Attack on Titan - Episode 6 Discussion / Poll

[Haak]

Originally Posted by askara

why does everyone Eren is crazy? thought his action was pretty justified. first it is not modern world, i mean i doubt viking, roman or spartan kid will cry like a little girl even if it happen to them because they have exposed directly or indirectly to cruelty since a kind. so i think its OK to assume Eren to be more cold hearted and mature than us.
secondly Eren was kinda crazy from shock when he saw the dead body and think the same thing will happen to Mikasa if he doesn't quickly help.
third he is not acting scared little kid, he is probably very scared but he know what happen if he fail and he know he cant take them face on and he need plan. also he is full of adrenalines and half mad when he keep on stabbing the guy, i will be more worry if he take him out in one clean stab and act normal.

Isn't that exactly what he did with the first guy though? And he seemed eerily normal after the second kill too.

[yogotah]

Just my two cents, but hey they're living in medieval like world...if you can remember from our history, we use to burn woman we thought were witches, chop people's head off, and of course the kings would invite friends and watch their prisoners either get eaten by animals or being tortured by guards.

Trust me, compare to reality this is nothing, I'm not surprised that Eren was ready to kill...ready for action, you had to in that time..kids his age would already marry in medival times for comparsion

[Enjou]

Eren certainly was not a normal little boy in this episode, but he's not crazy. He's not a sociopath by any noticeable measure, given that he does care about other people quite deeply. For people who are generally jerks but are not bad at their cores, Eren will dislike them and fight them if needed, but he's never killed anyone like that as far as we know. Regarding the two guys he killed, he dehumanized them in his mind - they were beasts, not people - which is why he could be calm about it afterwards. Dehumanizing the "other" is what you need to do in order to get someone who is emotionally rather normal to do bad things to another person, be it killing, persecution, etc, so dehumanizing them was rather normal behavior on Eren's part considering that he saw the remains of their victims and probably heard their plans to sell Mikasa. I suspect that Eren needed to cope with the shock of seeing a murder scene at such a young age, and given that he's got an impetus to action his best available coping mechanism was to rescue Mikasa and bring justice to the bad guys so that in his mind the world would be 'righted'.

[hyper_oats]

Calling him genocidal is probably going too far, hell, even calling him a murderer makes it seem like he killed without a good reason. The way i see it, his character views the world in very uncompromising terms; and he doesn't hesitate to act out on them, regardless of the impact on his social or physical well being.

For example, he frequently got into fights and arguments with other kids for his unpopular views on the world (humans shouldn't be happy living like trapped cattle, humans should retake the world outside). And it's also the reason he had very little to no friends back then. Simply put, he doesn't placate and he doesn't back down.

I think this gives some people the impression that he is just some hot headed kid that is angry all the time for no reason. But like i said before, it stems from his inability to see eye to eye with a large part of the rest of humanity, who he probably considers too complacent. If anything, Eren reminds me somewhat of a less extreme version of Rorschach from Watchmen. He follows through with his beliefs and isn't reluctant to get his hands dirty.

As far as realism issues go, it isn't too hard to imagine that he could have killed at such a young age when you keep his personality in mind. And as other people have mentioned, Eren lived in a completely different culture and time period. Regardless of how he developed his attitude, that's just the way he is, his abnormality i suppose.

[orion]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

I don't agree about there being nothing wrong with Eren. His behaviour in that scene goes far beyond normal recklessness or even heroic recklessness. He was a little kid tracking down and killing two guys, and, while he was being choked, giving another kid an "If you win, you live, if you lose you die" the law of the jungle style pep talk to get her to kill the remaining one.

I mean, he was screaming a rage-filled "It's only natural! This is what you deserve!" while enthusiastically stabbing a guy multiple times to death, with blood splashing up everywhere. That's not something that can be described just with recklessness. Eren's got other problems than that. He said later that he was "just trying to save her" but although saving her was his goal, it's clear from his own words and actions earlier that that was definitely not his only motivation. It's actually also creepy that later on he really seemed to believe what he was saying to his dad.

It's not normal. Usually a person with no experience in fighting and causing harm would show some hesitation at injuring, let along killing, another human being, or at least less hate-filled fury, and you would generally expect them to be shaken by the experience rather than talking about how they just disposed of some beasts who weren't even human beings. Mikasa's initial reaction was a lot more normal, although she did break and change due to her experience. By contrast, Eren's initial and continuing reaction was one of a highly disturbed child.

Eren doesn't look as if he lived a hard life as a kid before witnessing what happened to Mikasa's family. Really, it seems as if he'd had an easy life. He probably hadn't seen that sort of violence before, and he probably hadn't committed any such acts himself before either. There's nothing that would really explain why he went in for such unusual behaviour.

He was obviously taught how to fight or he wouldn't have known how to take down Slaver #1 at the door or set up Slaver #2. Slaver #3 prob survived because Eren thought that there were only 2 of them and went to free Mikasa first instead of securing the place first and then free Mikasa.

He did "save" Mikasa. While it is quite normal to be helpless in our society, obviously not being able to protect yourself is going to lead to you being killed, raped, etc in their society. So Mikasa had to step up to the plate and kill Slaver #3 if she wanted to live without being raped and sold into slavery.

And...those slavers "deserved" what happened to them imo. *Pats Eren on the back for a job well done.*

[LeoXiao]

I said "genocidal" because given a slightly different ideology, I can see him slaughtering people left and right without blinking an eye. It's good that his enemies are limited to just the Titans and other "beasts".

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by hyper_oats

Calling him genocidal is probably going too far, hell, even calling him a murderer makes it seem like he killed without a good reason. The way i see it, his character views the world in very uncompromising terms; and he doesn't hesitate to act out on them, regardless of the impact on his social or physical well being.

For example, he frequently got into fights and arguments with other kids for his unpopular views on the world (humans shouldn't be happy living like trapped cattle, humans should retake the world outside). And it's also the reason he had very little to no friends back then. Simply put, he doesn't placate and he doesn't back down.

I think this gives some people the impression that he is just some hot headed kid that is angry all the time for no reason. But like i said before, it stems from his inability to see eye to eye with a large part of the rest of humanity, who he probably considers too complacent. If anything, Eren reminds me somewhat of a less extreme version of Rorschach from Watchmen. He follows through with his beliefs and isn't reluctant to get his hands dirty.

As far as realism issues go, it isn't too hard to imagine that he could have killed at such a young age when you keep his personality in mind. And as other people have mentioned, Eren lived in a completely different culture and time period. Regardless of how he developed his attitude, that's just the way he is, his abnormality i suppose.

That's the best evidence-based analysis of Eren's personality I've read thus far. Thanks. The analogy to Rorschach is particularly spot on. It's more plausible to regard Eren as someone who refused to compromise from a young age than as someone implausibly psychopathic. You also made an astute point about how that explains his lack of friends.

I'd hesitate to say, however, that he had a strong sense of "justice", as some claim. What happened in that cabin wasn't justice in the true sense of the word. It was just ugly, old-fashioned revenge.

[Xero8420]

Killing a Titan is a lot different than killing those scumbags.

Aside from being reckless and "stupid/retarded", you should have known that he has a habit of taking a matter to an extreme ways.

Hmm... I wonder if people these days are really spoilt by SAO way too much when it comes to a perception on a protagonist?

[dark998]

Even the goddamn flashbacks are intense in this series. Now the bond between Eren and Mikasa makes a ton of sense, as well as the imagery in the ED video. Also really liked the scene where her "survival instinct" awakens.

And back to the current timeline, another scene I found nice is when, for the first time in 6 episodes, a titan actually gets destroyed for good. And by the hands of no other than Mikasa.

Still hoping for Eren's return. Mikasa is nice but she is no replacement for THE MC. I need both of them kicking ass together.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by Xero8420

Killing a Titan is a lot different than killing those scumbags.

Aside from being reckless and "stupid/retarded", you should have known that he has a habit of taking a matter to an extreme ways.

Hmm... I wonder if people these days are really spoilt by SAO way too much when it comes to a perception on a protagonist?

Why bring SAO into the picture?

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[GoldenLand]

Eren didn't seem like a psychopath, but he did have problems. Enjou's got a good point about his frame of mind, as does TinyRedLeaf about the need to qualify that Eren was really not acting as a pure-hearted agent of justice there by any means.

Originally Posted by orion

He was obviously taught how to fight or he wouldn't have known how to take down Slaver #1 at the door or set up Slaver #2.

Who by? I seriously doubt that either of his parents taught him to fight, let alone track down murderers, pretend to be a helpless kid to throw them off guard, then use that to stab one to death in one blow and ambush the other one for further stabbing. Hannes and the wall guards don't look as if they'd teach him that either. He probably learned to fight a bit from scraps with other kids at least, but I doubt there had ever been anything anywhere near the kind of situation he was in in that flashback before. Maybe some of his scrapping turned out useful for him, maybe not.

If looking just at Mikasa's attack there, it would be easy to assume that she'd been raised from the cradle as a lean mean fighting machine. Mikasa managed to stab the third one to death with a single strike through the back, straight through the heart, breaking floorboards and her knife handle along the way. Despite all that, in her case I don't think it's even possible to make a serious argument that she was already a trained killer a-ready for action. (Though really, Eren being a trained killer at that age is also pretty silly as an idea, and there's no evidence that he'd been deliberately trained as a fighter either.) With her, it's unnatural talent all the way.

In episode 1, the bullies were perfectly prepared to beat up Eren, confident that they would succeed, but they ran the hell away from Mikasa on sight. They probably wouldn't have believed it if they were told that Eren had killed two fully grown adult men when he was younger. In episode 4, we were shown that Eren "lacks any outstanding talents" but has "outstanding diligence" and "an exceptional sense of purpose". And that is in line with his out of the blue killing skills at the time when he saved Mikasa from the slavers, where I bet those characteristics were what enabled him to pull off what he did.

Originally Posted by yogotah

Trust me, compare to reality this is nothing, I'm not surprised that Eren was ready to kill...ready for action, you had to in that time..

The police were really surprised that two kids killed a bunch of people like that. It was definitely not normal, and Eren's dad was not at all happy about the situation either.

There doesn't seem to be any actual evidence that Eren as a child was living in a society where people had to be ready to kill at the drop of a hat, people were being burned as witches, and rich people were sending off poor people to be eaten by animals for their amusement, etcetera. So I think that assumptions that the kids' childhoods pre-wall-breakage were spent in hellish conditions where they had to be ready to fight for survival at all times are really jumping the gun. The scenes shown in ep 1 pre-Titans looked rather nice, with the exception of the patrol's return. They were even in a situation where Armin was able to say "It's been peaceful living inside these walls for the past 100 years". Obviously he means the Titans in that sentence, but even so, would he really have said things were peaceful if they were living in a stressful, violent place where people constantly feared for their lives and were always ready to fight for survival?

[saravis]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I'd hesitate to say, however, that he had a strong sense of "justice", as some claim. What happened in that cabin wasn't justice in the true sense of the word. It was just ugly, old-fashioned revenge.

To some, they are one in the same; "Angel of Vengeance" or some other similar title.
Eren, from what little I've seen of him, seems to be one of those types, driven to serve justice by the motivation of personal vengeance.

On the topic of the creepiness of a nine year old boy methodically killing, I'm not sure if I misread that scene, but it seemed as if his father wasn't at all shocked by that fact, simply concerned that Eren had risked his life to do so. If that's the case, either that speaks for Eren's character personally, that this isn't anything unusual for him or it speaks for the world that this isn't an unusual event.

[Mad Pierrot]

My reaction to the episode was a bit like:
"Oh my god! Why so violent? Oh my god no! Somebody stop that! Oh god no! Wait...



Aaaaahh.. That's adorable. No lets go back to the tragic deaths."

[Xero8420]

Originally Posted by larethian

Why bring SAO into the picture?

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Spoiler for SAO

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Sorry, man. I was just being somewhat sarcastic of how some people view a character.

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[HandofFate]

Episode 6 just cements the fact that Eren is an unstable psycho, even before the whole titans thing with his mom.

[richardtengcy]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Episode 6 just cements the fact that Eren is an unstable psycho, even before the whole titans thing with his mom.

He is not unstable psycho, just hot-headed....he is the sort of people who would go to the extreme to get Justice done without thinking of the consequences.

Example 1: Eren would rush to fight 3 bully to save Armin although he got himself hurts until Mikasa came to the rescue.

Example 2: After the Titan kill his mom, he swore revenge and act immaturely and Mikasa has to punch him at his face to set him back to reality

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Still, it is a pretty unusual thing for a kid to be able to give that sort of speech while being choked. Looks like a topic he's really thought about. I wonder if he was already set on killing Titans at that age.

The one most constant elements of the show in regards to Eren's character was how different he is compared to most people in the Walled City. He thought deeply about things they normally wouldn't (like the world outside), had goals they thought were crazy (such as joining the Recon Corps), pious in ways other weren't (see his conversation with Hannes and Garrison Corps in ep1) and respected people who fought for humanity sake opposed to the general populace who saw them as burdens. He was always more ready to face the reality of the world and the Walled City when others turned away. Eren's never been your average in kid that society and he has always had the willingness to do what's right to his own moral code rather than lie to himself. This episode was just extension of that mind set. He has bit more maturity than one could glance at first.

The key thing, though, is that it's likely not anywhere near the type of fighting experience that someone would need to be prepared to kill someone or even maim them. Unless he and the other kids were out stabbing each other with knives and trying to cause permanent damage...he wasn't in a life or death situation where he had to do that before, as far as we know. There's a difference between someone entering a fight where they could die or kill someone and a fight which they could expect to end non-lethally and without permanent damage. Someone could be well trained at fighting or using a weapon, but that doesn't mean they're going to have no hesitation when the situation is life or death and they have to really hurt another person.

I've said as much, but my point is that he already has the base for getting dirty rough and violent, whether he can actually kill anyone one from there on depends context and situation at the time.

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Who by? I seriously doubt that either of his parents taught him to fight, let alone track down murderers, pretend to be a helpless kid to throw them off guard, then use that to stab one to death in one blow and ambush the other one for further stabbing. Hannes and the wall guards don't look as if they'd teach him that either. He probably learned to fight a bit from scraps with other kids at least, but I doubt there had ever been anything anywhere near the kind of situation he was in in that flashback before. Maybe some of his scrapping turned out useful for him, maybe not.

You don't need any training to do what Eren did, just the willpower necessary. His plan was calculated, but very simple and relied on deception and cognitive norms that is commonly associated with children (that they're scared, weak and helpless). There is no way he has strength to fight a full grown adult directly (as shown with the 3rd man) so he used cunning tactics instead. It's still very impressive for someone his age and so he does have a head for tactics when he uses it.

Originally Posted by larethian

Why bring SAO into the picture?

Spoilers

Spoiler for SAO

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Oh, I'm sure he has plenty of that, it's just reserved for people who deserve it.

[Claym0re]

Well I am pretty sure that the scene's original intention was to clarify the nature of Eren-Mikasa relationship and why Eren is so "hot-headed".

Based on the arguments it sorta backfired. It would have been better if both of them were captured and forced to kill the bandits in order to survive.

Instead of answering our questions it raised more - why does a nine year old child act like that. No wonder Mikasa's reaction felt more natural compared to his.

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

There doesn't seem to be any actual evidence that Eren as a child was living in a society where people had to be ready to kill at the drop of a hat, people were being burned as witches, and rich people were sending off poor people to be eaten by animals for their amusement, etcetera. So I think that assumptions that the kids' childhoods pre-wall-breakage were spent in hellish conditions where they had to be ready to fight for survival at all times are really jumping the gun. The scenes shown in ep 1 pre-Titans looked rather nice, with the exception of the patrol's return. They were even in a situation where Armin was able to say "It's been peaceful living inside these walls for the past 100 years". Obviously he means the Titans in that sentence, but even so, would he really have said things were peaceful if they were living in a stressful, violent place where people constantly feared for their lives and were always ready to fight for survival?

It's definitely not a utopian paradise either. Considering that Mikasa's parents were murdered and there was an actual sex-slave smuggling ring going on.

[justinstrife]

I had no problems with eren's actions as long as he didn't lose sight of saving people who needed saving. Those men got what they deserved and I feel no sympathy for such character types.

It's obvious that Eren and Mikasa are not normal. But then again, what is really normal?