Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll

[Kaioshin Sama]

Well having a chance to really sit down to the sub version, I think the biggest fault of this episode is that they arguably crammed the Setsuna meeting Marina moment into the episode when there was no real reason to. They did establish some importance between them in that Azeidistan appeared to be the country Setsuna was fighting against. Perhaps his grudge against them is what made him try to intimidate Marina and thus reveal his identity to her as a childish method of making her fear the cub that now has fangs. He's bringing his personal grudges up front almost constantly so it wouldn't surprise me. Anyone from his past shows up and he immediately pursues the vendetta like at the end with the plane. It's well within the bounds of Setsuna's established character.

However, this episode was also supposed to be about the terrorism, and that felt overlooked quite a bit. The terorrists aren't evem given a face other than a vague name and as such pass by this episode as mere target practice. This episode should have been all about the terrorists, and then perhaps at the end they might have wanted to introduce Setsuna to Marina, but not smack in the middle.

As for the fanservice people think is out of place. Think back to last episode when Sumeragi was worried about Felt and Christina. This is her way, however strange, of letting them take the edge off. She doesn't want them witnessing this latest battle as operators lest they become further desensitized to the violence.

Had they not tried to do to much with this episode it would not have felt as unevenly paced as some said (well obviously), but it sure made it go by quick.

[Hage-bai]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

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The series wouldn't be getting nearly as much praise if it wasn't Gundam. I think anime fans rate this show highly based on brand recognition alone: Gundam by Sunrise and all that. The point is that Gundam originated as a giant robot show that has morthed into the super robot show. Add that with bad and jumpy pacing along with a darth of character development and you've got yourself a donut. It was a chore to watch epiosde 8 and left me feeling like I've just watched filler. I basically watch this because it's Gundam and I'm hoping it'll get better and more cohesive. I'm been watching Higurashi, ef - A Tale of Memories, and CLANNAD and those shows make me feel anticipated for each new episode to come. Gundamm 00 is the most hyped show of the season and it is failing to deliver compared to other shows that have less money, hype and brand recognition to work with.

Gundam 00 is getting away with flaws other shows would have been ripped to shreds 10 times over.

While i understand your frustration..i don't understand how you can add the most boring show of the season..CLANNAD into a discussion. Gundam 00 blows that pile of dung they call a love game adaption out of the water.

[lubczyk]

Originally Posted by Hage-bai

While i understand your frustration..i don't understand how you can add the most boring show of the season..CLANNAD into a discussion. Gundam 00 blows that pile of dung they call a love game adaption out of the water.

It's funny how people these days can't keep an attention span of over 5 minutes. There must be constant visual stimulation, because lord knows they can't absorb the plot elements and themes that are subtlely thrown at them. Everything must have constant cuts going from scene to scene in rapid succession because taking time to take in a scene is "boring." Gundam 00 - Gundam for the ADD generation. Not a jab at you, but it seems to you like you're not used to reading long novels or intricate stories and seeing how they play out.

[Hage-bai]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

It's funny how people these days can't keep an attention span of over 5 minutes. There must be constant visual stimulation, because lord knows they can't absorb the plot elements and themes that are subtlely thrown at them. Everything must have constant cuts going from scene to scene in rapid succession because taking time to take in a scene is "boring." Gundam 00 - Gundam for the ADD generation. Not a jab at you, but it seems to you like you're not used to reading long novels or intricate stories and seeing how they play out.

The animation is admittedly excellent. But the plotline however dramatic it may seem is one dimensional and not particularly suspensful. What really dooms it is its repetitious story-line. You're right, i don't have the patience to watch a loli girl hand out wooden starfish carvings for 4 to 5 whole episodes.

[lubczyk]

Originally Posted by Hage-bai

The animation is admittedly excellent. But the plotline however dramatic it may seem is one dimensional and not particularly suspensful. What really dooms it is its repetitious story-line. You're right, i don't have the patience to watch a loli girl hand out wooden starfish carvings for 4 to 5 whole episodes.

You're only looking at the art, you have to look at the meaning beneath the art. You have to look at the purpose of each character in the story and not just the actions they perform at face value. the point of the story, just like in Kanon and Air, will come much later. It's not going to come and smack you in the face with a Gundam battle every episode without any hint of subtlety.

[Papaya]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

You're only looking at the art, you have to look at the meaning beneath the art. You have to look at the purpose of each character in the story and not just the actions they perform at face value. the point of the story, just like in Kanon and Air, will come much later. It's not going to come and smack you in the face with a Gundam battle every episode without any hint of subtlety.

Well, those are hopes and dreams.
If we're lucky the storyline will get deeper as we go.

But you have to admit, most of the episodes so far have basically been filler. You could probably count the number of really significant moments so far on two hands. If they ever make a compilation movie, you can bet most of the first few eps will be missing =P

[lubczyk]

Originally Posted by Papaya

Well, those are hopes and dreams.
If we're lucky the storyline will get deeper as we go.

But you have to admit, most of the episodes so far have basically been filler. You could probably count the number of really significant moments so far on two hands. If they ever make a compilation movie, you can bet most of the first few eps will be missing =P

Those first few episodes in CLANNAD are exposition. The problem with Gundam 00 is that we're still in the exposition stage at episode 8.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Papaya

But you have to admit, most of the episodes so far have basically been filler.

What? Everything we've seen so far in Gundam 00 to me has been rather important to the overall story. You saying that has me believing you want something else from this series.

[Papaya]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

What? Everything we've seen so far in Gundam 00 to me has been rather important to the overall story. You saying that has me believing you want something else from this series.

No, most of what we've seen supplement the political situation, not the actual story.
Actual character or plot developments have been few and far in-between.

You could cut out the majority of scenes so far and still have a understandable (and probably more fluid) continuation of the story.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Papaya

No, most of what we've seen supplement the political situation, not the actual story.
Actual character or plot developments have been few and far in-between.

You could cut out the majority of scenes so far and still have a understandable (and probably more fluid) continuation of the story.

But how? the political development is one of the key points of the story line and is needed for the story to progress. The political aspect is the story in a way what do you think the Gundam meisters are fighting aganist more than anything else? Not mobile suits there isnt one that can touch a Gundam (at the moment) Its the political fallout from their actions and what is standing in their way is politics. Just my opinion but i dont feel anything has been a filler.

[Traece]

I'm one of those people who likes to take in every aspect of what he's dealing with. I don't pay attention to the difference between story and filler because to me the filler has an importance too. I've always felt that Gundam 00 has a wonderful balance of politics, actions, and character description. Some characters have yet to really be revealed, but the ones who have obviously have deep stories behind them. One other good aspect of the show is that there's a lot of details being kept from the viewers. We don't know who half the Gundam Meisters really are, we don't know a great deal about Celestial Being, we don't really have an idea of how things will play out either. It's nice to watch an anime that hasn't revealed the ending in the first three episodes. If it pans out, two characters, battling, good and evil: Good guy wins. Pretty much what can be expected, like Mobile Suit Gundam and Gundam Seed. Gundam 00 leaves a lot for interpretation, from character backgrounds to the entire play out of the anime, while still putting in the minimum amount of information a viewer requires before he/she gets confused and lost.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I don't know about that. The writing in Gundam 00 has been pretty consistently poor so far; it's just that it's much much worse for this episode. At this rate, I'm not sure if I wouldn't prefer having Morosawa replace him...

I meant inconsistent in regards to Kuroda's variation in script quality from anime to anime. And really, in shows where his stuff is bad, they get really bad. I don't think its at that point for Gundam 00. But its certainly not one of his better shows.

By the way, even though Kuroda is the only writer credited in this show, writing isn't done in a vacuum, so it'd be normal for the story ideas, characters, and what not to be explored by several staff members. It might not be the case for Gundam 00, but I think that it's safe to say that Kuroda doesn't deserve all of the credit or blame for the quality of the writing.

Conceptual planning might have been handled by a variety of individual, but Kuroda IS the only one credited for story and script, and Mizushima made it clear that Kuroda "is writing this" and Kuroda "is writing that" in his interviews.

Though I guess some of the constraints imposed on him due to the Gundam label might have affected him, just like it did with the Seed writing staff.

[Tangerine]

Kuroda sucks

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by Tangerine

Kuroda sucks

well, he actually has a pretty good track record.

hardly call him terrible, though brightman is also right.

[Kageh]

The transitions in this ep were pretty weak. WTF at Setsuna flat out telling someone who he is and what he does.

None of these pilots seem justified.

"I AM Gundam."

No, seriously, dude, you shouldn't be piloting that thing... none of them should be.

Hmm, I guess it's easier to write a Gundam plot where the pilot never had much of a choice to begin with. I can't believe these chumps would ever get selected though.

[wingdarkness]

Forgive me but I have read no posts in this thread before posting...

Well it had to happen ....Sighs, IMO this was the worse episode of the season...While watching the raw I felt like it was below-average episode and the subs only reinforced that opinion (If Shinsen did infact sub it well)...Really surprised by the high rankings this week...

Let me start by saying the 30 secs of Graham talking to his team while flying in his Custom Flag was my favorite part of the entire episode...His words, while limited, are so profound and gives me a smile...Can't wait til he gets integrated into the plotline some more...He's the only character that owns the character IMHO...He commands the screen and I wish they give him more time, quickly...

I also liked Sanji's and his sister conversation about what ending wars really means...But that's about it...

As for the episode itself, it was just too pretentious and too easily executed...The biggest question that just last week I thought would SHAPE the series was answered and a$$-kicked all in one foul swoop (literally in some cases)...I don't know what a biometric is, but if all you have to do is get one of them and intern you can expose complete terror cells and organizations then the entire premise of using indiscriminate terrorism as a viable combative assault was a bad joke (perhaps worse than the one Marina thought Setsuna told her)...I honestly thought this would be a long and complex arc of trying to figure out who these guys were (Thought maybe Setsuna was going on some real reconnaissance missions--or that this was what it would take to solve this terrorism case)....I was quite disappointed that Setsuna in a banana-cycle just chasing some dude would be the key in taking down the ENTIRE PREMISE of this predicament...Add to that the contrived circumstances of him meeting Marina and the totally idiotic and beyond stupefying admittance of his codename and position within CB made me cringe...

I mean c'mon, you just let a student with a gun shooting at cars go because some guy in a limo says "He's with us..." (I thought I was watching GSD)...I was defiantly waiting for Lacus to roll down the window...Then on impulse or on some ungodly advice he just tells this chick (Who's a nation-head regardless of pure ability) who he is and what he does?? Wow, then once the magical MacIntosh deciphers the info, they send Team Gundam to every terror cell and that's that...Lockon's battle was so badly executed and trite it made me a bit upset...The way those Mobile suits flew toward him like the Pacman ghosts after they recharge was just ghey...They were all like, "Please Mr. Lockon just easily frag me while you're lost in a character flashback dream sequence...Matter-o-fact, just take your time and put your sniper rifle on your shoulder, we got all day"...The choreography that's been awesome in recent weeks was non-existent...Now the underwater fight with Exia salvaged some things, but it seems Exia is the only Gundam with anyone willing to even make an attempt at fighting...


Some other things that irked me...As much as I loved to see it, there is something a bit ridiculous about the symmetry between taking out a terrorist faction and girls wearing coochie-tight shorts on the beach getting some rays or scuba diving with the exotic fishees...Thought the girls were hawt (The chick not named Felt or Sumeragi surprising hawt), but still it felt so outta place while not feeling like overt fanservice....Also the whole Gundam face in your airplane window was too OVER THE TOP...One episode ago these two people didn't know each other...Setsuna all but tells her her nation will taste the wrath of Gundam, yet you want me to embrace this ridiculous expressionism of the Gundam watching over her with this air of romance to it aswell...They over-forced it..

Gave the ep a 6 on the strength of the series at-large (Not to mention amazing HQ of HD RAW), but I prolly should have graded it a bit lower..Kinda surprised by the names I saw giving this ep some high markings...It'll be interesting to read the defense of this poorly executed episode IMO...I do have faith and next ep preview looks awesome, but this episode felt too relaxed, too easy, and obviously too contrived in a few areas...I think Liu Ming used her implied powers to re-write this episode unfortunatley...

[Kinku]

Why did Setsuna told marina he was part of CB ..plus he flys one of the gundams..im sure everyone think it was dumb but really if u listen to thier conversation i think better now than later. Marina was worried that the CB would intervene in her country conflict and cause terror and chaos...she actaully mention if CB think themselves as gods. Now she speaking to a guy First doesnt believe in god.. second was part of a war between his country and hers since his childhood. IF u put urself in his shoes i would tell her too. I be like..."Thats rite im CB and i bust a cap on ur country if you dont behave" beside who going to belive a princess from a country falling apart about a teenager being part of CB. LOL she cant even get help for her country.

Setsuna i really like his character cause i feel the same way same with what CB doing in GUNDAM 00 world. Peace talk all its just for news papers and politcal gain.. in the back ground people are actually getting killed and having thier lively hood taken away. Marina mention that there was peace talk in the end of the war... but how many people die already. I think Setsuna just want to show Marina that CB are not gods or people who think them selves higher beings... just normal people doing everything they can to stop war no matter what


BUT him flying over her airplane was dumb imo...he should have already proven his point why expose him self to civilans

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

You're only looking at the art, you have to look at the meaning beneath the art. You have to look at the purpose of each character in the story and not just the actions they perform at face value. the point of the story, just like in Kanon and Air, will come much later. It's not going to come and smack you in the face with a Gundam battle every episode without any hint of subtlety.

Your basically using a two way street here though. Your assuming Clannad will automatically blossom into a masterpiece of subtle artistry while Gundam 00 cannot and are not allowing Gundam 00 a fair chance. I'd also argue that Clannad can be just as pandering as Gundam can to it's target audience, with it's in own variety of in your face elements. You say people are giving Gundam 00 too much leeway, but aren't you doing the same when you describe Clannad as if it were immune to the same things you say are killing Gundam, which aren't even really flaws. For instance, perhaps Clannad won't "smack you in the face" with a Gundam battle every episode, but it will give you a text overlay, Tomoyo combo kicking and Sunohara getting pummeled moment just as often as the next episode, along with lots of moe fetish moments. That's the nature of it's beast though, as are the skirmishs in Gundam. See a lot of the things you point to as flaws in Gundam 00 also apply to Clannad and many other shows.

You're willing to look at Gundam 00 and it's characters at face value, but somehow Clannad must be given a deeper look. And don't tell me Gundam 00 doesn't have it's beneath the surface things that are hinted at either, because it does.

[lubczyk]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Your basically using a two way street here though. Your assuming Clannad will automatically blossom into a masterpiece of subtle artistry while Gundam 00 cannot and are not allowing Gundam 00 a fair chance. I'd also argue that Clannad can be just as pandering as Gundam can to it's target audience, with it's in own variety of in your face elements. You say people are giving Gundam 00 too much leeway, but aren't you doing the same when you describe Clannad as if it were immune to the same things you say are killing Gundam, which aren't even really flaws. For instance, perhaps Clannad won't "smack you in the face" with a Gundam battle every episode, but it will give you a text overlay, Tomoyo combo kicking and Sunohara getting pummeled moment just as often as the next episode, along with lots of moe fetish moments. That's the nature of it's beast though, as are the skirmishs in Gundam. See a lot of the things you point to as flaws in Gundam 00 also apply to Clannad and many other shows.

You're willing to look at Gundam 00 and it's characters at face value, but somehow Clannad must be given a deeper look. And don't tell me Gundam 00 doesn't have it's beneath the surface things that are hinted at either, because it does.

At least CLANNAD has remained consistent from episode to episode, Gundam 00 seems to be losing its steam that it built up in the first couple of episodes. Clannad seems to have an air of building action, Gundam 00 seems to be stagnating.

The point is that this is a almost total throwaway episode. I can see people who really love this series buying the boxset and totally skipping this episode and/or fastwarding to watch only the bikini parts.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

At least CLANNAD has remained consistent from episode to episode, Gundam 00 seems to be losing its steam that it built up in the first couple of episodes. Clannad seems to have an air of building action, Gundam 00 seems to be stagnating.

The point is that this is a almost total throwaway episode. I can see people who really love this series buying the boxset and totally skipping this episode and/or fastwarding to watch only the bikini parts.

Some people would also argue that Clannad is losing steam with the current arc as well. And as I pointed out, Clannad has an obvious formula to follow as a visual novel adaptation, so it's going to be quite consistent in that regard if that's what you mean. I'm still not sure where you are pointing to when you keep saying Gundam 00 is inconsistent and Clannad isn't.

Though let me tell you one thing I've noticed about 50 episodes series though as compared to 24 (26?) episode ones like Clannad that tends to act as a loose template. In my experience the first quarter tends to be introduction, the second character development, the third one building to the main plotline that will shape the series and the 4th one the climax of all previous elements and arcs. In short we probably have about 3-5 episodes left of what people call the exposition arc. Also I'm 90% sure a bombshell of some sort will drop around episode 12 or 13 given that it's the end of a quarter, or cour or whatever you want to call it.