(L+CR) Arpeggio of blue steel

[DLRevan]

Originally Posted by lfhoule

I haven't gotten that deep into the manga at this point, but I noticed another interesting thing under the blue box: Fog surface ships are able to MOVE UNDERWATER??? How? Because generally when surface ships move underwater, they're usually sinking?

Surface ships sink when they're underwater because they're designed to be surface ships. If you have a air-tight seal (or no significant internal compartments to flood, if the ship doesn't need air to float) and some way to adjust buoyancy, there's no fundamental difference between that and a sub. Since the Fog have no need for exterior openings for 'crew', weapon hardpoints are armored and they have something called....gravitic baffles (first episode)...there's no reason they can't.

"Surface" fog ships are slow underwater though, and aren't anywhere as stealthy as fog subs.

[Top Sergeant]

Originally Posted by DLRevan

"Surface" fog ships are slow underwater though, and aren't anywhere as stealthy as fog subs.

Also, the non-torpedo weapons of Fog surface ships (such as the cannon) may not be able to fire while the vessel is submerged. So far they have only been depicted fighting while afloat.

[gaiar31]

Anime ver. don't has Ship's emblem on mental model too. Manga ver. It's alway showimg in full function mode.

[MrTerrorist]

^I see nothing.

[Tim yy]

RIP the pictures....& sorry about my previous posts

Did they mention anywhere in the anime that ships other than submarines will not be able to use most of their weaponry while submerged?

[Tenzen12]

Nope. But it's not like it was needed so far.

[DLRevan]

Originally Posted by Tim yy

RIP the pictures....& sorry about my previous posts

Did they mention anywhere in the anime that ships other than submarines will not be able to use most of their weaponry while submerged?

Other than there's been no need to depict 'surface' vessels diving yet, I don't see why not. Iona uses presumably the same type of beam weaponry underwater, and obviously torpedoes and the super gravitic cannons are not an issue. They can't use the drones most likely, but that's about it.

The downsides are most likely the low speed, maybe maneuverability loss and lack of stealth. We'll find out next month anyway.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by DLRevan

Other than there's been no need to depict 'surface' vessels diving yet, I don't see why not. Iona uses presumably the same type of beam weaponry underwater, and obviously torpedoes and the super gravitic cannons are not an issue. They can't use the drones most likely, but that's about it.

The downsides are most likely the low speed, maybe maneuverability loss and lack of stealth. We'll find out next month anyway.

I don't think Iona has any beam wepons beyond the salvaged gravity cannon.

[Tenzen12]

Beams does loose it's efectivity under watter though...

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by kagato3

I don't think Iona has any beam wepons beyond the salvaged gravity cannon.

She has several, just not as massive.

[ZabiLegacy]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Beams does loose it's efectivity under watter though...

Not true. They state in the manga that you could effectively fire a beam half a world away. The issue is less the weapon's range and more the capacity to aim in any discernible matter as range increases.

[Tenzen12]

They didn't talked about laser beams but Heavy gravitional cannon and it also was said HGC can be used under water by Kongou. She noted she could use only HGC and torpedos s which meaubmerged which means lasers couldn't be used. That much are facts from manga you talking about.

And for lasers in real life they does loose it's efectivity under water, that's physic as far as I know (though it would be good if someone better versed could confirm it for me). Gravitational waves follow different rules that clasic beams.

[Random Wanderer]

Any laser powerful enough to be used as a weapon would not be affected in any significant way by the water. At that level of power the diffusion properties of water would cease to be notable. Technically yes, the water would still have some effect, but it would take a computer to measure it, and would be less than negligible at the ranges they fight at. Of course, the question of whether or not the author knows enough to realize that is still up in the air.

They would be better off if they were using blue-green lasers rather than red ones, but they're still powerful enough that the water simply isn't going to count as an obstacle.

[00Zy99]

Originally Posted by ZabiLegacy

Not true. They state in the manga that you could effectively fire a beam half a world away. The issue is less the weapon's range and more the capacity to aim in any discernible matter as range increases.

What page and what chapter was this stated in?

[Myssa Rei]

Originally Posted by 00idiot

What page and what chapter was this stated in?

Uhm, manga stuff. Relentless might drop by again, so...

[Tim yy]

Notice the battleships in the anime had concussion shells and the guided shells that fires plasma beams downwards. I don't think those will work on a submerged ship as well.

I wonder what will be the name of the weapon Kirishima used against 401 that sent a massive shockwave in all directions. It's like a shockwave-drill-pump of some type.

[Tenzen12]

I don't think technical stuff count as spoiler (though in case of Relentless one can't be never sure) ad long as it's not some kind of secret technology.

[DLRevan]

Originally Posted by Tim yy

Notice the battleships in the anime had concussion shells and the guided shells that fires plasma beams downwards. I don't think those will work on a submerged ship as well.

I wonder what will be the name of the weapon Kirishima used against 401 that sent a massive shockwave in all directions. It's like a shockwave-drill-pump of some type.

Just seems to be a simple sonic weapon. If it were possible with our current technology, it would be a simple but devastating weapon, since water is not compressible. One wonders why it isn't used more often, it would have wrecked Iona when she passed under Kirishima. Or maybe its not effective against wave-force armor.

On the beam weapons, as random wanderer mentioned, weapon-grade lasers aren't significantly impeded by water as long as you use certain wavelengths. Its one of the most annoyingly widely accepted sci-fi untruths, at least to me. Any laser is 'impeded' by passing through a medium, you get the same, but probably lesser, effect from air.

Anyway, my rationale for underwater lasers (assuming thats what they are, I refereed to them as 'beam' before in case they're particle cannons) is Iona firing them in the OP. Since we're using anime material here. I also think its highly unlikely that the beam can pass through water, but the projector itself can't be fired underwater. (Kirishima firing at Iona)

[Tim yy]

Just seems to be a simple sonic weapon. If it were possible with our current technology, it would be a simple but devastating weapon, since water is not compressible. One wonders why it isn't used more often, it would have wrecked Iona when she passed under Kirishima. Or maybe its not effective against wave-force armor.

Thanks for the explanation.
I think sonic weapons would be effective against wave-force armor indeed. Isn't the vibration torpedo (from the manga and anime) works on the same mechanic?

[DLRevan]

Originally Posted by Tim yy

Thanks for the explanation.
I think sonic weapons would be effective against wave-force armor indeed. Isn't the vibration torpedo (from the manga and anime) works on the same mechanic?

No. Assuming my speculation of the type of weapon it is is correct, it's not the same.

The thing Kirishima used seems like it just applies a huge amount of vibration energy into the water. It wouldn't be unlike any other kind of shockwave in air, but it would be more devastating in water than air (higher energy efficiency) . An effective weapon, if you had enough energy and an emitter that could dish it out. It would be very similar to being hit by a huge object, only the huge object is water.

The vibration warhead is also a type of sonic weapon but relies on the concept of resonance. If you could find out the resonance frequency of a material and then oscillate (vibrate) it at that frequency, the amplitude of of the oscillation would be infinite, or near infinite. In other words, it would vibrate so hard that it would get torn to pieces, even if you didn't apply a huge amount of energy. That's why high pitched sounds can break glass, even if they're too low energy to actually move anything else. So its different from Kirishima's weapon.


In practice, objects made up of multiple materials often have multiple resonance frequencies and its not so easily calculated, so its a little dubious as a weapon. I'd also expect the fog ships to have some dampening, which reduces resonance vibrations. It's not totally implausible though, structures like buildings and bridges have collapsed before due to resonance from wind or ground vibrations. Modern engineers always have to take it into account when constructing any kind of structure.