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Koveras Alvane · 2012-12-30, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

Well, they are just 21 but later Jail made more so I don't know if those ones count

There are 21 on Earth in season one. It is possible that there are more in the Bureau's custody (where Scaglietti could have stolen them from) or elsewhere in the universe. I wouldn't put it past him to just replicate them, however.

Sansker · 2013-01-01, 21:40

I think they did say he made those. Otherwise I don't get how the jewels could be so weak and use as AAA batteries for some robots.

al103 · 2013-01-02, 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

I think they did say he made those. Otherwise I don't get how the jewels could be so weak and use as AAA batteries for some robots.

It wasn't perfectly shown but it looked like that were not full jewel seeds, but minor circuity-scale bits put in said circuity.

Sansker · 2013-01-02, 10:04

But I do remember Fate saying that those things were Jewel Seeds, explaining to Shari that she and Nanoha use to collect them. So maybe they weren’t the real thing at all and were part of the Jailtech that works so well for gadget drones.

Kaijo · 2013-01-02, 20:14

They looked like jewel seeds, and Fate tells Yuuno that some went missing. But for every drone to have one, means Jail either found tons more, or was able to build some copies after studying the originals. My guess is on the latter.

Rising Dragon · 2013-01-02, 20:26

I suppose if Jail was able to replicate them, the Jewel Seeds are not quite Lost Logia anymore? Part of the attributes for the Lost Logia classification is that people are unable to recreate them, I'm told.

Sansker · 2013-01-02, 22:40

But Jail is the greatest expert on Lost Logia. Maybe he create weaker approximations to the originals.

Akiyoshi · 2013-01-03, 01:25

I can agree with Sansker's theory, considering the original Jewel Seeds were Lost Logia so unstable and hard to control that they could alter the fabric of reality itself i doubt the ones found on the drones were the real deal ...maybe a revised and controlled counterfeit/replica who is weaker but much more stable and usable.

In fact, for a "girly" season as the original show was, the Jewel Seeds are maybe on of the most powerfull lost logia in canon to date, there's a reason why they never got used by anyone but Precia. Kind of reminds me of an interesting doujinshi of an Evil Nanoha coming from a parallel universe who curbstomps freking everyone just by herself because her version of Rising Heart was somehow modified to use all 21 original Jewel Seed as a powersource ...and they're like a billion times more pwoerfull than puny cartridges.

Koveras Alvane · 2013-01-03, 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

But Jail is the greatest expert on Lost Logia. Maybe he create weaker approximations to the originals.

That is the most likely explanation. Jail needed a power source for the Type III Gadgets (the big fat ones), so he put Jewel Seeds into them. However, seeing how there are many more Type IIIs than Jewel Seeds, he was probably able to find a cheaper power device later on.

The only problem is why he would assign one of the older prototype Seed-powered Type IIIs to the train smuggling mission. Unless he specifically wanted RF6 to find them...

bhl88 · 2013-01-03, 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I can agree with Sansker's theory, considering the original Jewel Seeds were Lost Logia so unstable and hard to control that they could alter the fabric of reality itself i doubt the ones found on the drones were the real deal ...maybe a revised and controlled counterfeit/replica who is weaker but much more stable and usable.

In fact, for a "girly" season as the original show was, the Jewel Seeds are maybe on of the most powerfull lost logia in canon to date, there's a reason why they never got used by anyone but Precia. Kind of reminds me of an interesting doujinshi of an Evil Nanoha coming from a parallel universe who curbstomps freking everyone just by herself because her version of Rising Heart was somehow modified to use all 21 original Jewel Seed as a powersource ...and they're like a billion times more pwoerfull than puny cartridges.

Then she ****-***es them?

Rising Dragon · 2013-01-03, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

The only problem is why he would assign one of the older prototype Seed-powered Type IIIs to the train smuggling mission. Unless he specifically wanted RF6 to find them...

Isn't that basically the conclusion Fate reached with Shari? Basically him wanting them to find them, sending them the message "Look what I can do!"?

bhl88 · 2013-01-03, 07:12

Or he wanted credit: "These are my inventions and I'm a mad scientist."

Sansker · 2013-01-03, 11:30

He did put his name on the things so could be just his ego. I mean talking about the few things a villain should never do "put your name on your robots" should ne one of them. At least he didn't call them "Jailbots"

Koveras Alvane · 2013-01-03, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

At least he didn't call them "Jailbots"

Those would be the Numbers. Oh wait, you said Jailbots.

Sansker · 2013-01-03, 20:01

Well consider Jail's obsession with ancient tech and put young girls nude in jars I didn't think that was a good name

Kaijo · 2013-01-03, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

I suppose if Jail was able to replicate them, the Jewel Seeds are not quite Lost Logia anymore? Part of the attributes for the Lost Logia classification is that people are unable to recreate them, I'm told.

Who says they were full versions of the originals? My guess is that they were simply poorer copies, limited in what they could do. They were, if nothing else, a portal energy source... something that might be needed to generate an anti-magic field.

As far as the definition of lost logia, it was my understanding it was just a term for ancient technology left over from a civilization. Whether or not it could be replicated, would seem to make it immaterial. I presume that, with enough study, any piece of lost logia could be replicated.

The Dividers could be seen as lost logia, too, and there are replicas of them.

Keroko · 2013-01-05, 08:20

Guys, guys, Q&A remember? Facts or "we don't know" should be the tools of the trade here, not speculation.

BeastsLair's Fraggle · 2013-01-05, 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Guys, guys, Q&A remember? Facts or "we don't know" should be the tools of the trade here, not speculation.

Yeah, while this discussion was very interesting I still haven't found a decent list on the jewel seeds that appeared in Nanoha season 1.

Sansker · 2013-01-05, 22:06

What do you mean by list? Were just 21, number from I to XXI, and that is it

Koveras Alvane · 2013-01-06, 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

What do you mean by list? Were just 21, number from I to XXI, and that is it

I think Fraggle was interested in where each of the Seeds appeared (in which episode, under which circumstances) and how it was sealed.

2013-01-01, 21:40	Link #4202
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	I think they did say he made those. Otherwise I don't get how the jewels could be so weak and use as AAA batteries for some robots. __________________

2013-01-02, 10:04	Link #4204
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	But I do remember Fate saying that those things were Jewel Seeds, explaining to Shari that she and Nanoha use to collect them. So maybe they weren’t the real thing at all and were part of the Jailtech that works so well for gadget drones. __________________

2013-01-02, 20:26	Link #4206
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	I suppose if Jail was able to replicate them, the Jewel Seeds are not quite Lost Logia anymore? Part of the attributes for the Lost Logia classification is that people are unable to recreate them, I'm told. __________________

2013-01-02, 22:40	Link #4207
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	But Jail is the greatest expert on Lost Logia. Maybe he create weaker approximations to the originals. __________________

2013-01-03, 01:25	Link #4208
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	I can agree with Sansker's theory, considering the original Jewel Seeds were Lost Logia so unstable and hard to control that they could alter the fabric of reality itself i doubt the ones found on the drones were the real deal ...maybe a revised and controlled counterfeit/replica who is weaker but much more stable and usable. In fact, for a "girly" season as the original show was, the Jewel Seeds are maybe on of the most powerfull lost logia in canon to date, there's a reason why they never got used by anyone but Precia. Kind of reminds me of an interesting doujinshi of an Evil Nanoha coming from a parallel universe who curbstomps freking everyone just by herself because her version of Rising Heart was somehow modified to use all 21 original Jewel Seed as a powersource ...and they're like a billion times more pwoerfull than puny cartridges. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2013-01-02, 20:14	Link #4205
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	They looked like jewel seeds, and Fate tells Yuuno that some went missing. But for every drone to have one, means Jail either found tons more, or was able to build some copies after studying the originals. My guess is on the latter.

2013-01-03, 07:12	Link #4212
bhl88 Otaku Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Unseen Horizon	Or he wanted credit: "These are my inventions and I'm a mad scientist." __________________ OS-tan Collections (temporary): https://discord.gg/Hv2rBs3

2013-01-03, 11:30	Link #4213
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	He did put his name on the things so could be just his ego. I mean talking about the few things a villain should never do "put your name on your robots" should ne one of them. At least he didn't call them "Jailbots" __________________

2013-01-03, 20:01	Link #4215
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Well consider Jail's obsession with ancient tech and put young girls nude in jars I didn't think that was a good name __________________

2013-01-05, 08:20	Link #4217
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Guys, guys, Q&A remember? Facts or "we don't know" should be the tools of the trade here, not speculation.

2013-01-05, 22:06	Link #4219
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	What do you mean by list? Were just 21, number from I to XXI, and that is it __________________