Code Geass Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Matrim]

It'll essentially stop the fighting because if the rebels continue to fight, they'll destroy any chance of peace for the Elevens.

It will not stop the fighting - there are bound to be many people who don't want any form of Britannian presence in Japan. I really don't see them all stopping just because Euphie on a whim decided to give them back their rights. The support for them will probably be reduced but the rebels will continue to exist. And of course, the rebels can always claim that their successful attacks in the last months forced Euphie to make that decision in order to try to deceive them to stop.

[Combat Butler]

Ah, the fan-fiction portion of my brain is going crazy after this episode, leaving me with a potential plot situation that, while entirely possible, has about a 0.1% chance of occurring.

First off, Suzaku's geass'd command is more than just a way to keep him alive. It also makes him completely worthless as Euphemia's bodyguard. If an attack does occur on Euphemia, it may be too much for Suzaku to reasonably handle, which will then trigger his command. Imagine Euphie's reaction when her boyfriend/personal knight abandons her. Even worse, he'll undoubtedly be questioned during the event, which will lead to responses like "Screw you, I'm gonna LIVE!" or even worse, "You're just dead weight holding me back", or something to that effect. Euphie already has a low opinion of herself, and thinks she's pretty much useless. However, it's one thing to think that about yourself, it's another for the person you love to say it straight to your face.

So, Suzaku abandons the now emotionally crushed Euphie, and who to save her but her dear brother, putting her life now firmly in the control of the OotBK! Lelouch just has to geass her into not revealing his identity, and promise to keep her safe. After all, she's already pretty popular with the Japanese, and she can pilot a KF(although we don't know how good she is), so she's not completely worthless to the Order. Anyway, to seal her fate, she is seen on the public camera(courtesy of Diethard?) escaping the scene with the OotBK. Her Britannian reputation is now completely destroyed, so she can't really turn back to her homeland for support, and she already had enough sympathy for Lelouch that she didn't turn him in.

Suzaku can still survive because Schienzel is smart, and can undoubtedly figure out about the geass from Suzaku and Orange's OOC moments, or if nothing else, he'll keep around Suzaku because he's a useful part. Suzaku can be convinced to serve him by 'punishing' him for his sin of abandoning Euphie. Basically, he'll be given several harsh missions to prove his loyalty to Britannia, along with something silly like house arrest(well, after abandoning Euphie, it's not like he can just go back to school ). So, Suzaku ends up killing many 11's, truly becoming a villain, and we can see the Lancelot surrounding by fire like in the OP. Whether or not he's redeemed, his reputation is now destroyed among the 11's, furthering Lelou's goals. After all, if Suzaku is still alive after Lelou wins, he can probably be convinced to stay with Nunnally, as his relationship with Euphie might be pretty much over by this point.

All in all, an unconventional way to progress the plot, thus extremely unlikely to happen.

Well, that's what fan-fiction is for, right?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Matrim

Well put. One has to wonder how the heck has Euphie survived to this date, being so dumb and naive. Cornelia has to be a true genius in sister-protecting.

Therein lies the problem.

All her life Cornelia has pampered Euphie and obviously kept her sheltered.

Which as Lloyd pointed out, Euphie wasn't too well known because she was kept from the sights of the public so she lacks experience in the political arena.

Sure she grew up to be a good and nice person but she doesn't realize the realities and brutalities of politics. Unfortunately her knight also lacks the experience...but then again she seems to have a tendency to do things without talking with other people about it.

It will not stop the fighting - there are bound to be many people who don't want any form of Britannian presence in Japan. I really don't see them all stopping just because Euphie on a whim decided to give them back their rights. The support for them will probably be reduced but the rebels will continue to exist. And of course, the rebels can always claim that their successful attacks in the last months forced Euphie to make that decision in order to try to deceive them to stop.

There is a reason why Lelouch stated that it would be the end of the Black Knights.

[quina]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

...but then again she seems to have a tendency to do things without talking with other people about it.

this time she talks to Schnizel first, also if she wasn't in bad term with her sister at the moment (about Susaku and such), she would have talked to her.

She was going to school to tell Susaku about the plan as well.
She was going to tell Lulu about it too, if that Shirley didn't blew the day (again).
and because Shirley's crap she sees the crowd as the opportunity to announce her plan given that Lulu (Zero) is there to hear her words too.

[Matrim]

There is a reason why Lelouch stated that it would be the end of the Black Knights.

Sure there is - there had to be some sort of cliffhanger. And even if there are no Black Knights there should remain more than enough rebels to cause some troubles. At least if the show wants to be anywhere close to being realistic, that is.

[Juvyniled]

Even if there are scattered remnants of rebels who insist on removing all Britannians, they won't be organized as well as they are now in including the moderates who see this "independent region" as a chance to regain their nation's autonomy. Realisticly, there will always be a small minority of extremes, ones that don't care how many people must die for their cause. But they'll lose a lot of support from those that could otherwise improve the system by working as politicians. Who knows, maybe many rebels do view this the way Lelouch does - nothing but a mere hindrance and that the empire must be taken down. In a realistic scenario, if a majority of the people did desire peace and Lelouch was not the way he was (determined to destroy the empire and controlling the powers of Geass), then I do believe that those causing problems could more than easily be suppressed.

Regardless, given Lelouch's existence and character, we already know that she isn't going to be successful. But from Euphemia's stand point, she does not know that nothing will deter Lelouch from his objective.

[DragoonKain3]

Some revelations. Actually a lot of them, which opens more connections and more possiblities. Man, this so much better than last episode!

-Viletta looks really happy with Ougi. So much so that I almost don't want her to remember her memories. Almost, but not quite, since it would so much more interesting for her to remember that she's a military officer of the brittania during the time she's all lovey dovey with Ougi. Ahh, the conflict. From a soft spoken inoccent looking female to uber hard ass gunner/pilot, would she be another Karen if she regains her memories? I wanna know!

- Hints of CecilleXLloyd lives on, despite the arranged marriage! Though to be honest, I'm wanting more LakshartaXLloyd nowadays, since I always love intellectual rival couples. (I blame you KareKano!)

- Marianne seemed to be some sort of star in piloting KMF. Now we know the reason why Cornelia looked up to her, and is probably one of the reasons why she became one of the kings concubines, if not the main reason. Also brings up the possibility that the reason why Lulu knows how to pilot KMFs are because he was taught at a young age by her.

- Cornelia showing a dere side to Schieznel out of all people? Who would've thought? I certainly was hoping for one of her subordinates. >_>

- Euphemia was really close to Lulu/Nanali at one point. That would explain why Lulu has kept her alive till this point, which I was wondering considering there is NO advantage to keeping her alive in the hotel, and certainly no advantage if she knows your freaking identity already. There certainly was a LuluXEuphemia thing going on before, but the end of the episode just totally wrecks the Lulu->euphie side even when vice versa is still pretty strong.

- Shirley is DEFINITELY Lulu's most important person to him, behind only Nanali and arguably Suzaku. Sad to say, but it's true (damn Lulu, notice Milly already!). Out of all the people present, it was only him that called her name out when she was in danger. He was worried so much so that he accidentally presses the trigger to release the gases when running to save her, which is uncharacteristic of our protagonist to say the least. Add the fact with his extreme guilt over her father's death and her still being alive despite figuring out his identity when it would've been more convenient to kill her, I think it's fair to say that she's up there in Lulu's VIP list.

On her side, she's definitely getting jealous over Lulu again.

- Sayoko is a FREAKING spy? Who would've thought? On cahoots with Diethart no less, which is surpising since she's Japanese and he's britannian. Man, another curveball thrown at us, and all I can say is, bring me more!

- Nanali comforts Lulu. While on first viewing I thought that this was because Nanali knows more than she lets on. But on the second viewing I find that the more plausible explanation is that she misunderstood Lulu's agony to be because of SuzakuXEuphie, partly for her and partly for him. Though if she did know more than she lets on, I wouldn't be suprised either way.


Minor character revelations:
- Suzaku knows how to cook.

- Karen's loyalty to Zero is absolute, but is hesitant with Lulu's orders. The irony! Makes me want to know even more what will happen if she does find out Zero's identity.

- Orange is still alive!




Side Notes:
- Magical girl in red was hawt! (Me want StikerS NOW!)
- Viletta is still #1 IMO in hawtness though, and this episode widens the gap even more between her competitors.
- Speaking of competitors, CC in school uniform = droolworthy! I was wondering when the heck will they put her in one, since its basically the most effective camouflage bar none while she LIVES IN SCHOOL. >_>

[dxanato]

This episode has move the plot so much it very hard for me to get hold on what will happen in the next set of episodes. It would appear to me that body count is going to fairly large and the number of main character that will survive or change will be in large scale. I very much looking forward to see how this all will unfold.

[Jazzrat]

mmmm.... cant wait to see the next episode after this one.

So many lil plot twist in this one compare to the last episode. I for one, am happy that Lulu x Suzuka x Euphie will not be holding hand and singing kumbaya after last episode.

Let see if i missed anything

a) Tamaki actually have an ambition other than being an ass, is it me or this guy have "traitor" or "coward" written all over his face. I can see him betraying the group for some gov position later on.

b) Lelouch is beginning to suspect 2 of his closest people, Ougi and Kallen. Kallen in school talking to Suzaku... lol, does that mean Kallen is going to get off'd by Lelouch for that suspicion? Ougi is definitely doing something very dangerous trying to figure out Zero's real identity, i think his day is either numbered or he's gonna defect/abandon OoBK soon

c) Schneizel is using Euphie as a sacrificial sheep (a pink one at that). This adds another level of intrigue. Cornelia is pissed at her naive sister's plan... she's gonna blow up IF she realized that Schneizel gave the green light for it.

d) Shirley got pushed back again this episode from trying to confront Lelouch on Zero's identity... quite a bummer, i thought they would have settle it this episode seeing how it's a school episode.

e) Suzaku x Kallen's moment, can really see her loyalty towards Zero wavering in this episode but i think she is going to stick with Zero till the end.

f) Sayoko the ninja cum spy maid! Quite shocking to see her working with Diethard then again, i can her reason for helping OoBK. She's the few people that knows Lelouch n Nunnally's true identity and background as royalties besides Suzaku, Millay and Euphie.

g) Euphie stepping on the political landmine. It's like her deathflag just went up with that announcement but somehow, i doubt she'll die. But still, i like this part a lot cause it really tears down that thin plank of trust between her and Lelouch just when you think it might be possible for her, suzaku and lelouch to reconcile after last episode.

[Juvyniled]

Lelouch doesn't suspect that Kallen's loyalty is wavering, though he is certainly glad that Kallen seems to have reconciled matters for the time being with Suzaku (rather than trying to kill him at school all the time -_-. I thought it was pretty ironic when she cursed Lelouch for giving her orders and saying that only Zero had the right to do so. Though I don't know what Sayoko's character is really like; she could be genuinely nice, she is deliberately following orders to protect herself, or she is working for some other organization herself.

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

- Shirley is DEFINITELY Lulu's most important person to him, behind only Nanali and arguably Suzaku. Sad to say, but it's true (damn Lulu, notice Milly already!). Out of all the people present, it was only him that called her name out when she was in danger.
On her side, she's definitely getting jealous over Lulu again.

I think that's to help cover C.C's escape more than an accident.

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

Lelouch doesn't suspect that Kallen's loyalty is wavering, though he is certainly glad that Kallen seems to have reconciled matters for the time being with Suzaku (rather than trying to kill him at school all the time -_-.

I'm not so sure about that, what would you think if you find your bodyguard talking to your enemy? Suzaku knows Kallen's identity. Lelouch knows Suzaku knows. I think at some point, Zero is going to test her loyalty.

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

I'm not so sure about that, what would you think if you find your bodyguard talking to your enemy? Suzaku knows Kallen's identity. Lelouch knows Suzaku knows. I think at some point, Zero is going to test her loyalty.

Certainly the situation looks awkward, considering that Kallen's identity was exposed, but given the fact that she went so far as to attempt to kill Suzaku IN public mind you in the face of many many witnesses, he'd be more concerned (as usual) if Suzaku managed to catch a tip of that blade.

[Airi]

- Shirley is DEFINITELY Lulu's most important person to him, behind only Nanali and arguably Suzaku. Sad to say, but it's true (damn Lulu, notice Milly already!). Out of all the people present, it was only him that called her name out when she was in danger. He was worried so much so that he accidentally presses the trigger to release the gases when running to save her, which is uncharacteristic of our protagonist to say the least. Add the fact with his extreme guilt over her father's death and her still being alive despite figuring out his identity when it would've been more convenient to kill her, I think it's fair to say that she's up there in Lulu's VIP list.

On her side, she's definitely getting jealous over Lulu again.

[Airi]

I made a mistake...sorry....

- Shirley is DEFINITELY Lulu's most important person to him, behind only Nanali and arguably Suzaku. Sad to say, but it's true (damn Lulu, notice Milly already!). Out of all the people present, it was only him that called her name out when she was in danger. He was worried so much so that he accidentally presses the trigger to release the gases when running to save her, which is uncharacteristic of our protagonist to say the least. Add the fact with his extreme guilt over her father's death and her still being alive despite figuring out his identity when it would've been more convenient to kill her, I think it's fair to say that she's up there in Lulu's VIP list.

On her side, she's definitely getting jealous over Lulu again.

.....SWEET MUSIC FOR MY EARS!!!!!!!!!!!

[Juvyniled]

Try to use quotes and avoid double posting

I don't think Lelouch holds any more feelings for Shirley, but deep down, he really doesn't want to get her involved in the situation any more. VIP? Probably not. Though somewhat of an important figure. And I don't think it's jealously that Shirley is spouting (if you're referring to the scene where Shirley questions why Lelouch is talking with a girl about love), she want's to know the truth; what was the relationship they shared and what happened.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

c) Schneizel is using Euphie as a sacrificial sheep (a pink one at that). This adds another level of intrigue. Cornelia is pissed at her naive sister's plan... she's gonna blow up IF she realized that Schneizel gave the green light for it.

okey i guess i failed on the "split second" thought but was pretty close but did Schneizel actually tell cornelia of the "plan" that yuffie had or did he "twist/distort" the whole idea...looking at cornelia's reaction it seems that she had no previous info on yuffie's speech...but wasnt Schneizel supposed to tell her what he had allowed yuffie to do?...i smell inbou!!

[The-Ghost]

dose anyone else think Suzaku is a little dense seeing how in this ep, it shows both Lulu and him getting in shit for missing classes, at the same time. wouldnt you think he would start wondering whats up with that missing all his school time at the same time the the OoBK act/

[quina]

Shirley is DEFINITELY Lulu's most important person to him, behind only Nanali and arguably Suzaku.

please do not read on if you are shirley's fan and feel offended reading whats actually happens in the episode.

huh? Where did you get that impression from? Lulu was calling out her name because she is the ONLY people in danger at that point. The board are coming down on her. Susaku would have to run forward a few meter to help her (even got Auther bit his leg in the process) and Kallen was behind the board that is crashing safe from all the harms. Kallen pushes the board down because she thinks that a "normal" person would be able to run back and avoid the crash, sadly Shirley is just a high school girl which do not meet Kellen's exspectation of Normal, she spent her time screaming doing nothing waiting for be helped.

Lulu practically IGNORE shirley for the rest of this episode, even when she said she has a serious conversation and need to talk to him, he just tell her to wait he will talk to her later when he has time. Is this the way you treat someone most important to you? May be... but I don't think so..

Worse yet, later in the episode.. while Lulu was having a conversation with his first love (Euphie, according to the interview), because of her pointless jealousy Shirley's decide to break off the couple... but before so, she did something worse; she scream out name of Euphemia. After that point the whole episode is pretty much ruined, festival fall apart, CC's pizza dream break down to pieces, and worse of all she did the work gather the crownd to fire Euphie up to announce her naive plan with out Lulu hearing and have chance to stop her. (yes, she was about to tell Lulu about the plan, "but i have a good way now....." then she was interrupted...). Thank you Shirley....you totally blew the day again. (well.. the audience shouldn't be surprised, she has done that countless of times during the series already since She almost kill Lulu bying calling him back in ep 1...)

To Lulu, she is an innocent classmate. One of the student in school, the place where he wants to stay out of the conflict that is going on.... Most important person? hardly.... If shirley was to confront him with the Zero crap again, she would be in grave...

-

[Juvyniled]

Originally Posted by The-Ghost

dose anyone else think Suzaku is a little dense seeing how in this ep, it shows both Lulu and him getting in shit for missing classes, at the same time. wouldnt you think he would start wondering whats up with that missing all his school time at the same time the the OoBK act/

I'd definitely agree with you, but since we don't know what he's thinking, we don't really know whether he has taken that into consideration or not. If he doesn't figure that something is wrong, then it must have been mentioned previously as to why Lelouch has been lacking attendance (though I can't recall this). I can't really assume he's too preoccupied with anything (dealing with Kallen's exposure??) at that point not to consider why Lelouch is absent as much as he is, so yeah it really looks like he's dense. Though they've got this whole festival thing going on, and Lelouch and Suzaku are getting less and less time to converse with one another, so I doubt the issue will be raised now.

[seraphon]

Originally Posted by quina

while Lulu was having a conversation with his first love (Euphie, according to the interview)

-

Errrrr love? you sure? In this episode we just learn that euphie and nunally had some discussion over who would be lelouch's bride but nothing says lelouch loved euphemia( well he did love her as a sister I think).

On a side note, didnt shirley and maybe other people see lelouch and nunally beside euphemia? Well at least shirley knows that lelouch was talking privately to euphemia (she even thinks that lelouch is flirting with her) so if she can do 2+2....... I think thats quite a potential threat to lelouch secret of being a prince. Or maybe shirley is too stupid and will forget it or nobody cares about the boy who was talking with a britannian princess as if he was very good friend with her. Just a random thougth. And as for people who would tell me he was "hid" by euphemia, I ll say that a thin girl like euphemia cant hide nunally's big whellchair.