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Old 2018-05-20, 19:47   Link #3161
HtwoN
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Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
no point in repeating what has been said already, but i'm dying to know more about Nana. i definitely think she'll play a big role in the next two eps.
Oh well, it's pretty obvious that Nana and Hachi will help the children escape.
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Old 2018-05-21, 00:17   Link #3162
wissenschaft
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I only started watching this show yesterday and I've already watched up to episode 10. I'm honestly surprised I like this show so much. No, correction, I love this show. Pretty shocking since I didn't think I'd like it but friends pestered me into watching it. Also, I love how I have no idea where this story is going. That puts a lot of pressure on the big reveals but to me there hasn't been a bad episode yet. I am watching the English dubs though and thats coming out a little slower than the subs but the voice work is really well done.

Oh and I NEED to get the OST for this show. All the songs are amazing.

Someone said this show was star diver meets eva. Which sounds nuts but watching the show I can see where it comes form.
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Old 2018-05-21, 16:37   Link #3163
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Well, I'm caught up with the English dub (up to ep 15) and WOW, so much to talk about and I missed it all. At least I'll see the end more or less with everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Stark700 View Post
I'm surprised no one made this connection already (correct me if I'm mistaken, this thread is too big lol) but 002 reminds me of another certain dual horned girl that I love:



A "monster" girl experimented on to become a weapon and her struggle between her nihilist monster side and her more "human" side that yearned to rekindle a love from childhood. The dissonance of two opposite sides to the character, a sweet carefree girl and callous violent monster. Its not an exact parallel between 002 and Lucy, but 002 story arc still reminded me of Elfen Lied. Its like deja vu, I just knew I've seen this story before. lol
Spoiler:


Ep14:

I'm shocked by all the hate directed at poor Ichigo, the girl did nothing wrong. She can't read minds, she doesn't know the history between 002 and Hiro. She can only go by 002's actions and that girl just tried to kill/turn into a monster Hiro. It makes perfect sense to want to keep the two separate. Hiro is suicidally addicted to piloting and to 002. He'd happy throw away his life for one last ride. Honestly, Ichigo should have slap the heck out of him rather than kiss. But we know Ichigo is easy overcome by her emotions for Hiro (which we've seen several times from her) so the kiss was completely in character for her.

Ep 15: WOW. Just wow. So much happened. See, Ichigo wasn't some evil thot and proof of that comes the very next episode. Sigh, this fanbase. *shakes head. Ichigo finally sees whats on Hiros mind. Thats theres just room for one girl in his heart and its not her. Its shown she also worries about 002 but was being too proud/stubborn to admit it. Gorro is a true bro now and forever. The hero and heroine reunite and the power of love wins the day!


Gosh, I love this show. Every little detail in the show is relveant because they often hide hints of future events. I'm going to have to binge-watch this show again once its over. ITS SOOO GOOD. Maybe this is just the ultimate kryptonite for me? Mecha + teen drama? Pure crack. Kind of like Eureka Seven in that regard. I'm a sucker for these kinds of animes.
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Old 2018-05-21, 18:22   Link #3164
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I recall the comparison with Lucy being made, but not who made it.

Mecha + teen drama seems to be a combination that works with a lot of people, not just you. If you listed the anime series that generated the highest amount of discussion these past ten years, I'm pretty sure you'd find quite a few series with these elements near the top. The fact it's an anime original work and not an adaptation is probably an important factor too.
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Old 2018-05-22, 06:45   Link #3165
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I can't help but question Hiro in this episode. It's very strange that he spurred on Mitsuru and Koko to have a marriage, but didn't suggest to hold a double marriage. Then there's that he's hid his horns too. I find his reactions to the crackdown weird as well. Didn't he know what was going to happen? He looks so surprised to all of this.
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Old 2018-05-22, 07:33   Link #3166
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Originally Posted by Norn View Post
I can't help but question Hiro in this episode. It's very strange that he spurred on Mitsuru and Koko to have a marriage, but didn't suggest to hold a double marriage. Then there's that he's hid his horns too. I find his reactions to the crackdown weird as well. Didn't he know what was going to happen? He looks so surprised to all of this.
Hiro used mitsuru and kokoro to see if the adults and papa were the same as when he tried to run away with 02, as the director said in the newtype interview, "hiro is not a normal protagonist".. let me see if i can get the direct quotes.
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Old 2018-05-22, 08:43   Link #3167
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Aw, that's sad. But looks like they weren't able to change all memories and feelings. Nana as well still recalls the grief and rage over losing her loved one in the war even after all those years. Hachi probably loved her back then but forgot about it due the re-indoctrination though he still seems to care about her and the kids in some way.

But boy, Kokoro was so straight-foward with Mitsuru and when it came down she could count on him to lean on her and they probably did much more leaning on in bed. Kids those days, am I right? XD

I liked how the Klaxosaurus princess called the ambassadors "Human wanna-be's". They abandoned so much of their humanity and now they want to get rid of their bodies too.

Also the fever for Goro and Ikuno? Man, please don't tell me they just gonna let them drop dead due the child fever, that would suck...
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Old 2018-05-22, 14:15   Link #3168
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Old 2018-05-22, 17:02   Link #3169
wissenschaft
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@EroKing thanks for filling this thread will awesome fanart. I got my new avatar from one of your posts. Wow, I haven't changed avatars since Madoka Magica. Thats about 7 years ago. You'll always be in my heart, Mami. Well. As much as a fictional girl can be. lol

So I couldn't help myself and caught up with the anime with subs. The more I watch this show the more I realize that despite all the crazy anime tropes involved, in the background is a very dark dystopian future. A somewhat subtle reflection of what its liked to live under a totalitarian regime. The kids in this show live in a futuristic north korea. Watching these kids is like watching interviews from escapees from north korea. Its disturbing how thoroughly their society is brainwashed. Literally, even their thoughts and memories are policed, rewritten and controlled. Its like watching a North Korean family that thinks this is just how life is, alls right in the world. Really puts a chill down your spine. Its even worst too since these are kids and the audience knows more about whats going on, even through guessing, than the kids.

Nine alpha's speech about how humanity had been perfected by removing useless stuff like gender and emotion was especially disturbing. Without any of that, are we really human anymore? Now we know APE's goal is pretty standard since Eva. Get rid of their bodies and ascend to some higher state of being. But without our biology, which is where our gender and emotions come from, are we really human anymore? As Ikuno pointed out, as terrible as unrequited love can be, stripping yourself of gender or painful emotions would eliminate what makes you who you are. Suffering (and overcoming it) is a natural part of being a human. Are we really human anymore without suffering? Wouldn't some mythical utopia that removes all suffering also strip us of our humanity?

Furthermore, its quite horrid that APE denys humans the ability to reproduce. Talk about violating the most basic human right anyone has. The scene with Kokoro crying in Mitsuru arms, asking why aren't they allowed to have children was pretty heartbreaking.

Some great character moments as well. Ichigo consoling Ikuno, recognizing her own suffering in her teammate. They may never be lovers but that must be a big weight off Ikuno shoulders. Learning to get over over a hopeless crush is part of growing up. Futoshi wanting to be priest for the wedding. He might not be quite over his crush but he wanted to give his blessing the couple regardless. That was quite sweet. Mitsuru finally being able to drop his tough guy act, become friends with Hiro again and find love only to have his memories altered is just cruel emotional roller coaster. damn this show. Death Flags with signs the childern are aging. Miku's hair gaining a bit of grey. Oh god. Somebody tell me this anime isn't headed for a Tomino ending? I'm going to both heartbroken and pissed off if it does. Whether I can accept it depends on how well written it is but for theres still hope for a happy ending.

Finally Zero Two, wow. Watch this show has shown so many different aspects of this girl. She really does steal the show. The early episodes show her prideful, distant, filled with confidence that bleed into arrogant, and a disdain for human life. Mid way through the show shes let into squad 13 and starts to open up some. But she still doesn't understand what it means to socialize with humans. She butts heads with squad 13 as stands part with Hiro for the most part. She then starts to change into more a monster which changes her mood deeply. She becomes cold and distant even to Hiro. She still doesn't quite trust him to tell him how she feels and what she fears. This is all resolved quite neatly with episode 15.

Now, we see an entirely different side of Zero Two, like shes a different girl entirely. She cheerful, playful, gets along with and makes friends with the other girls in the squad. Its like she finally is a human girl. She finally able to sit down with Hiro and tell him what shes wanted to say to him back when she was a little demon girl that couldn't speak. Indecently, this is also a death flag. lol

God, how many death flags does this show go through?

Edit: Oh yeah, Nana and Hachi got some development at last. As many guessed, both of them were former pilots that went through re-indoctrination. What interesting is that while Hachi claims to have no emotion, he still feels an urge to comfort the childern and yet knows he can't. Or not as well as Nana could. It was quite sad to see Nana cureled up in her pirision cell. I hope she gets out. This whole reveal was clearly meant to parrarel with what happens with Kokoro and Mitsuru.

Anyway, in short, I think this show has a lot more depth than most people give it credit for.
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Old 2018-05-22, 18:27   Link #3170
Gan_HOPE326
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Originally Posted by wissenschaft View Post
Nine alpha's speech about how humanity had been perfected by removing useless stuff like gender and emotion was especially disturbing. Without any of that, are we really human anymore? Now we know APE's goal is pretty standard since Eva. Get rid of their bodies and ascend to some higher state of being. But without our biology, which is where our gender and emotions come from, are we really human anymore? As Ikuno pointed out, as terrible as unrequited love can be, stripping yourself of gender or painful emotions would eliminate what makes you who you are. Suffering (and overcoming it) is a natural part of being a human. Are we really human anymore without suffering? Wouldn't some mythical utopia that removes all suffering also strip us of our humanity?
Honestly, for once I'd like to see a story that answers: yeah, why not, we probably would. I mean, we would be different, but then again, so we are now very different from our ancestors who lived in caves. It's pretty cliché to have the villains be the ones who pursue some objective of this sort, and of course do so without any scruple. APE are villains, but that's because they go about doing what they want in horrible ways. If there was a group of humans who freely chose to try and transcend their humanity transforming into some immaterial kind of creature without harming anyone else, they'd still be humans. You could have a story where the roles are flipped, in fact, and the "they're not even human any more!" crowd is the one that oppresses and kills the others, exactly because of this dehumanisation of those who are different.
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Old 2018-05-22, 19:25   Link #3171
wissenschaft
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Actually, we are not really much different from our ancestors. Not even cave men. The average intelligence of humanity hasn't change since our cave man days. Our written knowledge is whats expanded. But as far as human emotions go, reasons for violence and work and why we cooperate with each other haven't changed at all. In evolutionary terms, the time between our cave men days and modern day is little more than a blink of the eye.

It also ignores the point I was making. Without hardship and the growth and change that inspires in our personalities would we be the same person? Would we even be human in a world without hardship? I think the show is giving us an answer and thats an definitive no. Now whether you agree with that or not, thats a different matter.
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Old 2018-05-23, 01:46   Link #3172
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Actually, we are not really much different from our ancestors. Not even cave men. The average intelligence of humanity hasn't change since our cave man days. Our written knowledge is whats expanded. But as far as human emotions go, reasons for violence and work and why we cooperate with each other haven't changed at all. In evolutionary terms, the time between our cave men days and modern day is little more than a blink of the eye.

Our DNA hasn't changed. But even with the same base brain, we have gotten smarter, because having more to train our brain on makes it smarter. Not only that, better living conditions make you smarter, because you're better fed, better rested, have more time to study or do other things that cultivate your brain.

So biologically we are pretty much the same, but the "nurture" part is so different, it creates pretty different people.

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It also ignores the point I was making. Without hardship and the growth and change that inspires in our personalities would we be the same person? Would we even be human in a world without hardship? I think the show is giving us an answer and thats an definitive no. Now whether you agree with that or not, thats a different matter.
There's no reason to believe that the sort of transcendence APE pursues would remove all hardship or growth. It would remove some forms of it, as opposed to others. Today I am working to rewrite in depth a certain module of a certain Python library. My hunter-gatherer ancestors would not even begin to comprehend what that means. But both of us had a job to do and pursued it with their own skills. In addition, consider how many hardships we have removed already from our lives. When it comes to these topics, it always turns out that, conveniently, the famous things that "make us human" are just the ones that we've never changed - as opposed to the ones that we've completely revolutionised. Maybe we stopped being human when we settled and begun to grow crops? Or when we stopped relying on manual labour for everything and put machines to do our jobs? Or when we stopped relying on mental labour for everything and put machines to do some of our jobs there too? Could it be that it was the risk of dying eaten by a tiger that made us human, or that of dying of the smallpox? Perhaps the real moment when we completely, utterly betrayed everything that every living been had ever been until then was when we mastered fire.

You see what I mean? Human history is a continuous thread of changes. At any point you can find people who thought that their condition was "the right one" - giving what came before for granted, and considering what would come in the future either impossible or nigh heretical. Then the future comes, people adapt to it, and it all repeats. "Being human" doesn't mean that much, it's just a loose expression for a collection of experiences. Every human's experience is wildly different anyway. What matters are thinking, sentient individuals. If one of said individuals, of their own volition, underwent changes that transform their body into something different, even something you wouldn't call "human" any more biologically speaking, that wouldn't in itself diminish their dignity or make them less worth of consideration. It's the same situation as meeting an alien, they could be very different from us but if they're still thinking beings we should still treat them as people.

Also, there's no objective reason why "being human" should be an absolute good. It comes with good and bad points. If trying to improve on the bad points means not counting as "being human" any more, why would that be such a negative thing?
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Old 2018-05-23, 02:00   Link #3173
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Sigh, I guess I'm not conveying what I'm trying to express clearly. All people are shaped by their experience, both pleasant events and hardships. If you eliminate all hardship completely from life, its much like never exercising or studying anything ever (which are both types of hardships if you think about it), your body/mind is going to waste away. Beyond that your personality will be stunted much the same as some ones who lives a "sheltered" life, as the phrase goes. The show seems to be conveying the message that these personal trials that shape our personality are quite key to shaping who we are and doing away with any hardship would leave us like the citizens in the city. As 02 puts it, the city is lifeless. Its the reason so much of the show after the first 6 episodes of action has been focus almost entirely on the personal interactions of squad 13, their trials to over come hardships and how that makes them grow as people.

Let me make clear, I'm not saying that people should just except misery in their lives or never try to reduce hardships. But rather the extremely totalitarian society in this show, thats striping all free will from whats left of humans is effective stripping them of their humanity, reducing them to whats basically cannon fodder robots. And thats not only evil, its very cruel as well.

Of course, maybe you understand what I'm saying and just disagree. Which is fine.

"Our DNA hasn't changed. But even with the same base brain, we have gotten smarter, because having more to train our brain on makes it smarter."

Theres a difference between the IQ and knowledge base a person has. But I'm probably being nitpicky for pointing this out.

Edit: On an unrelated note. The questions by some that this show is pushing some heteronormative agenda are missing the point. The focus on Kokoro interests on how babies are made is a curiosity that children experience naturally. It would be rather odd if none of the kids expressed any interest in babies at all. I know the moment that she found that book that it wouldn't end well for her. Why? Because she lives in a horrifying totalitarian regime that denies humans their basic right to reproduce. And really, the torment it caused her to learn that she would never be allowed to have children was the whole point of this. Clearly its time for the kids to rebel and to add insult to injury we got the brainwashing in the latest episode. The shows not trying to say that the only legitimate relationship is between a man and woman but rather that such a bond is natural and beneficial for our race. That may sound very odd and unnecessary to point out from our perspective. But remember, humans don't mate anymore in this setting. So whats a mundane statement to us is a profound, disturbing, and revolutionary idea within the setting.
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Old 2018-05-23, 02:32   Link #3174
Gan_HOPE326
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Originally Posted by wissenschaft View Post
Of course, maybe you understand what I'm saying and just disagree. Which is fine.

"Our DNA hasn't changed. But even with the same base brain, we have gotten smarter, because having more to train our brain on makes it smarter."

Theres a difference between the IQ and knowledge base a person has. But I'm probably being nitpicky for pointing this out.
I'm not talking about knowledge; I'm talking about IQ. IQ grows statistically in time. The two things aren't disentangled, knowledge or different tools to interact with are like training equipment for your brain, so the more you have, the more you can develop its potential.

And you're mixing up different aspects of what APE is doing. We don't know for sure the details, but let's assume that they aim at transcending human bodies. The "removing people's free will" has nothing to do with that: it's simply a consequence of them being tyrannical assholes. Let's suppose that I could have a way to upload my consciousness to a machine or something like that, thus abandoning the need for a body. If I could do that, would that remove all hardships? Well, no. Machines would still need to be maintained. So effectively I would have a body, the machine I'm uploaded into, it would just be a more resilient one. All intellectual problems would remain. I wouldn't instantly acquire all knowledge of the universe. Learning would still be a need. Understanding things would still be a need. I could still interact with other humans, both fleshy and not. I would still have emotions, because those too are the result of brain structures, and any decent simulation of a human brain would reproduce them. I would merely not be affected any more by chemicals arbitrarily introduced into my brain from outside (so, for example, I couldn't get drunk, or perhaps horny either). It'd be different, and whether it'd be better or worse is of course subjective. Which is why it'd be unethical to force this change on people; but it would also be unethical to prevent people from undertaking it if they want to and it's available, or to start treating them as not-people-anymore as soon as they became something different from us.
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Old 2018-05-23, 03:21   Link #3175
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I'm not talking about knowledge; I'm talking about IQ. IQ grows statistically in time. The two things aren't disentangled, knowledge or different tools to interact with are like training equipment for your brain, so the more you have, the more you can develop its potential.

And you're mixing up different aspects of what APE is doing. We don't know for sure the details, but let's assume that they aim at transcending human bodies. The "removing people's free will" has nothing to do with that: it's simply a consequence of them being tyrannical assholes. Let's suppose that I could have a way to upload my consciousness to a machine or something like that, thus abandoning the need for a body. If I could do that, would that remove all hardships? Well, no. Machines would still need to be maintained. So effectively I would have a body, the machine I'm uploaded into, it would just be a more resilient one. All intellectual problems would remain. I wouldn't instantly acquire all knowledge of the universe. Learning would still be a need. Understanding things would still be a need. I could still interact with other humans, both fleshy and not. I would still have emotions, because those too are the result of brain structures, and any decent simulation of a human brain would reproduce them. I would merely not be affected any more by chemicals arbitrarily introduced into my brain from outside (so, for example, I couldn't get drunk, or perhaps horny either). It'd be different, and whether it'd be better or worse is of course subjective. Which is why it'd be unethical to force this change on people; but it would also be unethical to prevent people from undertaking it if they want to and it's available, or to start treating them as not-people-anymore as soon as they became something different from us.
wow you are taking thinks to let's say better just stop that, but to be clear the APE clear want to wipe emotions and anything related to it, because from a "logic standpoint" they where useless, and without a "real brains" and a proper system to simulate emotions you really lose it and become pretty much a "machine".

Just remember the jhonny deep movie where his "mind was instaled in a machine, could be pratically the same, as the time pass he start to lose "his humanity" and remains only his "logical side", that is what APE is aiming" by removing the body, they want "create a new perfect" human, which don't age, don't get sick, don't need to eat, sleep, drink, reproduce, which can live forever as a "machine" focusing only in being "efficient" to the "society, you know the "japanese way of life" lol , just a joke, but that is the idea of a "perfect thing" and losing it means losing your humanity, cuz being human is about being "true alive' to have a soul to have emotions to be able to make choices and that things, to be able to choose love peoples from different gender or same gender, this is why that logic don't work, because it's not "simple like that" to create machines which can "perfect reproduce a "human soul" with emotions" and could still take many years, decades, centures before we can reach that, because specially from a "machine standpoint' emotions and being alive is not really "effective".

APE plans is clear to create a perfect "hive world" where everyone will be linked free from the "freewill" and emotions" and anything which make mankind being that "crap race we are".
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Old 2018-05-23, 03:47   Link #3176
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wow you are taking thinks to let's say better just stop that, but to be clear the APE clear want to wipe emotions and anything related to it, because from a "logic standpoint" they where useless, and without a "real brains" and a proper system to simulate emotions you really lose it and become pretty much a "machine".

Just remember the jhonny deep movie where his "mind was instaled in a machine, could be pratically the same, as the time pass he start to lose "his humanity" and remains only his "logical side", that is what APE is aiming" by removing the body, they want "create a new perfect" human, which don't age, don't get sick, don't need to eat, sleep, drink, reproduce, which can live forever as a "machine" focusing only in being "efficient" to the "society, you know the "japanese way of life" lol , just a joke, but that is the idea of a "perfect thing" and losing it means losing your humanity, cuz being human is about being "true alive' to have a soul to have emotions to be able to make choices and that things, to be able to choose love peoples from different gender or same gender, this is why that logic don't work, because it's not "simple like that" to create machines which can "perfect reproduce a "human soul" with emotions" and could still take many years, decades, centures before we can reach that, because specially from a "machine standpoint' emotions and being alive is not really "effective".

APE plans is clear to create a perfect "hive world" where everyone will be linked free from the "freewill" and emotions" and anything which make mankind being that "crap race we are".
We don't really know what APE wants, but all you're taking as evidence for your point of view is more movies and fiction. And that's exactly what I'm complaining about: that movies and fiction don't portray this topic scientifically at all. For example, "a machine can have no emotions" is pure nonsense. A modern computer doesn't have emotions the way bacteria don't have emotions: they're too simple for that. A sufficiently smart and complex AI could and probably would have emotions just like us. Emotions are just our brain's way to express hardwired likes/dislikes of things.
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Old 2018-05-23, 09:18   Link #3177
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We don't really know what APE wants, but all you're taking as evidence for your point of view is more movies and fiction. And that's exactly what I'm complaining about: that movies and fiction don't portray this topic scientifically at all. For example, "a machine can have no emotions" is pure nonsense. A modern computer doesn't have emotions the way bacteria don't have emotions: they're too simple for that. A sufficiently smart and complex AI could and probably would have emotions just like us. Emotions are just our brain's way to express hardwired likes/dislikes of things.
not really i'm taking too studies and all currently info and so far all the scientists working on AI still agree with still a "too far away dream make a AI who can have "real emotions", because it's very complex to do it for now and for a good ammount of time.

And emotions don't have onlyy "brains" heart also had some contribruiton, it's not that simple "teach a machine to have emotions if you can't proper reproduce all steps of it, you have too many variables for it and many of them even we humans can't proper understand..

Another problem is which "emotions" they are "mechanical process from the body, trying to "transfer" consciousness from a living body to a "machine" is just passing "memories", you need create a "proper artificial body which is able to "perfect reproduce all the "process needed to work on emotions which is what make us "special", or is how our brains and body process and use that memories, that is what make a really hard task
For now while not probably "impossive to do" still a too far away and almost pipe dream to do, specially because we still could not "proper map human brains" to be able to "reproduce it.
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Old 2018-05-23, 11:18   Link #3178
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not really i'm taking too studies and all currently info and so far all the scientists working on AI still agree with still a "too far away dream make a AI who can have "real emotions", because it's very complex to do it for now and for a good ammount of time.

And emotions don't have onlyy "brains" heart also had some contribruiton, it's not that simple "teach a machine to have emotions if you can't proper reproduce all steps of it, you have too many variables for it and many of them even we humans can't proper understand..

Another problem is which "emotions" they are "mechanical process from the body, trying to "transfer" consciousness from a living body to a "machine" is just passing "memories", you need create a "proper artificial body which is able to "perfect reproduce all the "process needed to work on emotions which is what make us "special", or is how our brains and body process and use that memories, that is what make a really hard task
For now while not probably "impossive to do" still a too far away and almost pipe dream to do, specially because we still could not "proper map human brains" to be able to "reproduce it.
Well, obviously it's not possible at the current state of technology, but neither is building giant robots that fight powered by teenage horniness. What's your point? It's sci-fi, it's based on the hypothesis that sufficiently advanced technology exists to do those things. I'm talking in terms of "what if", I know it's not going to happen today or tomorrow.

Emotions totally have only brains. That is literally where 100% of your thinking goes on. The heart is just a pump, full stop. You can argue that the rest of the body produces hormones and stuff, but in the end, the important part is when they arrive at the brain and interact with nervous receptors. So if you were to simulate said receptors, you could just simulate the arrival of a molecule of adrenaline without a real body producing adrenaline.

There's some ideas concerning "embodied consciousness", but frankly I find them very unconvincing. At least for humans, whose neurons are mostly concentrated in the brain. There's an interesting book I just read on octopi which touches on this topic, since octopi actually have a more disseminated nervous system, with each of their arms "thinking" independently when it comes to solving small problems and the central brain coordinating them all.
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Old 2018-05-23, 11:33   Link #3179
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
Well, obviously it's not possible at the current state of technology, but neither is building giant robots that fight powered by teenage horniness. What's your point? It's sci-fi, it's based on the hypothesis that sufficiently advanced technology exists to do those things. I'm talking in terms of "what if", I know it's not going to happen today or tomorrow.

Emotions totally have only brains. That is literally where 100% of your thinking goes on. The heart is just a pump, full stop. You can argue that the rest of the body produces hormones and stuff, but in the end, the important part is when they arrive at the brain and interact with nervous receptors. So if you were to simulate said receptors, you could just simulate the arrival of a molecule of adrenaline without a real body producing adrenaline.

There's some ideas concerning "embodied consciousness", but frankly I find them very unconvincing. At least for humans, whose neurons are mostly concentrated in the brain. There's an interesting book I just read on octopi which touches on this topic, since octopi actually have a more disseminated nervous system, with each of their arms "thinking" independently when it comes to solving small problems and the central brain coordinating them all.
they don't had that techonology otherwise the "brainwash" could not fail and they are aware of it's fail, it's exactly because they don't have that tech which they want to get riddle of it.

And to be honest is more easy to "make a mech" than create a perfect "AI" which can emulate a human, because all you need to do is create a "robot" operated by humans, take much less effort do it, just look at nowadays robotic and drones, again you are comparing two totally different things where one just need to "keep evolving what we already knew and the other we need to "first learn" how everything work before we can try to replicate it.

The level of technology need to do what you want is something really too far way for mankind which pretty much take at last "some centuries before we can get something really close to it.

And again even if they where able to do you not gonna be really human anymore but rater a new race, because what we are is what make us humans, in the same way what a dog is what make then dogs, that is how "races are", what they will are doing is just create a new race.
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Old 2018-05-23, 11:56   Link #3180
Magewolf
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If they can do full consciousness uploads they have to be able to simulate emotions as well because they are an important part of how we think. If they can not emulate emotions then I doubt they could even get what we would think of as a self aware system out of an upload.

The anti-emotion thing seems to be mostly based on the leadership seeing emotions as "icky" and hard to control as opposed to any technological barrier.
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