2011-12-30, 14:29 | Link #18763 | |
Shadow of Effilisi
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Military drills are commonly practiced by all military powers, including the West. I am not aware of it being "laughed at" by the western world. And finally, I am rather skeptical of your stereotyping of Middle East. For one, Iran is a Persian country. The rest of ME are mostly Arabs. Grouping them together is rather lazy and misleading. |
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2011-12-30, 14:33 | Link #18764 |
temporary safeguard
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Germany
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Marching your whole army down the main street of your capital once every year is not a military drill. That's a show.
Also, they may belong to different cultures (arabs, persians ect), but they have been neighbours for centuries, so as far as foreign politics go, they should be compatible by now. |
2011-12-30, 14:36 | Link #18765 | ||||
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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how did a weapon come to hold the same status as a Tuxedo. Quote:
you don't usually see tanks and missile carrying trucks driving down the street in london. Quote:
i doubt this is the case today, and it most definitely was NOT the case back during the times where this mindframe was created. and the Iranians own behavior (declaring new weapon development every other week, several high publicity drills per year, and threats like the latest one about the straights) simply demonstrate how much they subscribe to the mindframe i just described. Quote:
old habits are hard to shake.
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2011-12-30, 14:51 | Link #18766 |
temporary safeguard
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Germany
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Well, up until "recently" Germans at least loved military parades. So it's not exclusively middle eastern.
They got really popular with the introduction of conscription and weapon developement taking off. And you all know the pictures of spiked helmets and propaganda movies from WW2... I guess we decided that threatening our neighbours might not be such a good idea after that and stopped doing them. But there is still the tradition of marching the so called "Schützen" through towns once per year in western Germany. Those were the cities' militias during earlier ages, nowadays their only purpose is to drink a lot of beer. Before that, when they were actually a military force, it served the same purpose as those ME parades though. The thing with western military is, that we don't feel threatened by the soldiers and tanks we can see anymore. It's the hidden missiles and super weapons developed in secret, that scare us. All because of the cold war I guess. |
2011-12-30, 15:11 | Link #18767 | |||
Shadow of Effilisi
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Iran's behaviour is quite understandable when you consider the situation it is in. It has few friends internationally. Its relationship with neighbours, besides the chaotic Syria, is bad. It naturally feels cornered and desperate. Similarly North Korea likes to act tough too. So I don't attribute it to your ME stereotyping. |
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2011-12-30, 15:14 | Link #18768 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Do you throw your ultimatums matter-of-factly, or do you bluster and roar? Do you do it in private, or in public? Get it wrong, and you may make the other guy lose face to the point where it's better for him to take a swing at you and get pounded than do nothing all. Or alternately, you may make him think you made your threat pro forma, to save face yourself, but have no interest in really carrying through, when you were in fact deadly serious. |
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2011-12-30, 15:37 | Link #18769 | ||||
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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because i think its the same idea. Quote:
its a show of force meant to deter. Quote:
i'm pointing out a specific aspect of middle eastern mindframe that is prevalent throughout. Quote:
Iran's international relations regarding the west is almost entirely a result of its own policies under its current regime (Iran used to be a major western ally after all). choosing to continue this hostility makes no sense of you think about it from the point of view of a rational western individual. but it IS understandable when you know that this is literally the law of the land in this part of the world. showing weakness is inviting attack.
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2011-12-30, 16:27 | Link #18770 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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While there are difference cultures and religious sects in the Middle East, they have a shared history in how they deal with each other. International relations is a shared ideology in the region (as is how to argue with someone since that goes back to trade, which is also regional). These peoples have been trading and fighting each other for thousands of years. They have their share of things that are generic between them when it comes to things they've all done.
In a scale going back at least 5,000 years..... The Persians use to invade and threaten for centuries. The "Turks" or others that happened to be from Asia Minor, did the same before and after Rome came and went. The tribal Arabs and those that were not as nomadic also use to fight and trade for millenia. We even have histories and tales of them doing so all the way back to the likes of Sumaria, and Babylon. Egypt has been a power in the region off and on for thousands of years. About the only ones not being a big name anymore in the region is Greece....and even they have had a massive lasting effect on the region (see Alexander the Great). So while some things can be considered stereotypes, other things are shared history.
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2011-12-30, 17:21 | Link #18771 | |
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2011-12-30, 17:50 | Link #18772 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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If we want to talk about people in the middle east having a shared foreign policy history, well, they also have a shared heritage of foreign policy with Europe too. Don't forget that one of the European "Great Powers" was the very middle eastern Ottoman Empire.
Furthermore, the use of detterence is definitely not unique to the middle east, nor is it particularly more pronounced there then elsewhere (especially historically speaking). Don't forget that Europe holds 3 of the world's nuclear powers, and were it not for it's history, Germany would probably be a 4th. How does that sound for detterence? Furthermore, if you look at the 19th and early 20th centuries, Europe was filled with countries flexing their military muscles, and racing to have bigger and better ships then everyone else, for detterence, and for prestige. Essentially, middle eastern countries behave the same way. They just have an antiquated mindset, and it's no wonder considering they're all monarchies and dictatorships. Want to know what Europe was filled with in the 19th century? Monarchies and Dictatorships. Autocrats are all about flexing their military muscles, they always seem to have a bizarre love affair with high powered weaponry and vast arrays of troops. And if we want to restrict things to just detterence, well, I think Realpolitik works pretty much the same wherever you are. All countries essentially have the foreign policy of petulant 2 year olds. |
2011-12-30, 21:18 | Link #18773 |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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Man infected with HIV sleeps with thousands in "a mission to infect as many people as possible".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...6pLid%3D124026 What a scumbag.
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2011-12-31, 00:18 | Link #18774 | |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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2011-12-31, 02:15 | Link #18776 | ||
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2011-12-31, 04:52 | Link #18777 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
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This is kind of over kill. One has to remember the high rate of growth mainly happens at the coast provinces and if you go inland, there are vast regions that are still quit poor. With limited resources one has to put the living first before the dead. If there is a choice between building a school or road or spend it on a collapsing temple, I say build the school or road. They are not doing a good job in protecting these ruins. Sure. The government denies it all? What age are you living in? 1970s during the culture revolution?
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2011-12-31, 06:07 | Link #18778 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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Boeing wins $3.48 billion U.S. missile contract
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BT19T20111231 U.S. Saudi fighter jet sale to help offset Iran http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BS0LJ20111229
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2011-12-31, 07:28 | Link #18779 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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