a total unknown. If we go by your assumption that End of the World is only on par with Eternal Coffin, then we know that Eva is capable of using spells in the S-to-S+ range. We also know from observation that she can cast one such spell without even starting to breath very hard, indicating that she could probably cast several such spells in quick succession before needing to take a breather; exactly how many "several" indicates is open to debate at the moment.

Taking these things into account, and accounting for her use and probable mastery of Magia Erebea, I'd pin Eva as being--at the minimum, mind you--somewhere between S+ and SS+. And that's not even accounting for her physical combat skills and other vampiric powers.


No, but magic is connected to a person's physical health; using magic tires you out, and Eva indicates that regenerating tires her as well. Yet she cast a high-power spell and regenerated back-to-back without expressing any kind of fatigue.

I don't see Chrono breathing hard either casting eternal coffin. Also Hayate only got tired after casting several Hræsvelgr which is a S ranked attack as well.

And Ranks have huge gaps in the higher tiers. So Eva even with Magia Erebea and physical combat skills (Chrono also has Physical combats skills) and other Vampiric powers, which iirc, is only flight, no weakness to sunlight, not aging and regeneration, is still at best only a S- ranker at best.

You can theory craft on unknowns to your heart's content but its at best theory and at worst wild speculations on your part. I rather theory craft on known data instead of almost pure unknown data. Its hard for you to convince me and maybe others because you don't really have anything at all to back your claims of her abilities.