Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[azziz]

Originally Posted by isadin801

I agree with what you said. If it wasnt for thesiblings he would be a superstar for the first years.

=and that's why he still resent our hero.
what about the new douchebag,takumi,do you think the author will try to redeem him,too?

[Voceane]

The problem with Morisaki is how he think. He don't think with his brain but with something lower.

And who is stronger: Put a tiger and a shark and let they fight who will win?

[isadin801]

Even if his personality is flawed that doesnt take away from his talent. Do you guys at least admit he is talented?

[NoLife222]

Morisaki's problem is more on his personality. Every character has their own strength and weakness. For Morisaki, he is more known for his quick magic activation and anti-personal magic. Miyuki has dominating magic power. Tatsuya focus on efficient small scale magic, brawn ,brains and mind games(in typical and not full limit release combat).

[Rava]

Originally Posted by CatRules

He has. Burg Folge is automatic.

This is totally splitting hairs. Burg Folge is magically based genetic manipulation. It's as ridiculous as saying that a wall is magical because someone used magic to assemble it. It's totally irrelevant to him putting up his standard protective magic and you know it.

Originally Posted by CatRules

Beside, when Masaki attacked Tatsuya, he did it instinctively so he din't hold back and it was also done in closer distance than Leo's case. If Leo got hit by even one of Masaki's compressed air bullet in Tatsuya's situation, the damage he received would be different.

One more thing. Try to recall what Leo and Miki worn during the Monolith Code.

Did Tatsuya wear it too?

No.

The way it's translated, Masaki "holding back" was keeping the number of bullets to a not-so-insane level, not controlling the strength of each individual bullet. That's why it's making a big deal about the the number of bullets (16), because each individual bullet is already annoying for Tatsuya to blast away.

And yes, he was wearing the mantle and robe. Did you happen to remember Tatsuya's descriptions of what did they did? "The mantle and robe include enchantments that facilitate the user using magic."

In other words, if he's not using magic, they don't do squat. They aren't any more protective than Tatsuya's gear.

And on top of that, he flat out states that he forgot to use magic to block the bullet, because he was too focused on attacking, which was by using the mantle to screw with Kichijouji's Invisible Bullet requirements, so he was not using any of his standard protection magics against it.

But if you plan on splitting hairs about the translation as well, go right on ahead.

Originally Posted by CatRules

P.S. Leo is hard to kill. So what? Does killing is the only way to stop him? I said Morisaki can beat the two of them in 5 secs but I didn't mean killing them. Making them unconscious is enough to beat them. He can make Leo feel dizzy in first shot before knocking down Miki and come back to deal with Leo.


Beside, Leo is not the only one who has a functional pair of legs.

You didn't see Morisaki's picture in his SS as he's standing still midair while shooting down other do you?

Who said anything about *killing* Leo here? I said, and I quote:

Leo will be able to easily survive whatever he gets hit by before he can put up his magic, close the distance, and tear Morisaki to shreds.

You have no argument from me that Mikihiko is screwed in an actual fight with Morisaki. But Leo's way too sturdy for Morisaki to have a chance to get anything useful off before Leo turns on his protective magic. Or are you trying to claim that Morisaki is even better than Masaki here?

But does all this mean Morisaki is "weaker" than Leo overall?

You're excessively defending Morisaki here. I'm ONLY saying that in a combat situation, Leo can easily handle Morisaki. If you decide to load up Morisaki with a bunch of advantages in your bias, then at best he'll get a stalemate because it becomes more of a match of fortitude on who gets tired of using magic first.

[CatRules]

Originally Posted by Rava

And yes, he was wearing the mantle and robe. Did you happen to remember Tatsuya's descriptions of what did they did? "The mantle and robe include enchantments that facilitate the user using magic."

So that's what the robe did? I thought it also has defensive ability.

Spoiler for Vol6:

"At the time, the cloak wasn't straight like a metal plate, nor did the creases affect its ability to serve as a shield. Looks like some sort of assistance magic was incorporated into the fabric."

So it seems that it only shield him from Gorge's visual confirmation? Okay, you had clarified me in this point.

Originally Posted by Rava

You have no argument from me that Mikihiko is screwed in an actual fight with Morisaki. But Leo's way too sturdy for Morisaki to have a chance to get anything useful off before Leo turns on his protective magic. Or are you trying to claim that Morisaki is even better than Masaki here?

But does all this mean Morisaki is "weaker" than Leo overall?

You're excessively defending Morisaki here. I'm ONLY saying that in a combat situation, Leo can easily handle Morisaki. If you decide to load up Morisaki with a bunch of advantages in your bias, then at best he'll get a stalemate because it becomes more of a match of fortitude on who gets tired of using magic first.

Leo is tough and Morisaki's magic is A LOT weaker than Masaki's. I won't deny these but what Leo's fortification magic does is just turning his cloth into armor or stopping his body from being blown away. Can Morisaki just shot the uncovered parts?

In addition, it's not like Morisaki has to knock Leo before he cast his can magic. All he has to do is shotting constantly. There is no need to worry about Leo's magic because when Mori's magic struck, it's likely that Leo won't be able to continue his casting.

Spoiler for From Hattori's mock battle with Tatsuya in Vol1.:

In this situation, the one who invoked their magic first would usually win. Even if the initial attack did not completely defeat the opponent, but some degree of damage was unavoidable. There were very few people that had the mental discipline to absorb magical damage and could still calmly work their magic. Since sustaining magical damage also disrupted the magic creation process, so long as he continued to attack, victory was assured.

[Rava]

Originally Posted by CatRules

So that's what the robe did? I thought it also has defensive ability.

Spoiler for Vol6:

"At the time, the cloak wasn't straight like a metal plate, nor did the creases affect its ability to serve as a shield. Looks like some sort of assistance magic was incorporated into the fabric."

So it seems that it only shield him from Gorge's visual confirmation? Okay, you had clarified me in this point.

The point is that if the robe had defensive capabilities, it still had to be activated with magic, which Leo wasn't doing and admitted to not doing. To facilitate something is to make it easier to do, not to automatically do it for you.

Originally Posted by CatRules

Leo is tough and Morisaki's magic is A LOT weaker than Masaki's. I won't deny these but what Leo's fortification magic does is just turning his cloth into armor or stopping his body from being blown away. Can Morisaki just shot the uncovered parts?

In addition, it's not like Morisaki has to knock Leo before he cast his can magic. All he has to do is shotting constantly. There is no need to worry about Leo's magic because when Mori's magic struck, it's likely that Leo won't be able to continue his casting.

Spoiler for From Hattori's mock battle with Tatsuya in Vol1.:

In this situation, the one who invoked their magic first would usually win. Even if the initial attack did not completely defeat the opponent, but some degree of damage was unavoidable. There were very few people that had the mental discipline to absorb magical damage and could still calmly work their magic. Since sustaining magical damage also disrupted the magic creation process, so long as he continued to attack, victory was assured.

Leo's magic is voice activated and doesn't execute the same way as the standard modern magic illustrated in Hattori's mock battle, so if they were starting at range, Morisaki shooting him with magic is already too late. (If they were in close quarters, he'd just disarm.)

Originally Posted by Volume 1, Chapter 10

Leo's Fortify Magic simultaneously executes the Activation Sequence as well as the design and invocation stages of the Magic Sequence and spreads out in succession while maintaining a constant state of magic renewal.

And shooting at "uncovered parts" assumes Leo just stands there and lets him, which is highly unlikely. The only uncovered part he'd normally have is his head, and that's it.

[Chimurry]

This will go with no end, Hattori was like Morisaki or even worse cuz he even didnt recon Tats as Person even in front her Majesty the Queen (She almost frost him if Mayumi and Mari didint stop and Tats skinship Miyuki or at least put his hand on her), but after the duel and the talk with Kirihara at the Hotel entrance things seems work out now, Morisaki is natural talented, but thats not good enough, doesnt matter where, if you dont have confidence, practicals and cold head, and obviusly known where the limits and play with tactics to fill this limits, Ericka won easy cuz the guy was overconfident in "the written fact" the Blooom are superior than Weeds and about who could win with fair duel against Morisaki, well just look Tats JSDF partners in 101st, mostly of them are discard from regulars Batallions, even Tats at least on paperts without MB will be class B at max, this fact is ready known by Hattori and Kirihara (written facts dont made a prophesy).

@Black: I know is 28, but far I remember the author put it that way, so cant helped

[CatRules]

Originally Posted by Rava

The point is that if the robe had defensive capabilities, it still had to be activated with magic, which Leo wasn't doing and admitted to not doing. To facilitate something is to make it easier to do, not to automatically do it for you.




Leo's magic is voice activated and doesn't execute the same way as the standard modern magic illustrated in Hattori's mock battle, so if they were starting at range, Morisaki shooting him with magic is already too late. (If they were in close quarters, he'd just disarm.)



And shooting at "uncovered parts" assumes Leo just stands there and lets him, which is highly unlikely. The only uncovered part he'd normally have is his head, and that's it.

Isn't the voice command serves as magic selecting buttons in general CADs?
Panzer fortifies his cloth. Halt stabilizes his position.



Actually, after reading your previous post, I started to realize that I probably overrated Morisaki a little.
I thought what can he do with his skills but I didn't consider what will he actually do.

If I have Morisaki's ability, I think it's not much difficult to knock Leo down in range combat.

All I have to do is to concentrate on Leo's exposed vulnerable parts: ears, eyes, nose and throat. Simple oscillation magic is enough. Leo wouldn't be able to guard himself completely for a long period of time (and if the shock waves disturbed his defense, he would go down even faster).


Morisaki's way of thinking may be problematic but his skills are true.

Spoiler for a little complaint:

P.S. Ohhh!! Nooo! It's fun to discuss things with someone else but I'm very tired with Morisaki now! Goshh! I'm not even like him. why do i have to continue to fight for his sake!? Ohh!! My Erika, my goddess, where are you? I missed you so muchhh!!!

[NoLife222]

Well, Erika is another irregular "Weed". Her combat skill might have surpass many "Bloom" student. By the way, it's really hard to imagine her personal weaponized CAD "Orochimaru". My friend told me to just to visualized as Sephiroth's Masamune, it still seems a little odd though.

[Vahanar]

It's a magic school, and from what I remember Erika is doing poorly in that regard.

As for Orochimaru, the one she's holding?

Spoiler:

[NoLife222]

Originally Posted by Vahanar

It's a magic school, and from what I remember Erika is doing poorly in that regard.

As for Orochimaru, the one she's holding?

Spoiler:

It looks like a big kitchen knife.....

[ReaperxKingx]

Well it is all speculations thus far. I don't particular like Morisaki because he looks down on tactics. I am also the type of guy who takes fighting experience over the physical abilities of one's body which gives Mikohiko and Leo an advantage over Morisaki. Its not that I am overrating the Protagonist group, I already know they are quite small in prowess with other characters shown. As a year 1 student and with his magic alone, I will give Morisaki the award of magical prowess in the first years. Though, overall prowess I will give it to Tatsuya, Leo, Erica, Mikihiko and so on. Not due to their physical abilities, but everything. Morisaki appears to be the type who will not listen to anyone he perceive as a lower being than himself which is dangerous and not someone I would want to team up in a competition or a real battlefield.

[willx]

Originally Posted by Rava

And shooting at "uncovered parts" assumes Leo just stands there and lets him, which is highly unlikely. The only uncovered part he'd normally have is his head, and that's it.

Just for accuracy's sake here .. starting from a distance, there's no way Morisaki would lose to Leo. Taking nothing else into account, assuming "pistols at dawn" mode -- Morisaki would win hands down -- he's not known for his "quick draw" for nothing.

That said, Leo is agile and would do very well in the police force or in a jungle warfare setting, he's also agile like a beast and all that .. but keep in mind during the 9-schools competition, when faced with opponents at range, his only option was to use the mini-communicator to give him a ranged weapon. In one match the author even states that Leo was being overwhelmed and preparing to throw his last bit of strength into an all out defense of the Monolith.

It's a tough pill to swallow, but innate ability is innate, you can learn tactics and acquire knowledge to strengthen your abilities and cover your weaknesses .. but the idea of innate talent is a theme in this light novel. The world isn't fair after all y'know! (Don't get me started on Sayaka and her retarded magic infused kunai.. seriously?)

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by azziz

=and that's why he still resent our hero.
what about the new douchebag,takumi,do you think the author will try to redeem him,too?

Unlike Morisaki, Takumi is a true blue antagonist. He's set himself in direct opposition of Tatsuya and co. There is no redemption.

[NoLife222]

The novel seem to explain that the original Elemental sight (ES) has the ability to predict and see the data that represent the future, but Tatsuya's ES seems only to be able to see the data up to 24 hours before current time. Does that mean that Tatsuya's ES has not fully develop? Also does the skill regrowth need ES to be used, as the 24 hour limit seems too much to be a coincidence.

[Rava]

Originally Posted by willx

Just for accuracy's sake here .. starting from a distance, there's no way Morisaki would lose to Leo. Taking nothing else into account, assuming "pistols at dawn" mode -- Morisaki would win hands down -- he's not known for his "quick draw" for nothing.

That said, Leo is agile and would do very well in the police force or in a jungle warfare setting, he's also agile like a beast and all that .. but keep in mind during the 9-schools competition, when faced with opponents at range, his only option was to use the mini-communicator to give him a ranged weapon. In one match the author even states that Leo was being overwhelmed and preparing to throw his last bit of strength into an all out defense of the Monolith.

It's a tough pill to swallow, but innate ability is innate, you can learn tactics and acquire knowledge to strengthen your abilities and cover your weaknesses .. but the idea of innate talent is a theme in this light novel. The world isn't fair after all y'know! (Don't get me started on Sayaka and her retarded magic infused kunai.. seriously?)

If you're going to point out Monolith Code, at the very least remember WHY he's doing that. Leo's on defense the entire time in Monolith Code up until the last fight when he goes offensive against Kichijouji and, because of the rules, is not allowed to engage in melee, his primary method of attack -- of course he's struggling. He's stuck defending their monolith from getting ripped open when his skills are clearly more towards being offensive and closing the distance, but because of Tatsuya's tactics, the Monolith Code rules, and his skill at Fortifying Magic, he's stuck on defense and has to make do with what he has and still does well for his circumstance despite having to use tactics that are contrary to how he normally fights.

[willx]

^ Oh, I agree, I'm just pointing that out because people seem to be piling onto Morisaki again for some odd reason and going so far as to think Leo would win .. which is hilarious. Do people really find arrogant/confident individuals with innate skill that easy to dislike? Is it that hard for people to stare into the sky and admit that their are individuals much greater than them that they can't ever hope to reach?

I find it very amusing that the only persons that ever get pitted against enemy magicians of any reasonable caliber is Tatsuya. The Tatsuya / Hattori duel noted that "Magic Power" -- casting speed + phenomenon re-writing ability (which are tested) reign supreme .. unless you have Tatsuya & Erika level combat speed.

[Rava]

Originally Posted by willx

^ Oh, I agree, I'm just pointing that out because people seem to be piling onto Morisaki again for some odd reason and going so far as to think Leo would win .. which is hilarious. Do people really find arrogant/confident individuals with innate skill that easy to dislike? Is it that hard for people to stare into the sky and admit that their are individuals much greater than them that they can't ever hope to reach?

I find it very amusing that the only persons that ever get pitted against enemy magicians of any reasonable caliber is Tatsuya. The Tatsuya / Hattori duel noted that "Magic Power" -- casting speed + phenomenon re-writing ability (which are tested) reign supreme .. unless you have Tatsuya & Erika level combat speed.

That's because the more info we find out about Leo, the less likely it seems that the other students are his equal when it comes to combat (and solely combat). Basically, the series sets him up that way so that they can use him for the Worf Effect (TVTropes link warning) later.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by willx

^ Oh, I agree, I'm just pointing that out because people seem to be piling onto Morisaki again for some odd reason and going so far as to think Leo would win .. which is hilarious. Do people really find arrogant/confident individuals with innate skill that easy to dislike? Is it that hard for people to stare into the sky and admit that their are individuals much greater than them that they can't ever hope to reach?

I find it very amusing that the only persons that ever get pitted against enemy magicians of any reasonable caliber is Tatsuya. The Tatsuya / Hattori duel noted that "Magic Power" -- casting speed + phenomenon re-writing ability (which are tested) reign supreme .. unless you have Tatsuya & Erika level combat speed.

I hope your last question is applying towards the setting of series. If you are talking about reality, then I feel very insulted.