2010-10-21, 14:33 | Link #18161 | |
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To solve the mystery of who killed Beatrice, Will didn't really have to touch the original four episodes at all. He did so to allow Beatrice a peaceful rest, because he's a nice guy.
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2010-10-21, 15:03 | Link #18162 |
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Yes, but you can't actually question characters in a story. Granted, we have no idea if ep7 is a story at all (it has not been presented as such, unlike other episodes where some sort of external authorship is suggested). So for all we know it's the meta-fictional exercise of meta-fictional exercises, and Will is given the opportunity to ask literary characters questions, which one normally wouldn't be able to do (for obvious reasons), but for which certain models of exposition are possible (such as dialogue with the author as to his intentions for the characters).
But then you get something like Kinzo's story which can only really make sense as researched (and potentially embellished) information or a blatant speculative fabrication. You can definitely read ep7 as a meta-fictional exchange like any other episode (much like how you can read ep1 as such even though it doesn't contain any in-text elements that confirm it), but it isn't like any other episode, so whatever kind of exchange it may be, it isn't the same kind. I'd also question being too dismissive of Will's desire for appropriate closure. In three places, he doesn't like leaving a story on the wrong footing: He exonerates someone on the basis that a good story wouldn't make them guilty, he wants to resolve things for Claire by providing actual answers, and he wants to preserve the happiness of Lion's story. This is an essential personality quirk of his. One could even call it a personality flaw from a certain perspective. Notice that he gets annoyed when it appears that answers are evasive (Shannon, Maria). His dissatisfaction with the "endings" his work was providing also seem to have been the prime motivating factor in his resignation. His sentimentality could well be clouding his judgment, or making him misjudge a story (if nothing else, Bern seems to be able to defeat him). It's an enjoyable personality flaw that makes him likable as a character, but it may also paint him as someone with very strong literary preferences which may or may not be working to his own benefit.
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2010-10-21, 21:34 | Link #18163 | |
The True Culprit
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2010-10-22, 09:55 | Link #18164 | |
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What I mean is, Will appears to be a representative of a higher-order fiction (whether that's the "true" meta-world or "reality" or neither is irrelevant) within a lower-order fiction setting. His interviews with the characters he meets at the chapel strike me less as the detective in a mystery interviewing suspects (that is, characters on the same "layer" discussing information they know) and more someone on a "higher" level poking and prodding at the "pieces" in a way that has normally not generally been allowed without "pulling" the pieces up to a higher layer (as in ep5). Will is clearly operating on knowledge nobody else in that setting has. He has access to the Beatrice stories and tries to pry into discrepancies between the worlds (the seating order, etc.). Normally a detective within the story lacks that advantage. So it's like Will is himself in a story, but there's stories below that, some of which he can question directly (the chapel layer), some he can't (Kinzo's flashback, which technically derives from questioning but isn't as subject to direct questioning).
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2010-10-22, 14:51 | Link #18165 |
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Well, being a meta-character, it's not like this is really all that much of an issue. I get what you're saying, but he's ultimately able to get this information because it's being given to him out of his inquiry. I don't think he can obtain anything that the theoretical "Author" doesn't want him to know, whether that author is Bern, or someone else.
Or he was just written to have this knowledge, continuity be damned. |
2010-10-22, 15:13 | Link #18166 |
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Well yeah, but he also seems to know that.
He's been presented with the scenario "You can interview these characters to find out what I've asked you to solve!" yet there are times where, clearly, he isn't allowed access to certain information. I believe he even comments on this when Maria runs off. So what level of characterization is he operating on? Higher than Lion's world, apparently (though Lion himself seems to operate on the same level as Will), yet probably lower than Bern's. And what about Battler's? He "buries" a book in a chapel, and suddenly we're in a chapel for a funeral (yet one which apparently has nothing to do with him as far as we know). Will's definitely in some kind of middle layer, higher than some, lower than others. But whether his collection of layers are all part of some story, I'm not really sure.
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2010-10-24, 19:26 | Link #18167 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Haven't been here in forever, but decided to read some things to see the current state of Umineko theories.
Just a thought, if we do make choices, it feels to me like the most logical way it would work is that we control "Ange" and make choices on a more Meta level. She's the one most in position of deciding the "accepted truth" so I think it makes sense. |
2010-10-25, 17:12 | Link #18177 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
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Hehehehe Angeburgers
Seriously tho, Meta Ange did become Angeburgers before, so why couldn't she again? There's also the possibility of having to be both a meta character and a "future" character at the same time, with the possibility of dying anytime in the future. Edit: I'm not really sure where else to write/ask this. I'm very much assuming that PS3 Umineko won't be translated (that's fine) but is there a japan release date announced ? |
2010-10-25, 19:26 | Link #18179 |
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That's not a necessarily good reason. Many seems to wish for it and so everything you said ends up meaning "because I wouldn't like it" and that's not a very good reason.
Also I find it really odd to complain about the repetitive death of a character... in Umineko. |
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