2013-08-02, 02:38 | Link #4561 | |||
The True Culprit
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2013-08-02, 03:01 | Link #4562 | ||
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And the the two diaries are just random gibberish?.. =/ (Don't answer At this point any more hints would be spoilers. I think it's bonkers and will leave it at that for now.)
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On the other hand it was Night. Without any light you won't be able to see 5cm infront of you, so I guess I need to reread just how much lightsource there actually was. Quote:
Still Battler has no way of knowing any "secret" win conditions so I'm still surprised he accepted the new blue rule which, from his point of view is nothing but added pressure on him and creates "explain everything or lose" instead of "I still don't believe in witches, start another round".
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2013-08-02, 03:49 | Link #4564 | |
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I do understand Ange's position completly though - just get it over with even if there's a chance you will lose, otherwise this will take an eternity. Oh and could someone, please, copy-paste red truth's of eps 1-4 in spoiler tag? GreyZone said there was a thread or something with all red truth's together, but I don't want to stumble into 5+ by accident. Still don't understand why red truth's weren't in TIPS.
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2013-08-02, 04:18 | Link #4565 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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I would recommend against relying too much on the red truth as a reasoning tool. It is extremely useful, but Umineko can't be solved without also paying close attention to the white text.
Anyway, you can find all the red truths here. It shouldn't be too hard to just avoid reading past the end of Alliance. |
2013-08-02, 04:42 | Link #4566 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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And yeah, I mostly just want it to make sure my theories aren't directly contradicted by red truths. Oh, how much I tried to find a loophole to pin Nanjo's murder on Jessica homicide or Eva's "accidental" shot
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2013-08-02, 11:58 | Link #4568 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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About Kanon killing everyone on Rokkenjima:
Ushiromiya Battler. I will now...kill you. And right now, there is no one other than you on this island. The only one alive on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere. You are all alone on this island. And of course, I am not you. Yet I am here, now, and will kill you. No life forms other than humans have any connection to this game So Kanon cannot be the one who kills Battler at the end, even if he really would be a different "personality". Also if you have a theory like this, you should check if there are any hints about it in the earlier episodes, or not. That applies to any other theories as well. (You don't have to rewatch them, but you can at least "think back" and possibly rewatch individual scenes again). This also applies to "rocks falling down". Is that supported anywhere in the story? Did Battler observe anything that could lead to that conclusion? Did anyone talk about "unstable rocks" or something? To get a proper theory for the "accident", you should try to think about it. When does it happen? What are you basing it on? What was said about rokkenjima/the guesthouse/the masion/the secret passages/the secret mansion, that could support your theory? Or do it backwards: Check what you know about the island again and from that create a theory.
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2013-08-02, 12:10 | Link #4569 | |
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And as for "rocks fall, everyone dies" I did not meant it literally Did I spend too much time on tvtropes? What I meant is just "some sort of accident beyond human control", not rocks falling out of the sky In ep3 I thought Eva ran the bodies of the dead through a meat-grinder. And now I think that a disaster happens at 24:00 october 5 no matter what. Even if all 17 of them sat there for two days drinking tea and eating cookies.
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2013-08-02, 13:32 | Link #4570 | |||||||
The True Culprit
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Honestly, the Blue truth is extremely favorable to Battler's side because if he uses it right he can get any Red Truth he wants. Quote:
Spoiler for Sauzer don't read this one.:
PFFFFT oh my goddd~ XD Quote:
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2013-08-02, 15:08 | Link #4571 |
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No, don't spoil it. I asume it's explained in VN sooner or later.
And yes I'm not quoting you because I learned from my past mistake of dealing with spoiler tags. And saying "Dont read this .... MUAHAHA this is so funny, too bad you can't read this!" is too cruel. ... And wait a minute!!! "She's talking about her immediate family for dramatic effect, here. She never really accepted Eva as a replacement caretaker and is emphasizing that her most important family is gone." As touching as that whole scene was, really it was. BUT! She used red truth. Call me nitpicky or bullying a dying girl, but she used red truth! And in this case (if she really is ep3 Ange) she used it as "true for her" or "true from her point of view" but not the absolute truth. Anyway. Spoiler for Episode 1:
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Last edited by Sauzer; 2013-08-02 at 15:29. |
2013-08-02, 18:17 | Link #4573 | |||||||
The True Culprit
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And also, Ange and Beatrice have both made statements with no truth value at all, like requests, crying, and laughing. Quote:
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For the purpose of Beato's game, btw? A culprit is someone who kills. Assisting them just makes you an accomplice. Quote:
Anyway, aside from those comments I can't poke any holes in your EP1 solution yet. Two questions: "Why does everyone die at 24:00 October 5?" and "What is Kanon's motive for killing?"
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2013-08-02, 18:18 | Link #4574 | |
The True Culprit
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Aside from that, you're right. The three of them can't be killers of any kind in EP1.
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2013-08-02, 18:33 | Link #4575 | |
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2013-08-02, 19:15 | Link #4576 | |||
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Anyone who leaves the island during the storm, most certainly dies. So in the end if it really was Kanon, then he would have to have commited suicide or die by some other means. Quote:
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Now about your EP1 theories: Spoiler for Wall of Text:
I don't understand why you are so pessimistic about the games. Your theories about EP1 are very well constructed and I can tell you that you are indeed making progress. EDIT: While I wrote this, 4 new posts appeard. Well, that escalated quickly.
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Last edited by GreyZone; 2013-08-02 at 19:33. |
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2013-08-03, 03:05 | Link #4577 | ||||||||
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Ooh, tag-teamed
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Hideoyshi is killed in Eva's room with the culprit inside the room. Eva is killed in the boiler room, with the culprit inside the room. Just an example, but that's what I meant. They did not need to die inside Eva's room. Just be in the same room as the culprit at the moment of their death. It does not solve the closed room. Just creates a possibility of Eva being killed because she witnessed something, or something else. Quote:
a. culprit kills Eva and Hideyoshi and escapes through the window, Kanon breaks the chain and closes that window before everyone else gets there. b. Kanon kills Eva and Hideyoshi, escapes through the window, half an hour later comes with Genji and knocks on the door, Genji runs to Natsuhi while Kanon breaks the chain and closes the window before everyone else comes to the room. Hm, so anyone I "revive" as faking death get's an alibi anyway... But for Kanon's death there was added Let us include the dead as well!! Doesn't that mean that there is a difference between "survivor" and who the people think are "dead"? Still seems like there's a loophole. Not to mention that in case there seems to be a contradiction. Natsuhi was killed by another person! There are no unidentified corpses, and all of the survivors have alibis! If someone not dead = a survivor, then there is no human on the island who can kill Natsuhi. Thus survivor has a different meaning. Quote:
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And also I thought that the "the identities of all unidentified corpses are guaranteed" just confirmed that the dead people are who they seem they are, not that they are 100% dead for certain. Quote:
As for Kanon's motive, I also refuse to specify at this time Quote:
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It's the same with Jessica in ep2. She could've died from her Astma and created a locked room that way. However she ends up with a Stake in her back, which someone had to place after her death, recreating the closed room. So wether she dies from "natural" causes or not does not help solve the close room because of the added "unnatural" element. Well it seems he get's a "red pass" on being a killer in ep1. But I didn't really think he actively killed anyone so that's ok. Though if you twist it a bit you can be labeled "murderer" legaly without actually pulling the triger yourself, if I'm not mistaken. Oh and the reason Kanon now is a major suspect Is because unless the culprit hides inside the room, Kanon is the one who verifies it as "sealed" both in Kanon/Genji and Kanon/Kumasawa situation. Without Kanon's involvement in any way the culprit cannot escape Eva's room while still creating a closed room. However Kumasawa's or Genji's involvement is not 100% needed. While on the other hand if Kanon is not involved in the 2nd twilight, his death in the boiler room becomes an event greater mystery as everyone get's a "red alibi" against killing him.
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Last edited by Sauzer; 2013-08-03 at 03:26. |
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2013-08-03, 03:27 | Link #4578 | |||||
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2013-08-03, 06:26 | Link #4579 | |
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2013-08-03, 07:03 | Link #4580 | |
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Beatrice: Natsuhi was killed by another person! There are no unidentified corpses, and all of the survivors have alibis! The bullet buried into Natsuhi's forehead was not fired from Natsuhi's gun! When talking about Natsuhi's death
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