[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[AuraTwilight]

Originally Posted by Judoh

Tch... I totally did Shkanon-formers way before you did. It's buried in the episode 6 thread somewhere. But nobody laughed when I did it lol.

My version is way funnier.

[CrystalStarlight95]

Spoiler for Battler's Sin must be....:

What I think happened was that it really was Battler forgetting to come back. In EP7 it clearly showed Battler and Shannon/Yasu were friends, they talked so much about mysteries that Shannon began to fall in love. Battler promises to come back next year. Unfortunately, that was the year Asumu died, and thus Battler didn't come back for another 6 years. ALSO, he sent letters to everybody one year but there was no letter to Shannon (I think George hid her letter though). When Battler didn't get a response, he must've thought she didn't like him and began to forget her. OR he never considered her a first love and never sent her a letter. O_O

Spoiler for What the sin has to do with Beatrice...:

I'm actually saying this because I just like to type, that's all >_<. Anyway, after Battler doesn't come back or give a letter Shannon was very upset and that night she was "visited by Beatrice" which is equal to "Yasu-Beatrice personality coming in". Anywhos, Beato sees how depressed Shannon is and offers to carry and burden the pain of the love she has until Battler returns, because Beato wants to know what love feels like (o.o?) and thus Beato is in "love" with Battler and Shannon goes to George.

[Kirroha]

Originally Posted by CrystalStarlight95

Spoiler for Battler's Sin must be....:

What I think happened was that it really was Battler forgetting to come back. In EP7 it clearly showed Battler and Shannon/Yasu were friends, they talked so much about mysteries that Shannon began to fall in love. Battler promises to come back next year. Unfortunately, that was the year Asumu died, and thus Battler didn't come back for another 6 years. ALSO, he sent letters to everybody one year but there was no letter to Shannon (I think George hid her letter though). When Battler didn't get a response, he must've thought she didn't like him and began to forget her. OR he never considered her a first love and never sent her a letter. O_O

Pretty sure George had hidden the letter. Even after coming back after 6 years, Battler still had feelings for Shannon and felt jealous when he saw George and Shannon together. With that seen, it's hard to believe Battler didn't give Shannon a letter. Besides, George apparently already knew about Battler and Shannon's relationship, but still acted innocent when the letters were passed, and also kept insisting to shannon that battler will never return.

[Antera Caramichael]

But at the same time, Battler admit that he forgot about Shanon, and that he had no right to interfere with their love.

[CrystalStarlight95]

Battler probably knows he said bye to her and "promised" to come back, but maybe it was just a joke on his part? He was only 13 when he said it, or he was probably just so shy he said it to sound adult or something.
Battler maybe just forgot the love. George is such an ass, he maybe sent letters to Battler saying, "Oh ya, Shannon's doing great without you~ " just to sabatoge the relationship more(LOL sorry I dunno if they ever had contact, just kidding)

I hate George, if only he gave Shannon the darn letter, it would've probably changed things D:<

[Sir Andy Richter]

Why would George hide this theoretical letter?

Come on, guys. Even Battler himself said he completely forgot about her, and clearly didn't feel that way about her.

[Lumy]

Originally Posted by Sir Andy Richter

Why would George hide this theoretical letter?

Come on, guys. Even Battler himself said he completely forgot about her, and clearly didn't feel that way about her.

I don't think Battler would feel the need to write letters to everyone in his family, knowing they'd be handed to them on Rokkenjima, and decide to specifically not write to the girl he liked a lot back then... who's also living on that island.

Judging from George's dialogue when he hands Shannon the empty bag, and him mentioning again and again that Battler probably won't return, and the whole envy talk in EP7... well, at least it has been established in EP1-6 that George will go to great lengths to have Shannon for himself.

Because Shannon never replied, Battler probably thought she had lost interest and started to more or less forget about her after a while too.

[AuraTwilight]

That, and of course he'd feel like he has no right to interfere with the George/Shannon romance after six years of no contact, and he'd probably lie about the extent of how much he moved on so that Shannon doesn't feel obligated or anything.

[Used Can]

He did feel quite sad when he learned about George and Shannon's relationship. Well, this was shown on EP7's Tea Party, though.

[pikajens]

So if we establish that Battler's sin is him forgetting his love of Shannon, let's think of what would of happened if Battler didn't forget, which would probably be the marriage of Battler and Shannon. If Shannon does know where the gold is, it is probable that she'd share this info with Battler. Battler would likely share the info with his family, and decide what to do with it, (no idea what he would do with it). When this happens, the culprit's motive should be eliminated.

The problem is that several people's motives are eliminated if it is just "lol gold". George has the most prominent motive which doesn't involve gold, which is to get Shannon to love him, but it is not entirely eliminated if Shannon marries Battler. (He can still kill everyone who opposes him and force Shannon to marry him, though she'll likely refuse)

After this line of logic though I'm stuck. The only theory that makes sense to me is Kyrie killing because she wants a better life for Ange, but the entire idea of Kyrie as a culprit seems to be a way for Bern to troll Ange.

[Nontype]

Ok, but one last question after all this. Who was Claire Bernadus?

[Used Can]

To be honest, I don't think it's just "LOL Gold". In fact, this is why I think Battler being Kyrie's son is so important. Just see Kyrie's reaction when Rudolph told her the truth about Battler's birth. I think she simply just didn't care any more, and probably thought "fuck it, at least I can have that gold".

Something I find really funny, is that Rudolph's secret (the one he had to tell Kyrie and Battler) was brought up in the first story, which was supposedly written by Yasu. How would she know about that?

I believe Rudolph told Kyrie about Battler before the family conference. In addition, as it has already been theorised, Yasu had made her "mystery story" plan, and this, I believe was exploited by Kyrie. Furthermore, I don't think Kyrie just went without a plan. I believe she had already approached Yasu, and she probably threatened her by saying she'd kill Battler if she didn't cooperate. Whether this happened before Yasu had told her plan to all the adults or before (Kyrie could have figured out several things beforehand), I don't think it matters much.

I believe George could have been an accomplice. There are several things like him always setting up the rose, his constant meetings with Shannon, and several other things like the supposedly parlour door in EP1, or the meeting in the chapel in EP2, him going to the mansion without anyone noticing in EP3, and the weird thing with Jessica in EP4. I think him joining would also give a reason for Eva not to want to disclose the truth, because this way she wouldn't only be protecting Ange, but her son as well.

Whether Rudolph joined or not, I don't know. However, I wouldn't be surprised if did out of guilt.

Originally Posted by Nontype

Ok, but one last question after all this. Who was Claire Bernadus?

It's a reference to Bernard of Clairvaux, who's the guy who came up with the idea of different levels of hell, if I remember correctly, and in the Divine Comedy, he's one of the people who guided Dante.

In Umineko, this is one of the identities taken by Yasu, and her shape as that of the first witch Yasu saw herself as.

[CainSonozaki]

My take on battlers "sin"

Spoiler for Sin:

The sin wasnt just Battler leaving forgetting then coming back. It was George being all "Now that battler is back you probably dont wanna marry me and go with him now dont you" towards shanon, with her trying, and from what i read, seemingly failing to convince him otherwise. And thats why we get apathetic suicide/murderer BEatrice in the gold room later on that night.

[Kirroha]

Originally Posted by CainSonozaki

My take on battlers "sin"

Spoiler for Sin:

The sin wasnt just Battler leaving forgetting then coming back. It was George being all "Now that battler is back you probably dont wanna marry me and go with him now dont you" towards shanon, with her trying, and from what i read, seemingly failing to convince him otherwise. And thats why we get apathetic suicide/murderer BEatrice in the gold room later on that night.

Gosh I hated that side of George that's so clingy and insecure.

[AuraTwilight]

Originally Posted by CainSonozaki

My take on battlers "sin"

Spoiler for Sin:

The sin wasnt just Battler leaving forgetting then coming back. It was George being all "Now that battler is back you probably dont wanna marry me and go with him now dont you" towards shanon, with her trying, and from what i read, seemingly failing to convince him otherwise. And thats why we get apathetic suicide/murderer BEatrice in the gold room later on that night.

I don't see how we can possibly blame that on Battler. Yasuda isn't THAT out of touch with reality.

[Renall]

Battler's sin was remembering. Because he did it.

Why else is Tohya afraid of him? It's freakin' Seagull Club.

EDIT: To extend upon this idea, what Battler realizes at the end of ep5 is that he completely understands Beatrice's writing style, and thus that she is scapegoating herself. However, he also realizes the MO of the killer as presented in the various closed rooms can only match a person with an incredibly analytical mind and an intense background in mysteries. Yasu is eliminated as a culprit in his mind because she's scapegoating herself which means she didn't do it... which only leaves a single possible person: Battler himself.

Culprits: Battler, Yasu; Yasu attempts to kill herself out of guilt and take Battler with her, but he survives.
Accomplices: Nanjo, Kumasawa, Genji; all killed when convenient.

I could just be making all of this up though.

[CrystalStarlight95]

Well, damn, Renall, what if THAT was the truth..?

Ryukishi: Uh oh, I think AnimeSuki is onto me!! D:

[RockReborn]

Is it wrong that I find an answer I literally dreamt up the other night more satisfying than the actual ending? Even if Gohda was the ultimate culprit in a serious manner?

Spoiler for My dream:

Everyone in the family worked together to find the gold, and everyone was cool with it. Each adult and cousin was carrying ingots back to the guesthouse and there were no problems. However, when they entered the guesthouse , Godha was there wearing an eyepatches and stroking a cat that resembled Bern. Then he opened fire and killed six of the adults while the survivors ran for their lives. Battler, Jessica, and George hid in a room, but Yasu was there and knocked Battler out. When he woke up, he, Yasu, and Gohda were the only ones alive on the island. He looked at Yasu, who had been chained up by Gohda and asked why she helped the culprit. She said it was because of his sin, to which he responded that he hadn't forgotten about her. She then punched Gohda and told Battler to escape on the boat at the dock and he ran, looking back just to see Yasu get shot. Then he made it to the boat and escaped, but the boat capsized midway out. He woke up on a beach thinking that he was Phoenix Wright, Ace Pokemon Trainer. Then Hachijo found him.

...yeah...

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Kirroha

Pretty sure George had hidden the letter. Even after coming back after 6 years, Battler still had feelings for Shannon and felt jealous when he saw George and Shannon together. With that seen, it's hard to believe Battler didn't give Shannon a letter. Besides, George apparently already knew about Battler and Shannon's relationship, but still acted innocent when the letters were passed, and also kept insisting to shannon that battler will never return.

Originally Posted by CrystalStarlight95

Battler probably knows he said bye to her and "promised" to come back, but maybe it was just a joke on his part? He was only 13 when he said it, or he was probably just so shy he said it to sound adult or something.
Battler maybe just forgot the love. George is such an ass, he maybe sent letters to Battler saying, "Oh ya, Shannon's doing great without you~ " just to sabatoge the relationship more(LOL sorry I dunno if they ever had contact, just kidding)

I hate George, if only he gave Shannon the darn letter, it would've probably changed things D:<

Originally Posted by Lumy

I don't think Battler would feel the need to write letters to everyone in his family, knowing they'd be handed to them on Rokkenjima, and decide to specifically not write to the girl he liked a lot back then... who's also living on that island.

Judging from George's dialogue when he hands Shannon the empty bag, and him mentioning again and again that Battler probably won't return, and the whole envy talk in EP7... well, at least it has been established in EP1-6 that George will go to great lengths to have Shannon for himself.

Because Shannon never replied, Battler probably thought she had lost interest and started to more or less forget about her after a while too.

Here is my problem with the "George hiding the letter" theory.

Shannon was watching the entire time he was handing out the letters. There is no way she would have missed George taking two letters and stuffing it into his pocket and no way she wouldn't have been suspicious. The only one who could have taken it was the person who had the envelope before Shannon ever saw it, which was Kyrie. Kyrie has no reason to take the letter because she doesn't even care about Battler and what he does with his life.

Second of all, allow me to refer you to this quote. One Battler said in EP 3 maybe ten minutes after Shannon repeated the '< See you again>' line.

Jessica: "What about you, Battler? Have you gotten a girlfrie-nd?"
Battler: "Hmm, I wonder. There's a lot of girls that I play with. But there is no 'only one'. ......I'm just like a kid. I think it's more fun to be noisy with a large group of people than being alone with one person."

Battler considered Shannon, at most, a crush. Do you honestly believe he was going to take her off the island if Asumu didn't die? He would only be thirteen years old.

Along with that, it's entirely possible he forgot to write a letter. It had been three years and a lot happened. His mother died, he suddenly had a sister, he found out his father was having an affair, so yes it's possible with all those things piling up at once for his mind to slip up in remembering a girl he met only once a year. Battler's memory alone isn't all that amazing if you recall too.

Sorry, but I can't stand people making George out to be such a bad guy. Yes he liked Shannon, but I don't think he would go to such lengths. And even if he did, there's no way she couldn't have noticed if she was watching the letters being handed out the entire time.

[Mcjon01]

Originally Posted by Marion

Yes he liked Shannon, but I don't think he would go to such lengths.

I really have no trouble believing that George "Kill Everyone For Our Love" Ushiromiya would go to such lengths to make sure he has Shannon all to himself. And it's not like that scene is terribly descriptive; for all we know George had his back to Shannon at some point, or at least some opportunity to pull some sleight of hand. He was moving around from person to person passing them out, after all.