2013-01-31, 07:23 | Link #5801 | |||||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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But we can at least confirm that Orb is not likely to blame it's ideals but consider the Earth Alliance at fault, right? Quote:
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The fact remains that what they did still proves that the ideals are still a strong part of their culture. Quote:
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2013-01-31, 07:51 | Link #5802 | ||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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it's another to force your perspective on Orb and act like they share your perspective. |
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2013-01-31, 09:51 | Link #5803 | |||||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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And? The point remains that Uzumi didn't break the third ideal right? That was your original point.
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The point is that the people are more likely to blame the Earth Alliance and not the ideals. That alone is not enough to give them the willpower to go against the treaty if it means another invasion. However under the following context... Quote:
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I'm not disagreeing with what Orb did. I'm saying that what Orb did is out of character and explaining why. From my perspective, Orb shouldn't act the way they did.
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2013-01-31, 12:19 | Link #5804 | |
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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Orb acted out of the Uzumi's administration's/Family Ideals since Cagalli somehow lost her brains and let the Seiran family seize power overnight. if you recall the arguments the parliament/high council had in seed, with Uzumi seeming to be the only one determinated on how to handle things, with his death Cagalli carried her fathers ideals in her administration, Until Destiny mindf*cked her into stupidity. |
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2013-01-31, 14:02 | Link #5805 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2013-01-31, 14:57 | Link #5806 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Again, I am aware of that. But given the whole context of Orb, I still think a 180 degree turn around is out of character. Heck the treaty could still go ahead but I'd still expect major polarizations and dissension.
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2013-01-31, 15:43 | Link #5808 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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A mere two years?
If a country were to be invaded and then gain it's country back, there would be massive amounts of weapon stockpiling and increases to military budgeting like you would not believe.
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2013-01-31, 16:14 | Link #5809 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Also remember that the EA defeated Orb 2 years ago with only a small portion of their military force after they've been fighting in a war for nearly a year and after they've just sacrificed another, bigger, portion of their fleet at Alaska, and while they're still fighting the war elsewhere. |
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2013-01-31, 17:16 | Link #5811 | ||
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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Uzumi being in charge = Following his ideal and defending it even if the nation burns to the ground following the very same ideal. Yuuna/Seiran's being in charge = Following their ideal (As in joining the alliance to avoid having Orb turn into a battlefield again, Seiran's being the cowards they where shown to be picked survival at any cost and to abandon Orb's ideal. (As shown several times in Destiny aswell, the Orb military mainly follows the Seiran ideal) Quote:
Also, we're forgetting that while Orb is a small country, it does have a mass-driver and a top-notch military (including military factories) i'm quite sure the EA would love to get their hands on, with or without Orb's civilians |
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2013-02-01, 05:45 | Link #5813 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Plus when I was talking about 180 degree reversal, I was also talking about the civilians. Unlike the party system in America, the Seirans weren't elected and technically Cagalli was still the Chief Representative (amazingly enough). Deterrence has always been a timeless strategy in foreign policy. I don't know what you're talking about.
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2013-02-01, 06:47 | Link #5814 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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To take an example from SEED: Even after Uzumi destroyed what the AF came for, the EA didn't just leave, they still went on to conquer Orb. |
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2013-02-01, 08:48 | Link #5815 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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I thought they couldn't use nuclear weapons on Earth? The the Destroy mobile suits were only found out later.
The EA went on to conquer Orb because there was no resistance and they couldn't just leave it alone to become a possible site for resistance, plus there would've been a lot of other things like data and military info that the EA could use that they might as well take. The fact is, EA didn't really get anything out of Orb except a hell of a lot of irritation so if anything the EA should've been even more deterred.
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2013-02-01, 14:07 | Link #5816 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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They could.
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The Destroy incident in Berlin is an example of what the EA does to anyone who doesn't keep in line with them. |
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2013-02-01, 14:32 | Link #5817 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
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Wasn't it that the fall of Junius 7 heavily affected Orb? I mean we see Kira and the others hiding in shelters so I guess Orb was heavily affected by the terrorist act. The Destroy incident seemed more like something Logos would make.
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2013-02-01, 14:53 | Link #5818 | ||||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Now the whole Destiny conflict looks even more ridiculous...
Did Orb have nuclear weapons too? Had nobody heard of MAD in tha story or something? Quote:
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And deterrence is hardly Russian roulette you know... Quote:
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2013-02-01, 15:03 | Link #5819 | ||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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You need an NJC for nuclear weapons to work, which I don't believe Orb has. Also, Orb is certainly not the kind of country to use such weapons.
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Keep in mind that the evacuation mentioned in SEED was about evacuating civilians from near the battle sites to other islands in Orb. But the EA eventually took over Orb anyway. Quote:
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2013-02-02, 05:26 | Link #5820 | |||||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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mecha, seed it and weep |
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