Code Geass R2 - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Proto]

After all, Charles said that Suzaku was the only one to know of Geass.

Yeah, and the Emperor has been a public supporter of the classic moral system throughout the series, exposing the value of honesty, frankness and not lying even to your allies.
[/snarky]


Though I'd accept that lying even to the audience would be quite the underhanded trick from the writers

[New/Old]

Originally Posted by Proto

Trivia of the week: Is needle and stitch Bismarck's version of a Geass seal? It would have been easier to ask C.C. for her trademarked contacts

It's the Xiahou Dun effect. Losing an eyeball not only makes one (how does one put it) badass, but it's the mark of a hardened warrior. Yes, I know it was intended for a joke, but still...

The lurker goes to lurking once more...

[Slayerx]

Ah Shirlly... it really must suck to be her... she gets mindf*cked in every which way; first by the turth that the man she loves is responsible for her father's death; then having he mind erased for her own girl only to find a note that told her the truth again; then having her mind rewritten to cancel THAT out aswell; and now having the geass on her cancelled putting her back to the way she was when this all began but know with the knoweldge that her mind has been messed up with... the girl really can't catch a break can she...

Grant it, part of me is kind of glad with that turn of events... as one of the things that really annoyed me was, at the begining of season 2 when we found out that everyone in the acedemy had their memories altered, i couldn't help but ask; "what the hell was the point of the girl finding that note and regaining the knowledge she lost"... And now we know it was to add to how messed up she would be after having her geass cancelled...

Though one thing i do kinda wonder... now that the geass has been cancelled, does that mean lelouche can geass her again? i'm quick to assume, yes he could... though he'd have to realize that first. (i'm praying we don't get a repeat of what happened with Euphemia... as in he talks to her without his contact lens unknowingly geassing her into a killer)

As for Cornelia, she WILL need to confront her father eventually... her goal is to clear Euphemia's name by exposing the geass, and that will mean confronting her father since he's the man behind the Geass. not to mention she will be pretty pissed knowing that her father could have cleared Euphemia's name at any time... i doubt cooperation between her and Lelouche though... She's got too much contempt for him to work with him... However, they probably will end up moving against their father at about the same time out of sheer chance(plot).

Though i do question what Lelouche would do if he were to find out she plans to clear Euphemia's good name... the quick answer is to kill her as clearing Euphemia would mean exposing what he did; She would either destroy his name, or destroy Zero's name... If this happens before he destroys britiania, then this will horribly ruin his plans... if it happens after, it ruins his hopes of returning to normal life after all of this is over (depending on if she exposing that Lelouche is Zero; or if the world finds out on it's own that Lelouche is Zero)... but i think it may be quick to say he would kill her... after all, he has been changing for the better and he does severely regret what he did to Euphemia; he may actually sympathize with Cornelia's goal

This kinda makes me wonder why Suzaku doesn't share the same ideal as clearing Euphemia's name... he cares about making Zero face justice, but i don't think he has shown much for clearing the girl's name like Cornelia does. Ofcourse, the only way to do that would be for him to go against Britiania's emperor as he would need to expose the geass, and that might complicate his plans of changing Britiania for the better form within... just a little
conflicting priorities...

Originally Posted by Dyllani

As for Cornelia, she will kill Lelouch. Lelouch's explanation of the events won't exactly win over his big sister. Even if she buys that he accidently turned Euphemia into a Japanese killing machine, I still believe she'll want to know why he killed her. I mean, Lelouch didn't actually have to kill Euphy. He chose to. Not to mention, he also killed Clovis. They may deal with Daddy together, but she'll slit his throat the second that's over...

Actually, explaining why he killed Euphemia would be easier than explaining how he accidently turned her into a mass murderer... Mercy kill

Considering Euphemia's purity and personality, the knowledge that she killed hundreds of innocent japanese with her own hands is a fate worse than death. Even if she knew she was not in control, was not responsible, it was all the geass's fault, AND the world knew it wasn't her fault, it would have done NOTHING to ease her soul. Something like that could have driven her into depression and madness... Cornelia knows Euphemia and would have quite a bit of trouble arguing against the action when question "what would she have done"... she'd probably be rendered speechless since she understands what Euphemia would have gone through and would have no real answer of her own, but at the same time could never agree with killing her.

Lelouche didn't have to kill her, but there was really no way to save her from knowing what she did... the only thing i can think of is basically forcing her into a bubble life; secluded from the rest of the world where she could NEVER hear news from the outside and thus never be told of what she did in japan... Basically an imprisoned life... better than death, but not by much depending on who you ask.

The harder part is convincing how he accidently turned Euphemia into a killing machine... best way would be trying to to tell her how he loss control of the geass and drove her insane... it would be a hard story to swallow... one supporting factor would be if Cornelia's research into the geass included finding out that the geass users do indeed loose control of their geass over time; that would help lend support to Lerouche's story

Ain't perfect, and may not work, but it's the best chance Lelouche got

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Proto

Yeah, and the Emperor has been a public supporter of the classic moral system throughout the series, exposing the value of honesty, frankness and not lying even to your allies.
[/snarky]


Though I'd accept that lying even to the audience would be quite the underhanded trick from the writers

I don't see why the Emperor would lie about that.

The emperor simply told Suzaku that he's the only Rounds member that is aware of geass and so far that seems to be the case with the exception of Knight of One.

As for Cornelia, she WILL need to confront her father eventually... her goal is to clear Euphemia's name by exposing the geass, and that will mean confronting her father since he's the man behind the Geass. not to mention she will be pretty pissed knowing that her father could have cleared Euphemia's name at any time... i doubt cooperation between her and Lelouche though... She's got too much contempt for him to work with him... However, they probably will end up moving against their father at about the same time out of sheer chance(plot).

Since when was Charles the guy behind Geass? He's just a user whose contracted with VV.

This kinda makes me wonder why Suzaku doesn't share the same ideal as clearing Euphemia's name... he cares about making Zero face justice, but i don't think he has shown much for clearing the girl's name like Cornelia does. Ofcourse, the only way to do that would be for him to go against Britiania's emperor as he would need to expose the geass, and that might complicate his plans of changing Britiania for the better form within... just a little
conflicting priorities...

And exactly how would Suzaku do that in the first place? He can't reveal any information about Geass and no one would believe it either and for what purpose?

At this point Suzaku continues to strive for Euphie's dream.

[Arnaiyus]

This may be a little bit out of topic, but it struck me as soon as I saw the scene and I wonder if anyone else made the same link that I did.


Direct Link.
They look reaaally similar there, just thought I had to show the comparison because I think there are people who speculate about them being allies in the future (I think it may be true)

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Arnaiyus

This may be a little bit out of topic, but it struck me as soon as I saw the scene and I wonder if anyone else made the same link that I did.


Direct Link.
They look reaaally similar there, just thought I had to show the comparison because I think there are people who speculate about them being allies in the future (I think it may be true)

Do I see two psychos in the pic? I think I do...

[Ronin Aquila]

That's it, Orange-Kun!! Cancel Suzy-Boy's Geass, and then come next battle....

.... YAY HE'S DEAD!!

[Freya]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Do I see two psychos in the pic? I think I did...

ROFLMAO!!!

[m1thril]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Actually, explaining why he killed Euphemia would be easier than explaining how he accidently turned her into a mass murderer... Mercy kill

Considering Euphemia's purity and personality, the knowledge that she killed hundreds of innocent japanese with her own hands is a fate worse than death. Even if she knew she was not in control, was not responsible, it was all the geass's fault, AND the world knew it wasn't her fault, it would have done NOTHING to ease her soul. Something like that could have driven her into depression and madness... Cornelia knows Euphemia and would have quite a bit of trouble arguing against the action when question "what would she have done"... she'd probably be rendered speechless since she understands what Euphemia would have gone through and would have no real answer of her own, but at the same time could never agree with killing her.

Lelouche didn't have to kill her, but there was really no way to save her from knowing what she did... the only thing i can think of is basically forcing her into a bubble life; secluded from the rest of the world where she could NEVER hear news from the outside and thus never be told of what she did in japan... Basically an imprisoned life... better than death, but not by much depending on who you ask.

The harder part is convincing how he accidently turned Euphemia into a killing machine... best way would be trying to to tell her how he loss control of the geass and drove her insane... it would be a hard story to swallow... one supporting factor would be if Cornelia's research into the geass included finding out that the geass users do indeed loose control of their geass over time; that would help lend support to Lerouche's story

Ain't perfect, and may not work, but it's the best chance Lelouche got

The only problem i have with LL's mercy kill is that it is not his decision, rather it is euphie's and don't give me bs about LL knowing what euphie would have wanted as we have seen that LL epically fails at understanding people close to him.

[Torri_fay_torren@hot]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Since when was Charles the guy behind Geass? He's just a user whose contracted with VV.

.

As far as we know he was the first or at least one of the first to have a geass in this era. He also had them conducting expiraments about C.C. Don't forget the big glowing room that has something to do with V.V. and C.C. and the geass. Also, I think it was mentioned in the first scene that Britaninia had been searching for all of the ruins which has something to do with Geass. Lelouch, is just getting into the Geass business. ALl of the answers lie with V.V. and the Charles

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Torri_fay_torren@hot

As far as we know he was the first or at least one of the first to have a geass in this era. He also had them conducting expiraments about C.C. Don't forget the big glowing room that has something to do with V.V. and C.C. and the geass. Also, I think it was mentioned in the first scene that Britaninia had been searching for all of the ruins which has something to do with Geass. Lelouch, is just getting into the Geass business. ALl of the answers lie with V.V. and the Charles

My point being was that in comparison VV is the top dog.

This is in regards to the contract that Charles made with VV just like it is with Lelouch and CC. CC will help Lelouch but in the end he'll have to fulfill his part of the deal just as Charles is doing now.

VV is the leader of the cult who runs all the geass stuff, he's the man behind all of this.

[yezhanquan]

I think that C.C. and V.V. are their own sides. But, there may be a higher power above them, who created them, and expected them to be under control (which wasn't the case obviously).

[Double_Edge]

Did anyone else notice that Cornellia has a gunblade?!
You can see the trigger when she jumps down the shaft and the end when she points it at the moustache man. That's WET!!

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

Did anyone else notice that Cornellia has a gunblade?!
You can see the trigger when she jumps down the shaft and the end when she points it at the moustache man. That's WET!!

That's nothing. If she replaces her crippled arm with cybernetics, THEN we're talking.

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

Did anyone else notice that Cornellia has a gunblade?!
You can see the trigger when she jumps down the shaft and the end when she points it at the moustache man. That's WET!!

Yeah, we talked about this last week when Cornelia appeared in the preview. Apparently, it's the same gun/sword that she pointed at Zero back in episode 8 of season 1.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

And exactly how would Suzaku do that in the first place? He can't reveal any information about Geass and no one would believe it either and for what purpose?

At this point Suzaku continues to strive for Euphie's dream.

How? same way Cornelia is trying to do it... dig up evidence of the existence of the geass and expose it to the public as the explanation that Eupehmia was under a form of mind control and was not responsible for the horrors that happened that day; it was Zero's fault... and the concept that he "can't" reveal any information was another part of my post, that it would mess with his plans within the empire... he CAN do it, but he won't

for what purpose? to clear Euphemia's good name. As it stands history will go on record that Euphemia used a false hopes and promises in order to trap the japanese and then commit genocide against them, even going so far as to killing them with her own hands. Her name will be cursed around the world for centuries... this is why cornelia's main goal has been to correct history and reveal the truth

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

My point being was that in comparison VV is the top dog.

This is in regards to the contract that Charles made with VV just like it is with Lelouch and CC. CC will help Lelouch but in the end he'll have to fulfill his part of the deal just as Charles is doing now.

VV is the leader of the cult who runs all the geass stuff, he's the man behind all of this.

And the main point is that Cornelia will still have to go against her father if she wishes to restore Euphemia's good name (unless her father suddenly feels like releasing the information himself)

Originally Posted by m1thril

The only problem i have with LL's mercy kill is that it is not his decision, rather it is euphie's and don't give me bs about LL knowing what euphie would have wanted as we have seen that LL epically fails at understanding people close to him.

For Euphemia to make such a decision would require her to know what happened, which is the exact torture that Lelouche was trying to prevent... and he does know it would have tortured her... she did what no other person has done, she was so pure and so far against the idea of killing that she was able to offer up resistance(though failed) to the Lelouche's geass which was thought to have been absolute in it's power... hell i think we know euphemia well enough to that Lelouche was right to think that she would be tortured by such knowledge (we know that she was able to fully resist the geass when it came to killing suzaku; that's how strong she was against doing such a thing)... it's kinda of funny that Lelouche and Suzaku actually thought on similiar wavelengths; Lelouche killed Euphemia for the exact same reason Suzaku lied to her about what happened to the japanese... Peace over suffering

There were several possible outcomes... Peace in ignorance, knowledge of what she did followed by suffering and death, or knowledge of what she did a long life of internal suffering... for Euphemia to choose for her self would require her to have knowledge of what she did which was certain to result in her suffering greatly; the only question is whether she kills herself out of grief, or keeps living WHILE suffering (falling into madness is very possible)... making certain she NEVER found out what she did (which renders her unable to determine what her own fate) truly was the ONLY way to make sure she did not have to suffer what to her, would have been a fate worse than death...

When it comes down to it, Lelouche didn't kill Euphemia when he shot her, he killed her the moment she shot that first japanese under the influence of the geass... her life was completely over after that moment... keeping her ignorant of what she did, and ending her life was probably the one of the most merciful things to do... the other being keeping her alive and ignorant in a bubble where she could never hear news of the world (depending on how much freedom you could give her and depending on who you ask)... and again, there's no way to keep her ignorant AND give her these kind of choices

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

How? same way Cornelia is trying to do it... dig up evidence of the existence of the geass and expose it to the public as the explanation that Eupehmia was under a form of mind control and was not responsible for the horrors that happened that day; it was Zero's fault... and the concept that he "can't" reveal any information was another part of my post, that it would mess with his plans within the empire... he CAN do it, but he won't

for what purpose? to clear Euphemia's good name. As it stands history will go on record that Euphemia used a false hopes and promises in order to trap the japanese and then commit genocide against them, even going so far as to killing them with her own hands. Her name will be cursed around the world for centuries... this is why cornelia's main goal has been to correct history and reveal the truth


And the main point is that Cornelia will still have to go against her father if she wishes to restore Euphemia's good name (unless her father suddenly feels like releasing the information himself)


For Euphemia to make such a decision would require her to know what happened, which is the exact torture that Lelouche was trying to prevent... and he does know it would have tortured her... she did what no other person has done, she was so pure and so far against the idea of killing that she was able to offer up resistance(though failed) to the Lelouche's geass which was thought to have been absolute in it's power... hell i think we know euphemia well enough to that Lelouche was right to think that she would be tortured by such knowledge (we know that she was able to fully resist the geass when it came to killing suzaku; that's how strong she was against doing such a thing)... it's kinda of funny that Lelouche and Suzaku actually thought on similiar wavelengths; Lelouche killed Euphemia for the exact same reason Suzaku lied to her about what happened to the japanese... Peace over suffering

There were several possible outcomes... Peace in ignorance, knowledge of what she did followed by suffering and death, or knowledge of what she did a long life of internal suffering... for Euphemia to choose for her self would require her to have knowledge of what she did which was certain to result in her suffering greatly; the only question is whether she kills herself out of grief, or keeps living WHILE suffering (falling into madness is very possible)... making certain she NEVER found out what she did (which renders her unable to determine what her own fate) truly was the ONLY way to make sure she did not have to suffer what to her, would have been a fate worse than death...

When it comes down to it, Lelouche didn't kill Euphemia when he shot her, he killed her the moment she shot that first japanese under the influence of the geass... her life was completely over after that moment... keeping her ignorant of what she did, and ending her life was probably the one of the most merciful things to do... the other being keeping her alive and ignorant in a bubble where she could never hear news of the world (depending on how much freedom you could give her and depending on who you ask)... and again, there's no way to keep her ignorant AND give her these kind of choices

Be it Cornelia or Suzaku, the story of the Geass is a truth that will hardly be believed. Yes, both wanted nothing more than to clear Euphie's name, but to do so, they have to unmask everything, from Lulu, the ruins and Orenji-jiji.

To keep Euphie alive after the incident, I believe you'll have to paralyse her and lock her in a cell. Otherwise, she'll find the first opportunity to kill herself.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Be it Cornelia or Suzaku, the story of the Geass is a truth that will hardly be believed. Yes, both wanted nothing more than to clear Euphie's name, but to do so, they have to unmask everything, from Lulu, the ruins and Orenji-jiji.

To keep Euphie alive after the incident, I believe you'll have to paralyse her and lock her in a cell. Otherwise, she'll find the first opportunity to kill herself.

Besides, were her Geass effect was cancelled at any point during that massacre, does really think that'd be good for her? She'd have to live with that memory forever. Forever. Trust me, after something like that happening to such a sweet young woman, death would be preferable. If you think about the consequences, Euphy got off rather easy. Sounds horrible, I know, but death is better than some fates.

And its certainly better than being paralyzed in a cell.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Besides, were her Geass effect was cancelled at any point during that massacre, does really think that'd be good for her? She'd have to live with that memory forever. Forever. Trust me, after something like that happening to such a sweet young woman, death would be preferable. If you think about the consequences, Euphy got off rather easy. Sounds horrible, I know, but death is better than some fates.

And its certainly better than being paralyzed in a cell.

Actually, if Lelouch was really, REALLY a bastard, he could do just that (the paralysis+cell part), get Diethard Reid to put a webcam in the cell, and force Euphie to watch footage of the incident as the webcam captures her emotions. Then, he can score points with the online extremists, that the Massacre Princess is being tortured.

Man, that is such a Rape the Dog scenario, it's really disgusting.

[m1thril]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Be it Cornelia or Suzaku, the story of the Geass is a truth that will hardly be believed. Yes, both wanted nothing more than to clear Euphie's name, but to do so, they have to unmask everything, from Lulu, the ruins and Orenji-jiji.

To keep Euphie alive after the incident, I believe you'll have to paralyse her and lock her in a cell. Otherwise, she'll find the first opportunity to kill herself.

LL could have still tried...if she kills herself...so be it.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Besides, were her Geass effect was cancelled at any point during that massacre, does really think that'd be good for her? She'd have to live with that memory forever. Forever. Trust me, after something like that happening to such a sweet young woman, death would be preferable. If you think about the consequences, Euphy got off rather easy. Sounds horrible, I know, but death is better than some fates.

And its certainly better than being paralyzed in a cell.

agreed that death is the easy way out...but i think it's living with it that makes a character strong like LL and suzaku though the latter wavers a bit