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Old 2018-05-21, 10:44   Link #1701
Key Board
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Rye View Post
Read an interesting article that compares Trump's policies with what the so-called Clarmonsters (they call themselves like that) from Claremont who follow the thinking of the german Philosopher Leo Strauss who says that every nation should be for itself and fight with others for its survival - basically radical isolationism. It would explain why Trump is working so hard against the FBI, not only because they are hurting his reputation, but because he believes them to be part of some "deep government" which truly controls America and the world itself through globalism. Wouldn't wonder if he even goes so far to dissolve the FBI to get rid of that problem. xD
It would also fit with what he said about Nafta and Nato, that working together makes America weaker and the others stronger so he has to break those bonds to weaken the others and make America "great again" to force the others to do as America says because everyone would fear its might. I worry that this kinda thinking is a bit too simple in our complicated times of today, plus trying to pull a fight with everyone, even trading wars with Europe and Canada&Mexico, just screams trouble.
It's not just that.

From the Christian side there's also fear of the "One World Government" or "New World Order"
and this is not a niche thing. End time prophecies are a core belief among many Evangelicals.

Yes, Trump isn't religious, but his Evangelical base are.
Israel also knows about this, and is taking advantage of Evangelist lobbying.
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Old 2018-05-21, 14:42   Link #1702
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
Israel also knows about this, and is taking advantage of Evangelist lobbying.
Maybe in the short run. In the long run expect the Trump administration to give funding for the construction of the third temple. Then you can bet it will be destroyed so not even a wall remains. Even if not evangelicals think this is a signal of the end of times and they expect that "Jews will accept Jesus as the Messiah and most Jews will then embrace the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ". Hint: they expect jews to became evangelicals.
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Old 2018-05-23, 04:16   Link #1703
MrTerrorist
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Trump can't seem to make up his mind. First he says he's going to meet Kim, now he doesn't.
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Old 2018-05-23, 05:52   Link #1704
James Rye
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Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
That position (for lack of better word) was already unsound in the ''50'', now in a neo-liberal economy it's simply a joke. Even if he did belive in such stuff, he would exclude himself from it as he and his family rely so much on the rest of the world, for markets for overprized product, cheep labors ad a lot of foreing capital.

That kind of position was sound only when the product of the earth was pretty much all that was producted and didn't have to rely on foreing trade.
He does believe that in the sense that there are only win-lose agreements and to be on the winner side you need to have all the power to dictate and force the other losing side to sign the treaty. Problem is neither China nor Iran nor North Korea will just accept being "losers" and compile to every demand the USA gives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
It's not just that.

From the Christian side there's also fear of the "One World Government" or "New World Order"
and this is not a niche thing. End time prophecies are a core belief among many Evangelicals.

Yes, Trump isn't religious, but his Evangelical base are.
Israel also knows about this, and is taking advantage of Evangelist lobbying.
What's funny is how the FBI are like mostly white, conservative men who nearly all vote reps as well, you know, "law and order"-party, yet now the reps and Trump are busy as hell to wreck the FBI's reputation and disregard them as "witch hunt" and nothing else. A government trying to destroy his own institutions is scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Trump can't seem to make up his mind. First he says he's going to meet Kim, now he doesn't.
He changes his mind every 24 hours, no surprise there.
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Old 2018-05-23, 06:14   Link #1705
Ayato_kanzaki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
Trump can't seem to make up his mind. First he says he's going to meet Kim, now he doesn't.
He first tought that Kim was just going to roll over and give up his nukes for a few things token concessions, and that he was going to get out of the meeting with a peace agreement he could tout as a major win.

Then Trump tore down the Iran deal, despite Iran sticking to it.

So Kim told the world that the meeting might not happen after all (and who could blame him? If Trump decide later to renegociate or just ignore his part of the deal, Kim is f-cked).

That is, of course, assuming that Kim is honest in negociating and not trying to gain time or put someone else like Iran in Trump's crosshairs, who must be desesperate for any kind of diversion.

So, now Trump is worried that he might go in and get out empty-handed, ans that would be humiliation for him.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — President Trump, increasingly concerned that his summit meeting in Singapore next month with North Korea’s leader could turn into a political embarrassment, has begun pressing his aides and allies about whether he should take the risk of proceeding with a historic meeting that he had leapt into accepting, according to administration and foreign officials.

Mr. Trump was both surprised and angered by a statement issued on Wednesday by the North’s chief nuclear negotiator, who declared that the country would never trade away its nuclear weapons capability in exchange for economic aid, administration officials said. The statement, while a highly familiar tactic by the North, represented a jarring shift in tone after weeks of conciliatory gestures.

On Thursday and Friday, Mr. Trump peppered aides with questions about the wisdom of proceeding, and on Saturday night he called President Moon Jae-in of South Korea to ask why the North’s public statement seemed to contradict the private assurances that Mr. Moon had conveyed after he met Kim Jong-un, the 35-year-old dictator of the North, at the Demilitarized Zone in late April.

The president’s conversation with Mr. Moon, which was first reported by The Washington Post, came just three days before the South Korean leader was scheduled to arrive in Washington to meet with Mr. Trump on Tuesday. It was a sign of Mr. Trump’s discomfort, some officials speculated, that he could not wait to discuss the issue until Mr. Moon arrived for his meetings here, though there is no indication that the president is considering pulling out of the North Korea talks.

Mr. Trump’s aides have grown concerned that the president — who has said that “everyone thinks” he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts — has signaled that he wants the summit meeting too much. The aides also worry that Mr. Kim, sensing the president’s eagerness, is prepared to offer assurances that will fade over time.

Moreover, Mr. Trump’s decision this month to withdraw from the 2015 Iran nuclear deal raises the stakes for the North Korea negotiation. If he emerges with anything less than what President Barack Obama got, which in Iran included the verified shipment of 97 percent of all nuclear material out of the country, it will be hard for Mr. Trump to convince anyone other than his base that the negotiation was a success.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/20/u...a-nuclear.html


The president who think he deserves a Peace Prize won't risk bruising his ego to obtain actual peace.
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Old 2018-05-23, 10:21   Link #1706
SeijiSensei
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Trump would never have cared about a Nobel if Obama hadn't won one. Like in so many ways -- the PTT, the JCPOA with Iran, DACA, Obamacare, civil-rights prosecutions, etc., etc. -- it all goes back to that one night in 2011 when Barack Obama embarrassed Trump at the White House Correspondents Dinner. I guess Trump thought he could just smear Obama with his "birther" campaign and suffer no push-back. Trump's whole career has been marked with a deep streak of vengeance against supposed enemies and people he dislikes. See., e.g, the "Central Park Five."
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Old 2018-05-23, 15:35   Link #1707
mangamuscle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayato_kanzaki View Post
the president — who has said that “everyone thinks” he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts
This is a bad joke. Trump is no different from those elderly men that go to africa to "hunt a lion" which means a guide will track and hunt the animal and beat if half to death, then as it lies on the ground, the old man will come with a gun and deal the killing blow. ATM Pompeo is sweating bullets because he is the one negotiating the deal, trump would just go to singapour to sing it and take some photos with kim. You can bet this will be another "nothing burger" cooked by the trump administration.
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Old 2018-05-24, 03:28   Link #1708
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Trump would never have cared about a Nobel if Obama hadn't won one. Like in so many ways -- the PTT, the JCPOA with Iran, DACA, Obamacare, civil-rights prosecutions, etc., etc. -- it all goes back to that one night in 2011 when Barack Obama embarrassed Trump at the White House Correspondents Dinner. I guess Trump thought he could just smear Obama with his "birther" campaign and suffer no push-back. Trump's whole career has been marked with a deep streak of vengeance against supposed enemies and people he dislikes. See., e.g, the "Central Park Five."
I agree on all of it. Petty revenge seems to be the only reason he is willing to kick back USA back to the 1950s or even antebellum if that means undoing everything done by those he hold a grudge against, the fact that the far right enables and feels enabled by him is not helping. Macron seems to be one of the few people who can still talk with him, but to bring him back to reason? That's something yet to be seen. Putin just sees in him a useful idiot he can use to play 4d chess in the Middle East.
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Old 2018-05-24, 09:25   Link #1709
Ayato_kanzaki
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And in a move that will surprise no one, Trump just cancelled the meeting with North Korea.

He seized the occasion to boast about his "massive" and "powerfull" nuclear arsenal while dodging a mere face-to-face conversation...
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Old 2018-05-24, 10:21   Link #1710
James Rye
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Wow, biiiiig surprise there. And here I thought Trump would bring world peace and wealth for everyone. *eye roll*
Though after what Bolton, Pompeo and Trump all said to Kim that they would treat NK like Libya (and we all know how that ended for that guy in charge) it is no wonder that Kim and his goons weren't keen on surrendering their weapons.

The one I really pity is Moon, that poor guy worked so hard for this and Trump is like "nope, not if this doesn't get me the deal I want AND a peace noble price.". <.<
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Old 2018-05-24, 10:28   Link #1711
Ayato_kanzaki
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From the looks of it, Moon wasn't even warned about the summit being called off before it became public. The SK governement is having an emergency midnight session about this.
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Old 2018-05-24, 10:51   Link #1712
James Rye
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Originally Posted by Ayato_kanzaki View Post
From the looks of it, Moon wasn't even warned about the summit being called off before it became public. The SK governement is having an emergency midnight session about this.
Well, THAT sucks double time and is really rude. That guy was working his ass off for that summit to even begin and it was just called off because Trump saw no chance to get a quick deal. Again, poor guy.
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Old 2018-05-24, 15:38   Link #1713
SeijiSensei
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Moon's not going to give up. And one observer I heard today suggested the Chinese pushed Kim to return to a more aggressive posture because they felt they were losing a place at the table. The Koreans must be asking themselves what the US brings to the process at this point other than bluster or threats to kill millions of Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, and Americans. The winners here are the Chinese who continue to take the long view about relations along the Pacific rim. I don't see them backing away from their new bases in the South China Sea anytime soon.
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Old 2018-05-24, 15:57   Link #1714
mangamuscle
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The king has no clothes, or to be precise, no "art of the deal" skills. China and NK are playing bad cop/worst cop with the usa. But you can bet that now the kiddie gloves are off, the USA will get though .... with south korea, that free trade agreement that obama signed is now a "dead man walking". Before this year is over, trump will announce he is pulling out from said agreement.
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Old 2018-05-24, 16:14   Link #1715
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
The king has no clothes, or to be precise, no "art of the deal" skills. China and NK are playing bad cop/worst cop with the usa. But you can bet that now the kiddie gloves are off, the USA will get though .... with south korea, that free trade agreement that obama signed is now a "dead man walking". Before this year is over, trump will announce he is pulling out from said agreement.
Obama signed it. That already put it on Trump's firing squad, regardless of any other context.
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Old 2018-05-24, 16:30   Link #1716
OH&S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayato_kanzaki View Post
And in a move that will surprise no one, Trump just cancelled the meeting with North Korea.
Absolutely no surprise. The shit show continues...
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Old 2018-05-24, 16:54   Link #1717
SeijiSensei
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By the way, should you want to purchase one of those commemorative coins minted to celebrate the now-defunct summit, it's currently on sale as a "Deal of the Day" at just $19.95, down from $24.95. "Allow two months."

The server has been very busy all day, so you might need to make a couple of attempts to connect.

https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/p...summitcoin.htm

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Old 2018-05-24, 17:28   Link #1718
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Moon's not going to give up. And one observer I heard today suggested the Chinese pushed Kim to return to a more aggressive posture because they felt they were losing a place at the table. The Koreans must be asking themselves what the US brings to the process at this point other than bluster or threats to kill millions of Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, and Americans. The winners here are the Chinese who continue to take the long view about relations along the Pacific rim. I don't see them backing away from their new bases in the South China Sea anytime soon.
You know, all that talk from Trump about China being the big boogeyman, it's kind of ironic when China might be rising to a better position in Asia just because of Trump's own doing (and childish tantrums).
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Old 2018-05-24, 17:46   Link #1719
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Obama signed it. That already put it on Trump's firing squad, regardless of any other context.
Context is key. Trump needed SK to make to negotiations with NK. At best at the summit in singapore they would sign a "letter of intent" and negotiations would take months and years (see Iran deal as an example). But now that they no longer need a key ally since negotiations will not move further than NK dismantling their test facilities (so that they can rebuilt them bigger and better), SK will be used to test if trump can terminate a free trade agreement without congress approval.
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Old 2018-05-27, 15:00   Link #1720
Ayato_kanzaki
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
You know, all that talk from Trump about China being the big boogeyman, it's kind of ironic when China might be rising to a better position in Asia just because of Trump's own doing (and childish tantrums).
The Chinese are making huge gains by profiting from the US's . Among other things, they're really pushing the construction and weaponisation of artificial islands to claim most of the China Sea as their turf, confident the the US lack the ball to confront them over it, and the other players are too small to do anything but protest.

Europe is making more modest gains, too, by being more united, and gaining political influence as a reliable partner.

Trump has proven many times that he's extremely scared of confrontations.
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