2019-09-30, 23:22 | Link #362 |
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@Triple_R I feel like the problem with this anime was that there were too much of an element of determinism that bordered on nihilism, with Magiaconawhatever deciding everything and it felt like nobody had any agency, as shown by the people that can't win no matter what. Even Shingestu's life was predetermined by them. (maybe she needs advice from Sisko on this ). They even noted that humans are going to just find some other means to make the world bad.
So there's a great degree of contrivance that she will definitely erase magic and that is that. It feels a bit hopeless in a way though I guess the very last scenes shows that it's not that simple. If those flowers really did bloom and Mango really didn't kick the bucket, I guess you really can't say magic is bad and all. I mean, I really did like this anime as it really did feel like a blast from the past (espeically the ending narration), but the way they set up the story, it kinda led to an ending that couldn't satisfy everyone. I guess there are sacrifices to prevent it from being a reset button ending,but yeaa....
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2019-10-01, 00:27 | Link #363 | ||
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I found it very interesting when Mango became aware of her doll status. Honestly, that reveal was brilliantly executed. The immediate aftermath of that was really gripping and good character drama. But I was hoping that this would result in something more like the classic Pinocchio story. Instead of, you know, Mango very calmly going to her death for the sake of Ernesta's wish... I just find it really hard to buy into the sacrifices here. I just feel like they never made magic seem evil enough that anybody sane would be willing to die (or worse) just to get rid of magic. Quote:
By the way, nice talking with you again, Archon. It's been awhile.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2019-10-01 at 00:42. |
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2019-10-01, 00:57 | Link #364 |
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I completely agree with this. Unless there's something that I missed (I can admittedly zone out sometimes while watching anime and miss a lot of details because my attention span is lol), the arguments made against magic were pure sophistry. All I remember is Mangetsu saying that humans shouldn't have the power to do whatever they want, and I say meh to that. That's completely true if mages use their magic for ill purposes, but so long as they're benevolent demi-gods, let them be demi-gods. "It's wrong because it's wrong" has never been convincing for me, nor have appeals to nature. If there's something that can be used to reduce suffering in the world, then take advantage of it and take a big giant piss all over 'nature.' Always hated when people draw lines in the sand and say that there's some forms of suffering that are sacred and should never be done away with. It's wrong to go "hmm magic could wish away cancer but that goes against nature so maybe we should just get rid of magic altogether instead?"
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2019-10-01, 02:11 | Link #366 | |
I disagree with you all.
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2019-10-01, 03:32 | Link #367 | |||
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It came to mind in the last episode when Shingetsu briefly laments her life being decided....
Spoiler for Star Trek DS9:
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On Reddit, I guess the best theory is that magiaconatus was suicidal and just wanted someone to kill it off. Shingetsu would be the only one to just do it. However, we also know Shingetsu isn't always the best person on these issues as she often just does whatever she thinks is best without caring about what other people truly feels. Actually, she just doesn't understand people at all. This is evident by the fact that her only actual friend ended up trying to kill her, and her other friend is made up. Do we really want her to represent humanity on what to do with this shit? In the end I would say if you wanted someone to be in charge of the universe, neither Shingetsu or Homura are very good choices, for somewhat different but rather similar reasons. Quote:
(Re:zero spoilers)
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2019-10-01, 06:01 | Link #368 | |
is this so?
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Well, it could be argued that if the power went to the hands of someone twisted like Suishou.. humanity would be f*cked. But the power went to Ernesta who is a decent person, I still think erasing the magic is a waste.
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2019-10-01, 07:24 | Link #369 | |||||
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I also just read over the obvious references you put up. Nice! Good to know there was some very clear-cut Gundam references as well. Quote:
"Hey, what do we need with electricity? We're meant to have periods of daylight and complete darkness. Besides, we have these lovely candles. And some really tasty meat-buns. What more do we need?!" That's honestly how some of Ernesta and Mango's arguments come across to me, lol. So while probably unintentional, the last couple episodes of the anime give off a pretty strong luddite feel to me. Quote:
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Spoiler for Madoka Magica:
Good points. That kinda sums it up for my feelings as well.
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2019-10-01, 09:00 | Link #370 | ||
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I guess Madoka fans wouldn't like that. Madoka was a show in which the pros and cons of every action were pretty clear cut. Indeed, when Madoka asks her wish, it comes off as a very calculated wish, specifically crafted to trick QB and get something very specific out of it. That was interesting but a bit too idealized and convenient. Do you think when Siddhartha Gautama left his kingdom and his position as prince to look for a way to alleviate humanity's suffering, he knew that his quest and material sacrifice would be worth it? Of course he didn't. For all he knew, a bandit might kill him just a few minutes after leaving his kingdom. Ernesta's decision is a nice reflection of that kind of sacrifice and uncertainty when you don't know if you're gonna get anything worthwhile out of it. That makes it feel more grounded.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2019-10-01 at 10:12. |
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2019-10-01, 09:24 | Link #371 | |
is this so?
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2019-10-01, 09:47 | Link #372 |
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I didn't like the ending either, but I respect Shingetsu for sticking to her guns until the very end and never compromising, even if it really pains me poor Kuon remained dead and forgotten. However, one has to wonder: wasn't Shingetsu also a puppet of Magiaconatus? Not in the literal sense of course, but Suishou explained it manipulated her whole life, so she was basically shaped into hating magic. Magiaconatus being suicidal seems pretty likely. If that's the case, she was really just a tool, and to me that makes the ending even worse.
The only main character that got a good ending was Nenene when I think about it.
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2019-10-01, 11:52 | Link #373 | ||||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Age: 33
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When you recall that fact however, and all the manipulation Magiaconatus did to get it's way (all of which were left as is), this argument loses it's merits. Is doing all of that for some admittedly minor betterment of the future really worth more than helping the people that were hurt by Magiaconatus in the present? For example, what happens to the souls of the deleted girls? You mentioned the Buddhist themes of the show. Does that mean the deleted girls can never reincarnate again? Quote:
Magiaconatus manipulated Anna so that Shingetsu would give up on the idea of using magic to help people and when it was done with her she was outright replaced, not even deleted. Shingetsu was simply a tool in the end. It simply doesn't track to me how she so obediently goes along with it. If you think of it in Madoka terms, imagine if that series ended with Madoka simply swallowing every lie Kyuubey told her despite everything and then using her wish to stop the universe's heat death or whatever Kyuubey wanted. Quote:
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2019-10-01, 11:56 | Link #374 | |||
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On Homura.... Spoiler:
It does seem like an issue here is that basically Shingetsu was really spoiled by magic. She's given all this power and favor and doesn't appreciate it. So she's more inclined to just give it up. To those that are less fortunate and have many issues to think about right now, well.... Magiaconatus did it!
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2019-10-01, 13:08 | Link #376 |
I disagree with you all.
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It's hard to judge because we don't really know the limits of magic. Shingetsu didn't bring back Kuon, but was it ever possible to bring her back?
Also, what would have happened if she hadn't erased magic? Would there just be a few magicians with fancy but not that significant abilities running around? Or would we have a bunch of reality warpers rewriting history willy-nilly? What would happen if the reality warpers disagreed on something? |
2019-10-01, 13:29 | Link #377 | ||
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Also, we don't know of Shingetsu could have helped them. Magic is left vague so that all those question are kept in the air. Deliberately no doubt.
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2019-10-01, 13:29 | Link #378 | |||
The Mage of Four Hearts
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If she decided to keep it, people would simply go on with the weak abilities they had from the start of the show. Quote:
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2019-10-01, 13:43 | Link #379 | |
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2019-10-01, 13:53 | Link #380 | |
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Suishou said Magiaconatus was doing both. Magiaconatus deliberately drove Anna insane with jealousy so that Shingetsu would think the cause was her using magic to help her back then, so she would deny the very idea of using magic to help people. It worked to the point that Shingetsu could not even conceive of saving Mangetsu with magic and had to have it pointed out to her.
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female lead, holygrail, magical girl, mecha |
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